Can anyone recommend a 'out of the box' system/methodology/accountant for the accounting side of setting up a simple web retail business (sole trader, etc)? Low cost/low admin start, etc.
3. Register your .com.au based on the ABN (if you want one) - there are many registrars listed at http://www.ausregistry.com.au/ (we use Enetica)
4. Open a bank account, and then register for a merchant facility to use off it (probably chose your bank based on the price of their merchant facility); ANZ screwed me recently (they added an account termination cost after signing up, won't return calls even though I've lodged a complaint), and I've found Bankwest to be very good and professional.
5. Use someone like eWay or SecurePay to give you the ability to take credit card details in your own shopping cart; they provide a virtual EFTPOS machine effectively, and have plugins for many common shopping carts.
6. Develop website/cart, and make sure you install Google Analytics and enable the Ecommerce Tracking option
7. Start trading
If you earn towards $100K in profit, then you should think about incorporating (registering a company). This is also good if you want to protect your personal assets (ie, house) in case someone sues the company (because the product you retailed made them unhappy, etc). The ATO gives 'rollover' relief so you can change from a sole trader to a company - a completely different legal entity owning/running the business - without incurring CGT as long as the process is going from an unincorporated entity with a certain ownership structure (sole trader, partnership) across to a company with the identical ownership structure (you own all shares, or the shares are split between partners in the same ratio as the partnership)
There's a lot more to consider, such as inventory, shipping prices, refund/return policies and so forth. I'm not as experienced in this side of things: perhaps another beacher could contribute?
From: silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com [mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Harries
Sent: Tuesday, 3 November 2009 10:37 AM
To: silicon-beach-australia
Subject: [SiliconBeach] Web retail in a box?
Hi Silicon Beachers,
Can anyone recommend a 'out of the box' system/methodology/accountant for the accounting side of setting up a simple web retail business (sole trader, etc)? Low cost/low admin start, etc.
My 2c worth. Go for Pty Ltd Company immediately, if you are not planning to
raise capital consider using family discretionary trust as well. Talk to
adviser. Get it right now. They will probably talk about Woman of Substance,
Man of Straw (ie hold the family home in your wifes name)
Sole Traders suck for a whole bunch of reasons aside from the cost (Geoff
already mentioned liabilities).
- Liability
- No separate legal entity means business succession is hard to achieve
- No ability to hive off into separate business that can be managed by
someone else
Case in point. My brother in law recently passed away and he was a sole
trader.
This is an absolute nightmare scenario, business technically can't trade
anymore until estate is sorted through, may never trade again. Wife with
three small children now has no income and we are trying to restructure so
it can continue but very difficult to do.
All assets are now locked up with the administrator of his estate. There is
no ability for this business as it is to move forward as it technically died
with him (and business was booming for him)
If you are not planning to raise capital consider setting up Company owned
by Discretionary trust (discretionary trust can be managed by another
company or you or wife)
As life changes (and it does) income can be streamed to other members of the
family, wife stops working, no problems, discretionary trust can direct
income to her, other family members need assistance discretionary trust can
legally stream income to the parents. Son/Daughter is now of age and going
to uni, again trust can stream income legally.
Once your business is successful its too late to change to a trust, capital
gains will kill you (and Geoffs good example of a rollover/relief probably
wont apply because the beneficiaries of the discretionary trust will be
different to the sole trader/partnership)
Also if you kick the bucket, life goes on, you can set up a bunch of people
to manage the trust and keep the business running for your family.
Regards
Mike
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Geoff McQueen - Hiive Systems <
geoff.mcqu...@hiivesystems.com> wrote:
> Do you have any assets in your own name that you want to protect in case
> something should go really really wrong? If so, think about incorporating.
