Hey, nothing agaisnt the Christians who are cool and let other people drink to their heart's content.
It's in history that they were behind the PROHIBITION, and we know full well that they are behind the War on Drugs for the same reason: They are MORALIZING, which brings any amount of HYPOCRISY, VIOLENCE AND EVEN IMMORALITY to society.
But hey, who cares if they have it their way. The LIVE AND LET LIVE philosophy scares them. People may stop going to churches praying for Jesus coming to get them out of the misery and sin.
I say the Devil is loose in this world. Well, not a real mean Devil, but you know what I mean...
HOW DO YOU RATE THEM?
a) They are moralizing but not very moral b) They practice what they preach c) The devil is in the PROHIBITION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give them a banana! Then watch if they grab it like a monkey.
On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 11:05 am, KingOfTheApes <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> > > The sheep just GO WITH THE FLOW.
> Yes, however, you seem to be attempting to paint *all* believers with > the same brush, that of the anti-science fundy cretiniod loon. That > is not a true picture. Some are, some are not.
Where are the Christians standing up against the STUPID, CRIMINAL prohibition of drugs?
Or they don't hear about all the prison overpopulation and the war in Mexico? Maybe they don't want to hear. ;)
> Hey, nothing agaisnt the Christians who are cool and let other people > drink to their heart's content.
> It's in history that they were behind the PROHIBITION, and we know > full well that they are behind the War on Drugs for the same reason: > They are MORALIZING, which brings any amount of HYPOCRISY, VIOLENCE > AND EVEN IMMORALITY to society.
> But hey, who cares if they have it their way. The LIVE AND LET LIVE > philosophy scares them. People may stop going to churches praying for > Jesus coming to get them out of the misery and sin.
> I say the Devil is loose in this world. Well, not a real mean Devil, > but you know what I mean...
> HOW DO YOU RATE THEM?
> a) They are moralizing but not very moral > b) They practice what they preach > c) The devil is in the PROHIBITION
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give them a banana! > Then watch if they grab it like a monkey.
ComandanteBanana wrote: > Boikat wrote: > > Yes, however, you seem to be attempting to paint *all* believers with > > the same brush, that of the anti-science fundy cretiniod loon. That > > is not a true picture. Some are, some are not. > Where are the Christians standing up against the STUPID, CRIMINAL > prohibition of drugs?
Wow, the whole "paint *all* believers with the same brush" concept just flies right over some peoples' heads.
> Or they don't hear about all the prison overpopulation and the war in > Mexico? Maybe they don't want to hear. ;)
My experience is that Christians are at heart compassionate people. When you approach them on the matter of (for example) what's the best way to minister to homeless drunks you'll find that practically every inner-city outreach program being run involves getting people warm and safe and fed.
Christians know as well as anyone else that helping people means helping - shipping drunken vagrants off to jail wouldn't help anything.
The main reason you don't see more Christians talking about how the "incarceration nation" strategy hurts more than it helps is that confrontational atheists can't refrain from side-tracking discussions into petty bickering about doctrine that doesn't have a direct impact on anybody's life.
On Oct 31, 8:32 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > On Oct 31, 11:05 am, KingOfTheApes <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> > > > The sheep just GO WITH THE FLOW.
> > Yes, however, you seem to be attempting to paint *all* believers with > > the same brush, that of the anti-science fundy cretiniod loon. That > > is not a true picture. Some are, some are not.
> Where are the Christians standing up against the STUPID, CRIMINAL > prohibition of drugs?
> Or they don't hear about all the prison overpopulation and the war in > Mexico? Maybe they don't want to hear. ;)
We hear clearly. Since the government won't legalize drugs, addicts should quit. That is a sure way to prevent the violence. No demand, no supply. Junkies clearly are propagating the violence.
> Hey, nothing agaisnt the Christians who are cool and let other people > drink to their heart's content.
