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black and white inks for making digital negatives/prints?
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Jean-David Beyer  
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 More options Oct 27, 12:11 pm
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
From: Jean-David Beyer <jeandav...@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:11:44 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 27 2009 12:11 pm
Subject: Re: black and white inks for making digital negatives/prints?

I switched to newsguy a coupla days before they said they would pull the
plug. Some months earlier, they cut off all but the "big 8".

--
   .~.  Jean-David Beyer          Registered Linux User 85642.
   /V\  PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A         Registered Machine   241939.
  /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey    http://counter.li.org
  ^^-^^ 21:10:01 up 26 days, 6:09, 3 users, load average: 4.74, 4.83, 4.71


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Rebecca Ore  
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 More options Oct 27, 1:56 pm
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
From: Rebecca Ore <macogoe...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:56:56 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 27 2009 1:56 pm
Subject: Re: black and white inks for making digital negatives/prints?
In article <4ae63f65$0$11315$82264...@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
 David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:

I have no idea.  My film cameras out-number my digital cameras.

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Lew  
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 More options Oct 28, 1:09 am
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
From: Lew <lew1...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 07:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Oct 28 2009 1:09 am
Subject: Re: black and white inks for making digital negatives/prints?
You still have more or less full access to the usenet through Google
groups and, possible, Yahoo.

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laran  
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 More options Oct 28, 2:53 am
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
From: laran <ArtPis...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:53:45 -0700
Local: Wed, Oct 28 2009 2:53 am
Subject: Re: black and white inks for making digital negatives/prints?
Lew wrote:
> You still have more or less full access to the usenet through Google
> groups and, possible, Yahoo.

google groups is very limited... I had difficulty even finding my
rec.bicycles.   groups.   I think there is a concerted push to phase
newsgroups even though they are the best method of communication over
specialized topics.....

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David Nebenzahl  
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 More options Oct 28, 5:24 am
Newsgroups: rec.photo.darkroom
From: David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:24:01 -0800
Local: Wed, Oct 28 2009 5:24 am
Subject: Re: black and white inks for making digital negatives/prints?
On 10/27/2009 6:09 AM Lew spake thus:

> You still have more or less full access to the usenet through Google
> groups and, possible, Yahoo.

Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather not post or read at all than use
Google's ill-conceived brain-damaged spam portal.

--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism


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Me  
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 More options Oct 28, 1:43 pm
Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs.printers, rec.photo.darkroom, rec.photo.digital
From: Me <u...@domain.invalid>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:43:11 +1300
Local: Wed, Oct 28 2009 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: black and white inks for making digital negatives/prints?

They're not "grey" inks.
They're often called light-black and light-light black etc.
They are weaker (diluted) versions of black ink.
For the higher end inkjet photo printers carbon black pigments are used.
  Problem with carbon black and other "black" pigments is that they
aren't black - they're usually a very very dark brown.  So when they're
applied at low density, they don't look very black.  To overcome that,
they add a blue/violet pigment (sometimes a dye) to make the black
neutral when applied at different densities.  They do the same with
black for 4-colour (and more) litho press printing inks.  All good so
far, but carbon black and the available lightfast dark blue pigments had
stability problems when used together in low viscosity aqueous
formulations, and blue dye faded too fast for archival inks.
AFAIK the first inkjet ink formulations to overcome this were Epson
Ultrachrome K3 inks, with three "strengths" of black. The data
explaining this together with example formulations is all there in US
patents.
So with neutral (or very close to neutral) at different densities,
smooth tonality was limited by minimum droplet size, so having the
ability to apply same minimum sized droplets of progressively "weaker"
ink is an advantage, and bound to be more neutral than using CYM colours
to achieve this.  But some C,Y&M is still used with "neutral" black inks
- it's not perfect,  Droplet size isn't fixed, Epson Piezo heads can
vary droplet size by varying amplitude and waveform of the signal (IIRC
8 sizes)  HP have different sized thermal nozzles, so many more nozzles
per head, and Canon are in-between, by having several different sized
thermal elements driving each nozzle.
The results are good.  You can still see the droplets with a loupe.  I
can't with naked eye.

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