I think -- after very carefully *not* ordering another 5L E-6 kit from Adorama since the last one they sent me was short dated (only 4 months left on the concentrate shelf life when it arrived) -- I just got a bad 5L E-6 kit from B&H.
I can't be sure, since I mix partial kits, keeping the concentrates out of vacuum and drawing them from the bottles with clean syringes. This isn't, of course, the Kodak Approved procedure and I am pretty sure that consequently, Kodak won't be too eager to help me. But the first run of film I did in this kit, about a month ago, was fine -- and generally I can keep a kit for well over a year using this procedure, if I have to, with no problem with the developed film. Today's tanks of film (sadly I ran two at once) showed all the signs of exhausted first developer. There was a good strong vacuum when I opened the bottles, so that's not it -- and it was not particularly hot where they were stored, either, and I know I got the mixtures right and times/temps were correct.
I wonder when the last time Kodak made the 5L E6 kits was. Has anyone else received a bad one lately? With bad results from both B&H and Adorama I'm not even sure where to turn for a new one.
-- Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com "Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
>I think -- after very carefully *not* ordering another 5L >E-6 kit > from Adorama since the last one they sent me was short > dated (only > 4 months left on the concentrate shelf life when it > arrived) -- I > just got a bad 5L E-6 kit from B&H.
> I can't be sure, since I mix partial kits, keeping the > concentrates > out of vacuum and drawing them from the bottles with clean > syringes. > This isn't, of course, the Kodak Approved procedure and I > am pretty > sure that consequently, Kodak won't be too eager to help > me. But > the first run of film I did in this kit, about a month > ago, was > fine -- and generally I can keep a kit for well over a > year using > this procedure, if I have to, with no problem with the > developed > film. Today's tanks of film (sadly I ran two at once) > showed all > the signs of exhausted first developer. There was a good > strong > vacuum when I opened the bottles, so that's not it -- and > it was > not particularly hot where they were stored, either, and I > know > I got the mixtures right and times/temps were correct.
> I wonder when the last time Kodak made the 5L E6 kits was. > Has > anyone else received a bad one lately? With bad results > from > both B&H and Adorama I'm not even sure where to turn for a > new > one.
> -- > Thor Lancelot Simon > t...@rek.tjls.com > "Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* > at the UNIX > prompt only to realize too late that they have removed > the wrong > segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS > whitepaper
Have you tried Freestyle? They seem to be quite reliable. I have the advantage that they are only a short drive from my home but they seem to have a very good mail order reputation.
-- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickb...@ix.netcom.com
> Have you tried Freestyle? They seem to be quite >reliable. I have the advantage that they are only a short >drive from my home but they seem to have a very good mail >order reputation.
It hadn't occurred to me that they'd stock the Kodak chemistry; they have their own 3-bath "Arista" brand, and I don't want 3-bath, but I bet they do carry Kodak.
I called a friend at Calumet who told me that if I ordered a 5L kit from them it'd drop-ship to me from Kodak and that if I got short-dated product directly from Kodak please let them know immediately. Looking at the remnants of the packaging from the last kit I got from Adorama, it appears that, in fact, Kodak may have sent me short-dated product directly from their Newark warehouse. Whoever sent me nearly-expired chems, I'm not going to let it happen again!
I have ordered 30L worth of wide-mouth thick square HDPE bottles from McMaster-Carr and will just devote the freezer in my darkroom fridge to E6 chemistry mixed as full kits of working solutions in .5L or 1L bottles. That has been working well for me with C41 since Kodak went to the 2L developer packaging so hopefully it will work for E6 too.
-- Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com "Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
On 6/29/2009 1:43 PM Thor Lancelot Simon spake thus:
> I have ordered 30L worth of wide-mouth thick square HDPE > bottles from McMaster-Carr and will just devote the freezer > in my darkroom fridge to E6 chemistry mixed as full kits > of working solutions in .5L or 1L bottles.
Just a small note: I thought I'd read that PETE is less permeable than HDPE, and therefore better for storing photo chemicals. Could be wrong about that, but if not, maybe you'd want to rethink your storage containers.
-- Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
In article <4a4929d0$0$18233$82264...@news.adtechcomputers.com>, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>On 6/29/2009 1:43 PM Thor Lancelot Simon spake thus:
>> I have ordered 30L worth of wide-mouth thick square HDPE >> bottles from McMaster-Carr and will just devote the freezer >> in my darkroom fridge to E6 chemistry mixed as full kits >> of working solutions in .5L or 1L bottles.