> It's in history that they were behind the PROHIBITION, and we know > full well that they are behind the War on Drugs for the same reason: > They are MORALIZING, which brings any amount of HYPOCRISY, VIOLENCE > AND EVEN IMMORALITY to society.
> But hey, who cares if they have it their way. The LIVE AND LET LIVE > philosophy scares them. People may stop going to churches praying for > Jesus coming to get them out of the misery and sin.
> I say the Devil is loose in this world. Well, not a real mean Devil, > but you know what I mean...
> HOW DO YOU RATE THEM?
> a) They are moralizing but not very moral > b) They practice what they preach > c) The devil is in the PROHIBITION
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > How to tell if people descend from the monkey: Give them a banana! > Then watch if they grab it like a monkey.
Speaking on behalf of the Christians: People who deal in illegal narcotics should be incarcerated. I remember the crime wave of the 70s. Society started throwing criminals in jail and crime started to decrease for the first time. I put the drug violence squarely on the shoulders on the users. We are winning the crime war, no question about it. The tactic of throwing people in jail works. If a person uses a gun to commit a crime they get additional time. Three strikes, great idea. I dont want these people walking the streets. We lock people up until they get old, then we release them when they are no longer a danger to society. Crime has decreased, the incarceration experiment has worked.
On Nov 1, 12:17 am, Brother Nate <bron...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christians know as well as anyone else that helping people > means helping - shipping drunken vagrants off to jail wouldn't > help anything.
> The main reason you don't see more Christians talking about > how the "incarceration nation" strategy hurts more than it helps > is that confrontational atheists can't refrain from side-tracking > discussions into petty bickering about doctrine that doesn't > have a direct impact on anybody's life.
Well, I don't know about "them," but I want to see real solutions, liberalizing drugs like in Holland. Anything less is...
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y. ;)
It's a POLITICAL SOLUTION that we need, not the churches controlling the handouts to the poor and having "recovery programs" for the drunks that don't recover anyone. If they do it, they do for a very practical reason: TO GAIN SOULS. ;)
Steady Eddy wrote: > Speaking on behalf of the Christians:
I pity the fool who lets Eddy speak for them.
> People who deal in illegal narcotics should be incarcerated. I > remember the crime wave of the 70s. Society started throwing > criminals in jail and crime started to decrease for the first time. I > put the drug violence squarely on the shoulders on the users. We are > winning the crime war, no question about it. The tactic of throwing > people in jail works. If a person uses a gun to commit a crime they > get additional time. Three strikes, great idea. I dont want these > people walking the streets. We lock people up until they get old, then > we release them when they are no longer a danger to society. Crime has > decreased, the incarceration experiment has worked.
Crime has changed, but personally I'm not sure I feel more safe now than I did back in the 70s. Drug addicts were not the ones who robbed upward of 3 trillion dollars from the global economy just this past year. Drug addicts didn't fly planes into the towers in NYC. They were never the worst of our problems.
The guy down the street from me driving the big SUV (the oil addict) puts more money into the pockets of America's enemies than drug addicts do, but incarceration just isn't the answer to every problem.
> Steady Eddy wrote: > > Speaking on behalf of the Christians:
> I pity the fool who lets Eddy speak for them.
> > People who deal in illegal narcotics should be incarcerated. I > > remember the crime wave of the 70s. Society started throwing > > criminals in jail and crime started to decrease for the first time. I > > put the drug violence squarely on the shoulders on the users. We are > > winning the crime war, no question about it. The tactic of throwing > > people in jail works. If a person uses a gun to commit a crime they > > get additional time. Three strikes, great idea. I dont want these > > people walking the streets. We lock people up until they get old, then > > we release them when they are no longer a danger to society. Crime has > > decreased, the incarceration experiment has worked.
> Crime has changed, but personally I'm not sure I feel more > safe now than I did back in the 70s. Drug addicts were not > the ones who robbed upward of 3 trillion dollars from the > global economy just this past year. Drug addicts didn't > fly planes into the towers in NYC. They were never the > worst of our problems.