> 2. Register for an ABN in this “trading as” business name; you can
> register online at http://www.abr.gov.au/ABR_BC/
> 3. Register your .com.au based on the ABN (if you want one) – there
> are many registrars listed at http://www.ausregistry.com.au/ (we use
> Enetica)
> 4. Open a bank account, and then register for a merchant facility to
> use off it (probably chose your bank based on the price of their merchant
> facility); ANZ screwed me recently (they added an account termination cost
> after signing up, won’t return calls even though I’ve lodged a complaint),
> and I’ve found Bankwest to be very good and professional.
> 5. Use someone like eWay or SecurePay to give you the ability to
> take credit card details in your own shopping cart; they provide a virtual
> EFTPOS machine effectively, and have plugins for many common shopping carts.
> 6. Develop website/cart, and make sure you install Google Analytics
> and enable the Ecommerce Tracking option
> 7. Start trading
> If you earn towards $100K in profit, then you should think about
> incorporating (registering a company). This is also good if you want to
> protect your personal assets (ie, house) in case someone sues the company
> (because the product you retailed made them unhappy, etc). The ATO gives
> ‘rollover’ relief so you can change from a sole trader to a company – a
> completely different legal entity owning/running the business – without
> incurring CGT as long as the process is going from an unincorporated entity
> with a certain ownership structure (sole trader, partnership) across to a
> company with the identical ownership structure (you own all shares, or the
> shares are split between partners in the same ratio as the partnership)
> There’s a lot more to consider, such as inventory, shipping prices,
> refund/return policies and so forth. I’m not as experienced in this side of
> things: perhaps another beacher could contribute?
> *From:* silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Harries
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 November 2009 10:37 AM
> *To:* silicon-beach-australia
> *Subject:* [SiliconBeach] Web retail in a box?
> Hi Silicon Beachers,
> Can anyone recommend a 'out of the box' system/methodology/accountant for
> the accounting side of setting up a simple web retail business (sole trader,
> etc)? Low cost/low admin start, etc.
I'm perhaps not your typical start-up in that we are reasonably well
funded (self) before we get going, I've spent a bit of time talking
with the accountants and looking at corporate structures.
We've ended up with 2 companies - BinaryPlex and BinaryPlex Holdings,
shares in BinaryPlex are owned by a family trust and shares in
BinaryPlex Holdings are owned by a unit trust. There are lots of very
good reasons for doing this, many of which offer tax advantages,
future sales / exit advantages, capital raising, offering equity, tax
effectiveness, ability to offer shares only in the assets we want to
share, ability to consult without risk to our asset etc.
For my 2 cents worth, if you're serious, do it seriously. I'm not
leaving my career and salary just for fun (ok partly for fun), we
intend to build a successful and profitable business. Money spent now
is a good investment for the future - yes it is a "waste" if you fail,
but it will pay for itself many times over if your venture takes off.
It's also worth noting that approaching 40, with 2 kids, a mortgage
and other investments I have a lot more to lose and perhaps more
options (if you have no family, a trust might not be helpful) - this
is where an accountant can give you excellent advice - your advice
should be for you and tailored by someone that understands your
personal situation, your obligations and risks and can advise you
accordingly.
I strongly recommend you spend the $300 it will cost to get some
excellent advice on a good structure and why you should do it, even if
you do proceed to set it up yourself. Depending on the structure and
if you choose to do it yourself or have them do it for you, you are
then looking at probably something like between $1,200 - $6,000
depending on the complexity, number of entities etc. etc.
Cheers,
Tim
On Nov 3, 11:23 am, Mike Nicholls <search4ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My 2c worth. Go for Pty Ltd Company immediately, if you are not planning to
> raise capital consider using family discretionary trust as well. Talk to
> adviser. Get it right now. They will probably talk about Woman of Substance,
> Man of Straw (ie hold the family home in your wifes name)
> Sole Traders suck for a whole bunch of reasons aside from the cost (Geoff
> already mentioned liabilities).