>Just a small note: I thought I'd read that PETE is less permeable than >HDPE, and therefore better for storing photo chemicals. Could be wrong >about that, but if not, maybe you'd want to rethink your storage containers.
I believe you're right -- it is less permeable. But these bottles are quite thick, and they're square -- I couldn't find square PETE bottles of the right size at a tolerable price. I think the wall thickness and the low temperature will adequately deal with oxidation.
I've been freezing C41 chemistry in Jobo bottles, which are thick HDPE, for a while now, and it's worked well. I considered glass bottles, which are cheaper still, and of course completely impervious to air, but I don't want to risk a glass bottle full of some nasty organic compound like E6 reversal bath bursting in the freezer if I overfill it slightly.
-- Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com "Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
> In article <4a4929d0$0$18233$82264...@news.adtechcomputers.com>, > David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> >On 6/29/2009 1:43 PM Thor Lancelot Simon spake thus:
> >> I have ordered 30L worth of wide-mouth thick square HDPE > >> bottles from McMaster-Carr and will just devote the freezer > >> in my darkroom fridge to E6 chemistry mixed as full kits > >> of working solutions in .5L or 1L bottles.
> >Just a small note: I thought I'd read that PETE is less permeable than > >HDPE, and therefore better for storing photo chemicals. Could be wrong > >about that, but if not, maybe you'd want to rethink your storage containers.
> I believe you're right -- it is less permeable. But these bottles are > quite thick, and they're square -- I couldn't find square PETE bottles > of the right size at a tolerable price. I think the wall thickness > and the low temperature will adequately deal with oxidation.
> I've been freezing C41 chemistry in Jobo bottles, which are thick HDPE, > for a while now, and it's worked well. I considered glass bottles, > which are cheaper still, and of course completely impervious to air, > but I don't want to risk a glass bottle full of some nasty organic > compound like E6 reversal bath bursting in the freezer if I overfill > it slightly.
> -- > Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com > "Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX > prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong > segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
How much better is it to freeze the chemicals than to keep them at (say) 40 deg. F?
>How much better is it to freeze the chemicals than to keep them at >(say) 40 deg. F?
The rule of thumb is that reaction rate doubles with every 10F increase in temperature, right? I'd much rather store these sorts of very fickly solutions at 0F in my freezer than 40F in my fridge.
The downside is that, supposedly, some of the more complex organic molecules can fractionate out when the solutions are frozen, and then not go back into solution. I've never, ever seen it happen with C41 and I hope it doesn't happen with E6.
-- Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com "Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
> >How much better is it to freeze the chemicals than to keep them at > >(say) 40 deg. F?
> The rule of thumb is that reaction rate doubles with every 10F increase > in temperature, right? I'd much rather store these sorts of very fickly > solutions at 0F in my freezer than 40F in my fridge.
> The downside is that, supposedly, some of the more complex organic > molecules can fractionate out when the solutions are frozen, and then > not go back into solution. I've never, ever seen it happen with C41 > and I hope it doesn't happen with E6.
> -- > Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com > "Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX > prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong > segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
Thank you. Kodak recommends storing mixed solutions only as cold as 40F (not sure why). I don't see a recommendation for the stock solution. It does have accessory (5L) storage bottles.
>Thank you. Kodak recommends storing mixed solutions only as cold as >40F (not sure why). I don't see a recommendation for the stock >solution. It does have accessory (5L) storage bottles.
They don't want you to get anywhere near 32F where the solutions might freeze. Just below might be worst, actually, since it might be the best way to fraction out anything with a lower freezing point. But as I understand it, the concern is primarily a theoretical one -- I've asked a few Kodak chemists about it over the years and they could not think of any studies that directly bore on the question for modern color chemistry.
The 5L storage bottles are not terribly useful as unless you use 5L at a time, you'll be opening and closing them constantly, introducing air or, should you freeze the solutions, worse still introducing air *and* freezing and thawing them.
FWIW, my father, who was at one time a chemical engineer, strongly suggested not freezing the concentrates, which jibes with my own limited understanding of the accidental-distillation process which is the basic concern with freezing the chemistry and with what one acquaintance at Kodak said to me a few years ago. Probably worst is that you'd have to freeze and thaw the concentrate solutions every time you wanted to mix working stock -- not a good thing.
I expect good results, as I said, freezing the dilute solutions in smaller containers after mixing the entire 5L kit. If that turns out to not be so, I'll mention it here.
-- Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com "Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
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