> The guy down the street from me driving the big SUV (the > oil addict) puts more money into the pockets of America's > enemies than drug addicts do, but incarceration just isn't > the answer to every problem.
Living in HYPOCRISY is the safest path for most Christians.
And besides, THEY drive SUVs, so who cares about terrorism and drug violence. That's why we are launching two wars on them!
> On Nov 2, 6:18 am, Brother Nate <bron...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Steady Eddy wrote: > > > Speaking on behalf of the Christians:
> > I pity the fool who lets Eddy speak for them.
> > > People who deal in illegal narcotics should be incarcerated. I > > > remember the crime wave of the 70s. Society started throwing > > > criminals in jail and crime started to decrease for the first time. I > > > put the drug violence squarely on the shoulders on the users. We are > > > winning the crime war, no question about it. The tactic of throwing > > > people in jail works. If a person uses a gun to commit a crime they > > > get additional time. Three strikes, great idea. I dont want these > > > people walking the streets. We lock people up until they get old, then > > > we release them when they are no longer a danger to society. Crime has > > > decreased, the incarceration experiment has worked.
> > Crime has changed, but personally I'm not sure I feel more > > safe now than I did back in the 70s. Drug addicts were not > > the ones who robbed upward of 3 trillion dollars from the > > global economy just this past year. Drug addicts didn't > > fly planes into the towers in NYC. They were never the > > worst of our problems.
> > The guy down the street from me driving the big SUV (the > > oil addict) puts more money into the pockets of America's > > enemies than drug addicts do, but incarceration just isn't > > the answer to every problem.
> Living in HYPOCRISY is the safest path for most Christians.
> And besides, THEY drive SUVs, so who cares about terrorism and drug > violence. That's why we are launching two wars on them!- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Incarceration Reduces Crime
Table of Contents: Further Readings
Morgan Reynolds, testimony before the House Subcommittee on Crime, Committee on the Judiciary, Washington, DC, October 2, 2002.
Morgan Reynolds is the director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis, a nonprofit, nonpartisan think tank. He is also a professor of economics at Texas A&M University.
Crime rates have decreased dramatically as a result of the increased imprisonment of criminal offenders. More stringent sentencing laws and a stronger system of enforcement have helped put offenders behind bars. When the risk of imprisonment increases, crime rates drop. Criminals are fully aware of the consequences of prison and often give up crime so as not to return to prison in the future. Changes in criminal behavior will not come from liberal rehabilitation programs but rather from incapacitation.
Note: Editor's Note: The following viewpoint was originally given as testimony before the U.S. House of Representatives on October 2, 2002.
My name is Morgan Reynolds and I am Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis [NCPA], a private, nonprofit, nonpartisan think tank headquartered in Dallas, Texas, and Professor of Economics at Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas. I appreciate the invitation to testify before the [U.S. House of Representatives] subcommittee today [October 2, 2002] on the question of whether or not punishment works to reduce crime.
The answer is obvious to most Americansyes, of course punishment reduces crime. Punishment converts criminal activity from a paying proposition to a nonpaying proposition, at least sometimes, and people respond accordingly. We all are aware of how similar incentives work in our lives, for example, choosing whether or not to drive faster than the law allows. (How many of us in this room, for example, have run afoul of law enforcement on a traffic charge?) Incentives matter, including the risks we are willing to run. This is only a commonsense observation about how people choose to behave. Yet controversy over the very existence of a deterrence and incapacitation effect of incarceration has raged in elite circles.
Reduced crime rates
The first duty of a scientist, it's been said, is to point out the obvious. The logic of deterrence is pretty obvious, but I must point to evidence too, which is overwhelming, for the negative impact of punishment on crime. Evidence ranges from simple facts to sophisticated statistical and econometric studies.