> - Liability
> - No separate legal entity means business succession is hard to achieve
> - No ability to hive off into separate business that can be managed by
> someone else
> Case in point. My brother in law recently passed away and he was a sole
> trader.
> This is an absolute nightmare scenario, business technically can't trade
> anymore until estate is sorted through, may never trade again. Wife with
> three small children now has no income and we are trying to restructure so
> it can continue but very difficult to do.
> All assets are now locked up with the administrator of his estate. There is
> no ability for this business as it is to move forward as it technically died
> with him (and business was booming for him)
> If you are not planning to raise capital consider setting up Company owned
> by Discretionary trust (discretionary trust can be managed by another
> company or you or wife)
> As life changes (and it does) income can be streamed to other members of the
> family, wife stops working, no problems, discretionary trust can direct
> income to her, other family members need assistance discretionary trust can
> legally stream income to the parents. Son/Daughter is now of age and going
> to uni, again trust can stream income legally.
> Once your business is successful its too late to change to a trust, capital
> gains will kill you (and Geoffs good example of a rollover/relief probably
> wont apply because the beneficiaries of the discretionary trust will be
> different to the sole trader/partnership)
> Also if you kick the bucket, life goes on, you can set up a bunch of people
> to manage the trust and keep the business running for your family.
> Regards
> Mike
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Geoff McQueen - Hiive Systems <
> geoff.mcqu...@hiivesystems.com> wrote:
> > Do you have any assets in your own name that you want to protect in case
> > something should go really really wrong? If so, think about incorporating.
> > If not, then:
> > 1. Register for a business name in your home state as a sole trader;
> > in NSW you can do it online athttp://blis.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/
> > 2. Register for an ABN in this “trading as” business name; you can
> > register online athttp://www.abr.gov.au/ABR_BC/
> > 3. Register your .com.au based on the ABN (if you want one) – there
> > are many registrars listed athttp://www.ausregistry.com.au/(we use
> > Enetica)
> > 4. Open a bank account, and then register for a merchant facility to
> > use off it (probably chose your bank based on the price of their merchant
> > facility); ANZ screwed me recently (they added an account termination cost
> > after signing up, won’t return calls even though I’ve lodged a complaint),
> > and I’ve found Bankwest to be very good and professional.
> > 5. Use someone like eWay or SecurePay to give you the ability to
> > take credit card details in your own shopping cart; they provide a virtual
> > EFTPOS machine effectively, and have plugins for many common shopping carts.
> > 6. Develop website/cart, and make sure you install Google Analytics
> > and enable the Ecommerce Tracking option
> > 7. Start trading
> > If you earn towards $100K in profit, then you should think about
> > incorporating (registering a company). This is also good if you want to
> > protect your personal assets (ie, house) in case someone sues the company
> > (because the product you retailed made them unhappy, etc). The ATO gives
> > ‘rollover’ relief so you can change from a sole trader to a company – a
> > completely different legal entity owning/running the business – without
> > incurring CGT as long as the process is going from an unincorporated entity
> > with a certain ownership structure (sole trader, partnership) across to a
> > company with the identical ownership structure (you own all shares, or the
> > shares are split between partners in the same ratio as the partnership)
> > There’s a lot more to consider, such as inventory, shipping prices,
> > refund/return policies and so forth. I’m not as experienced in this side of
> > things: perhaps another beacher could contribute?
> > *From:* silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Harries
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 November 2009 10:37 AM
> > *To:* silicon-beach-australia
> > *Subject:* [SiliconBeach] Web retail in a box?
> > Hi Silicon Beachers,
> > Can anyone recommend a 'out of the box' system/methodology/accountant for
> > the accounting side of setting up a simple web retail business (sole trader,
> > etc)? Low cost/low admin start, etc.
Geoff, Mike and Tim, Thanks for your thoughts - very clearly steering away
from the sole trader story ... good points all.
This particular venture is somewhat exploratory and in support of some other
activities, so I'm most concerned to minimize setup and administration cost.
So, my next question is ... can anyone recommend a good accountant with
great systems for streamlined set up of accounting procedures, GST, etc, etc
in Sydney's inner west? In other words, one that has a a 'colour by number',
low cost/low effort solution for the nasty admin/tax related parts of
setting up a web shop.
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Tim Bull <tbull...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'm perhaps not your typical start-up in that we are reasonably well
> funded (self) before we get going, I've spent a bit of time talking
> with the accountants and looking at corporate structures.
> We've ended up with 2 companies - BinaryPlex and BinaryPlex Holdings,
> shares in BinaryPlex are owned by a family trust and shares in
> BinaryPlex Holdings are owned by a unit trust. There are lots of very
> good reasons for doing this, many of which offer tax advantages,
> future sales / exit advantages, capital raising, offering equity, tax
> effectiveness, ability to offer shares only in the assets we want to
> share, ability to consult without risk to our asset etc.
> For my 2 cents worth, if you're serious, do it seriously. I'm not
> leaving my career and salary just for fun (ok partly for fun), we
> intend to build a successful and profitable business. Money spent now
> is a good investment for the future - yes it is a "waste" if you fail,
> but it will pay for itself many times over if your venture takes off.
> It's also worth noting that approaching 40, with 2 kids, a mortgage
> and other investments I have a lot more to lose and perhaps more
> options (if you have no family, a trust might not be helpful) - this
> is where an accountant can give you excellent advice - your advice
> should be for you and tailored by someone that understands your
> personal situation, your obligations and risks and can advise you
> accordingly.
> I strongly recommend you spend the $300 it will cost to get some
> excellent advice on a good structure and why you should do it, even if
> you do proceed to set it up yourself. Depending on the structure and
> if you choose to do it yourself or have them do it for you, you are
> then looking at probably something like between $1,200 - $6,000
> depending on the complexity, number of entities etc. etc.
> Cheers,
> Tim
> On Nov 3, 11:23 am, Mike Nicholls <search4ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Guys
> > My 2c worth. Go for Pty Ltd Company immediately, if you are not planning
> to
> > raise capital consider using family discretionary trust as well. Talk to
> > adviser. Get it right now. They will probably talk about Woman of
> Substance,
> > Man of Straw (ie hold the family home in your wifes name)
> > Sole Traders suck for a whole bunch of reasons aside from the cost (Geoff
> > already mentioned liabilities).
> > - Liability
> > - No separate legal entity means business succession is hard to
> achieve
> > - No ability to hive off into separate business that can be managed by
> > someone else
> > Case in point. My brother in law recently passed away and he was a sole
> > trader.
> > This is an absolute nightmare scenario, business technically can't trade
> > anymore until estate is sorted through, may never trade again. Wife with
> > three small children now has no income and we are trying to restructure
> so
> > it can continue but very difficult to do.
> > All assets are now locked up with the administrator of his estate. There
> is
> > no ability for this business as it is to move forward as it technically
> died
> > with him (and business was booming for him)
> > If you are not planning to raise capital consider setting up Company
> owned
> > by Discretionary trust (discretionary trust can be managed by another
> > company or you or wife)
> > As life changes (and it does) income can be streamed to other members of
> the
> > family, wife stops working, no problems, discretionary trust can direct
> > income to her, other family members need assistance discretionary trust
> can
> > legally stream income to the parents. Son/Daughter is now of age and
> going
> > to uni, again trust can stream income legally.
> > Once your business is successful its too late to change to a trust,
> capital
> > gains will kill you (and Geoffs good example of a rollover/relief
> probably
> > wont apply because the beneficiaries of the discretionary trust will be
> > different to the sole trader/partnership)
> > Also if you kick the bucket, life goes on, you can set up a bunch of
> people
> > to manage the trust and keep the business running for your family.