Even experts who disagree with each other about some aspects of criminal justice are in agreement about deterrence. For example, when Forbes magazine asked John Lott, senior research scholar at Yale Law School and author of More Guns, Less Crime, "Why the recent drop in crime?" he responded, "Lots of reasonsincreases in arrest rates, conviction rates, prison sentence lengths." And Daniel Nagin, a Carnegie-Mellon University professor of public policy who co-authored an article in the Journal of Legal Studies critical of Lott's work on concealed carry laws, says in The Handbook of Crime and Punishment, Oxford, 1998, "The combined deterrent and incapacitation effect generated by the collective actions of the police, courts, and prison system is very large."
In sharp contrast to the situation ten years ago, experts who assert the contrary are fighting a rearguard action. Crime rates have fallen 30 percent over the last decade while the prison and jail population doubled to two million. Most people are able to connect these dots (The New York Times aside), and even the academy has caught on. As German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said, truth passes through three stages, first, it is ridiculed, second, it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Simple, everyday facts about crime are easy to explain from an incentive-based perspective and hard to explain from any other perspective:
The cops are never around when you need them (because criminals are not stupid enough to commit crimes in front of the cops). When the police participate in a labor strike or "sick out," crime sprees break out (and in the aftermath of natural disasters, looting runs riot unless the Guard is called up). Prison and jail officials daily manage two million less-than-model citizens living in close quarters with few incidents (order is sustained because inmates heed incentives).
Prisons protect society
Given the avarice of man, the hard reality is that the threat of bad consequences, including public retribution posed by the legal system, is vital to secure human rights to life and property against predation. If men were angels, as James Madison said, we'd have no need of government.
The sad part about prisons is that the most effective crime reducer is the intact family. But government policies have gone far to undermine the family, intensifying the crime problem (welfare, taxes, no-fault divorce, etc.). As internal restraints (character, morality, virtue) degrade, we lamentably rely on external restraints to protect civilization, at least in the short run. As Edmund Burke, English political philosopher, said, "Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without ... men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters."
Human behavior
Criminality is purposeful human behavior. The testimony of criminals provides perhaps our strongest evidence that, in the vast majority of cases, lawbreakers reason and act like other human beings (also a fundamental proposition in the justice system). Criminologists Richard Wright and Scott Decker interviewed 105 active, nonincarcerated residential burglars in St. Louis, Mo. Burglar No. 013 said, "After my eight years for robbery, I told myself then I'll never do another robbery because I was locked up with so many guys that was doin' 25 to 30 years for robbery and I think that's what made me stick to burglaries, because I had learned that a crime committed with a weapon will get you a lot of time."
Burglars also choose their targets by considering both risks and rewards. For example:
Burglars avoid neighborhoods that are heavily patrolled or aggressively policed: "You got to stay away from where the police ride real tough." Nine out of 10 burglars say they always avoid breaking into an occupied residence: "I rather for the police to catch me vs. a person catching me breaking in their house because the person will kill you. Sometimes the police will tell you, 'You lucky we came before they did.'" Realistically enough, burglars perceive the chance of being apprehended for a given break-in as extremely slim, partly because they efficiently search the master bedroom first (cash, jewelry, guns) and do not linger inside the target.
The value of punishment in crime prevention
Only after World War II did scholars begin to statistically study the effects of deterrence. Today a large body of scholarly literature generally confirms the value of punishment in the prevention of crime.
Perhaps the most widely cited is Isaac Erhlich's 1973 study of punishment and deterrence in the Journal of Political Economy. Using state data for 1940, 1950 and 1960, Ehrlich found that crime varied inversely with the probability of prison and the average time served.
More recently, University of Chicago economist Steven Levitt estimated that for each 10 percent rise in a state's prison population, robberies fall 7 percent, assault and burglary shrink 4 percent each, auto theft and larceny decline 3 percent each, rape falls 2 11/42 percent and murder drops 1 11/42 percent. On average, 10 to 15 nondrug felonies are eliminated for each additional prisoner locked up, saving social costs estimated at $53,900, well in excess of the $30,000 it costs annually to incarcerate a prisoner.
Scholars also ask which provides the greater deterrent, certainty or severity of punishment? One provocative study involving prisoners and college students came down firmly
...
I think this issue about the veil and the mask comes handy here...
"While Muslim women are told to put on a veil, Christians wear a mask!"
Hey, that's a metaphorical mask, of course. We are too liberated to go back to the past, but not enough to take off the mask. It's something we got so used to it that we don't even notice. "YOU JUST PRETEND EVERYTHING AND DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE."
And the battle over the veil is raging on in Egypt... ;)
On Nov 2, 1:33 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote: > > Hey, that's a metaphorical mask, of course. We are too liberated to go > > back to the past, but not enough to take off the mask. It's something > > we got so used to it that we don't even notice. "YOU JUST PRETEND > > EVERYTHING AND DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE."
> Congratulations, sir: you appear to have discovered hypocrisy. Bit of a > shock, eh?
Well, I knew about it, but perhaps I now see in a new perspective.
> > And the battle over the veil is raging on in Egypt... ;)
> Ironically, I understand that the veil was a custom some Muslims took > from the Christians of Byzantium (sorry: don't remember c&v). In the > 'sixties there used to be --and perhaps there still are -- places even > in Sa'udi where the women had never worn the veil.
That I didn't know. ;)
Did you know CAMOUFLAGE is very common in the jungle?
On Nov 2, 4:22 pm, Brock <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Prohibition is a specific solution to a specific problem. In the > light of damaged families from alcoholism, I have heard family members > afterwards say "if only he/she hadn't taken that first drink" ... and > they are right.
> But the person unfortunately DID take that drink. Consider:
Assume some scenario out of the Middle Ages or Middle East whatever (Galileo if you will), where they torture you and have you "convert" to the Faith? Hey, SURVIVAL is the name of the game in the jungle, so you say "YES!"
Well, I'm ready for it. I will convert to this "sect"...
Yes, my fellow Atheists, you may choose to die, like the Christians did at the Roman Circus (good show, huh?), but I'm cool with Marley, the Freedom to smoke or not, Justice and the Revolution. Yeah man! ;)
> On Nov 2, 9:04 pm, Steady Eddy <nonsmoki...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Nov 2, 10:19 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> > > wrote:
> > > On Nov 2, 12:01 pm, Steady Eddy <nonsmoki...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > Incarceration Reduces Crime
> > > Then why every CIVILIZED country out there (ie. Canada and Western > > > Europe), has both lower incarceration rates and much lower crime > > > rates?
> > > Is that discussed sometimes? ;)
> > I can only speak for our Country. Perhaps you have some data you would > > like to share with us.
> It's too late today. Perhaps tomorrow.
> I've thought you knew it was self-evident for America.
Well banana speaking on behalf of the Christians all over the world. We enjoy locking up the sinners so they can be saved. It is our Christian duty. Us Chistians plot all day long against the drug using heathen. Can I get an Amen?
> On Nov 2, 8:36 pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 2, 9:04 pm, Steady Eddy <nonsmoki...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > On Nov 2, 10:19 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 2, 12:01 pm, Steady Eddy <nonsmoki...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > > Incarceration Reduces Crime
> > > > Then why every CIVILIZED country out there (ie. Canada and Western > > > > Europe), has both lower incarceration rates and much lower crime > > > > rates?
> > > > Is that discussed sometimes? ;)
> > > I can only speak for our Country. Perhaps you have some data you would > > > like to share with us.
> > It's too late today. Perhaps tomorrow.
> > I've thought you knew it was self-evident for America.
> Well banana speaking on behalf of the Christians all over the world. > We enjoy locking up the sinners so they can be saved. It is our > Christian duty. Us Chistians plot all day long against the drug using > heathen. Can I get an Amen?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Some of you, Christians, are real cool, live and let live, try to eat vegetarian, are for the revolution... yeah man!