> > Regards
> > Mike
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Geoff McQueen - Hiive Systems <
> > geoff.mcqu...@hiivesystems.com> wrote:
> > > Do you have any assets in your own name that you want to protect in
> case
> > > something should go really really wrong? If so, think about
> incorporating.
> > > If not, then:
> > > 1. Register for a business name in your home state as a sole
> trader;
> > > in NSW you can do it online athttp://blis.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/
> > > 2. Register for an ABN in this “trading as” business name; you
> can
> > > register online athttp://www.abr.gov.au/ABR_BC/
> > > 3. Register your .com.au based on the ABN (if you want one) –
> there
> > > are many registrars listed athttp://www.ausregistry.com.au/(we use
> > > Enetica)
> > > 4. Open a bank account, and then register for a merchant facility
> to
> > > use off it (probably chose your bank based on the price of their
> merchant
> > > facility); ANZ screwed me recently (they added an account termination
> cost
> > > after signing up, won’t return calls even though I’ve lodged a
> complaint),
> > > and I’ve found Bankwest to be very good and professional.
> > > 5. Use someone like eWay or SecurePay to give you the ability to
> > > take credit card details in your own shopping cart; they provide a
> virtual
> > > EFTPOS machine effectively, and have plugins for many common shopping
> carts.
> > > 6. Develop website/cart, and make sure you install Google
> Analytics
> > > and enable the Ecommerce Tracking option
> > > 7. Start trading
> > > If you earn towards $100K in profit, then you should think about
> > > incorporating (registering a company). This is also good if you want to
> > > protect your personal assets (ie, house) in case someone sues the
> company
> > > (because the product you retailed made them unhappy, etc). The ATO
> gives
> > > ‘rollover’ relief so you can change from a sole trader to a company – a
> > > completely different legal entity owning/running the business – without
> > > incurring CGT as long as the process is going from an unincorporated
> entity
> > > with a certain ownership structure (sole trader, partnership) across to
> a
> > > company with the identical ownership structure (you own all shares, or
> the
> > > shares are split between partners in the same ratio as the partnership)
> > > There’s a lot more to consider, such as inventory, shipping prices,
> > > refund/return policies and so forth. I’m not as experienced in this
> side of
> > > things: perhaps another beacher could contribute?
> > > *From:* silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael
> Harries
> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 November 2009 10:37 AM
> > > *To:* silicon-beach-australia
> > > *Subject:* [SiliconBeach] Web retail in a box?
> > > Hi Silicon Beachers,
> > > Can anyone recommend a 'out of the box' system/methodology/accountant
> for
> > > the accounting side of setting up a simple web retail business (sole
> trader,
> > > etc)? Low cost/low admin start, etc.
You might want to look at Saasu.com they are a Sydney based online
accounting software-as-a-service alternative that is pretty unique in
that they have about 200 partners in AU now but also work overseas if
you branch out later.
They have many thousands of users.
Their direct competitors locally are MYOB Premier (on-premise
software) the market leader, Quicken/Reckon (also software) the second
place holder and a kiwi firm xero.com.
The main differentiators are inventory and payroll (MYOB and Quicken
and Saasu cover these but Xero doesn't) and price (saasu is cheapest
on an upfront and on a total cost of ownership basis and sometimes
limited functionality offers from MYOB and Quicken are competitive).
My fav saasu partners are Martyn from MY-CFO and Stephen Bell from
Logiro. Although check the site for profiled ones cause there are a
few. I should note I am a client since 2006 and a shareholder since
2007.
Having said that I no longer use a bookkeeper for all the businesses I
am involved in, almost all the postings to saasu I have automated via
batch upload or recurring transactions and just give my accountant
online access or a PDF direct from Saasu. Payroll and invoicing
including email PDFs are all done direct form the system.
> Can anyone recommend a 'out of the box' system/methodology/accountant for
> the accounting side of setting up a simple web retail business (sole trader,
> etc)? Low cost/low admin start, etc.
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