And of course, smoke weed. ;)
(MOST CHRISTIANS THOUGH WEAR THE MASK)
Get Up, Stand Up lyrics
Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights Get up, stand up, don't give up the fight
Preacher man don't tell me Heaven is under the earth I know you don't know What life is really worth It's not all that glitters is gold Half the story has never been told So now you see the light Stand up for your rights
Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights Get up, stand up, don't give up the fight
Most people think Great good will come from the skies Take away everything And make everybody feel high But if you know what life is worth You would look for yours on earth And now you've seen the light You stand up for your rights
Get up, stand up (yeah, yeah) Stand up for your rights (oh) Get up, stand up (get up stand up) Don't give up the fight (life is your right) Get up stand up (so we can't give up the fight) Stand up for your right (lord lord) Get up, stand up (people struggling on) Don't give up the fight (yeah)
We're sick and tired of your ism-schism game To die and go to heaven in Jesus' name We know and understand Almighty God is a living man You can fool some people sometimes But you can't fool all the people all the time And now we've seen the light (What you gonna do) We gonna stand up for our rights
Get up, stand up Stand up for you rights Get up, stand up Stand up for your rights Get up, stand up Stand up for your rights Get up, stand up Don't give up the fight
> On Nov 2, 8:36 pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 2, 9:04 pm, Steady Eddy <nonsmoki...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > On Nov 2, 10:19 am, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 2, 12:01 pm, Steady Eddy <nonsmoki...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > > Incarceration Reduces Crime
> > > > Then why every CIVILIZED country out there (ie. Canada and Western > > > > Europe), has both lower incarceration rates and much lower crime > > > > rates?
> > > > Is that discussed sometimes? ;)
> > > I can only speak for our Country. Perhaps you have some data you would > > > like to share with us.
> > It's too late today. Perhaps tomorrow.
> > I've thought you knew it was self-evident for America.
> Well banana speaking on behalf of the Christians all over the world. > We enjoy locking up the sinners so they can be saved. It is our > Christian duty. Us Chistians plot all day long against the drug using > heathen. Can I get an Amen?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
You don't plot, *you just give a shit* about those that rotten in prison, as well as those who are the victims of crime and the killings in Mexico, Afghanistan and elsewhere.
But then you get in your SUVs and go back your Gated Communities that keep you sheltered from the jungle.
Do you know about the jungle out there? See all those in the cage for your own lies.
I don't care about #1 or #2, because I'm neither Jew nor Christian, and not even the Theologians can figure out the Bible, so #3 becomes key to the riddle. My favorite is a man that says,
"We're sick and tired of your ism-schism game To die and go to heaven in Jesus' name We know and understand Almighty God is a living man You can fool some people sometimes But you can't fool all the people all the time"
Yes, I've heard him many times and he has a lot of good vibes, and so do the ones who like him give you GOOD ENERGY AND MESSAGES OF FREEDOM. The ones that preach ONE LOVE, that LIVE AND LET LIVE...
Yeah man, I declare Bob Marley to be the Messiah or Liberator, a word I prefer.
I do so in my capacity of King of the Apes, Comandante Banana and a few other encarnations I have taken on my path to enlightenment. And if you don't believe me, give him a listen one more time... ;)
"Jamaican reggae music is one of the best-known genres of music around the world, uniting people of all countries, all races, and all religions with a sound that is dedicated to searching for the answers to life, to conflict, to humanity, to the world, to love."
And if you believe in an ENERGY INSTEAD, that's you religion, and if you believe in the FULL MOON, that's your religion, and if you believe in TRUTH, that's your religion.
MY RELIGION IS TRUTH.
Thank you and good night, sleep tight, and be ready for more hot debates tomorrow. Yes, I listen to reggae while writing here, which gives me a powerful energy few mortals can match. The marijuana is optional, but I expect Christians to be missing both the reggae and the pot, and so they sound terribly boring and out of touch with reality. I just go to sleep now...
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