> > > > > > > > > > Interesting OP ED in the NY Times:
> > > > > > > > > > Op-Ed Columnist > > > > > > > > > > Behind the Facade > > > > > > > > > > By BOB HERBERT > > > > > > > > > > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > > > > > > > > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > > > > > > > > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > > > > > > > > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> > > > > > > > > > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > > > > > > > > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > > > > > > > > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > > > > > > > > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > > > > > > > > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> > > > > > > > > > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > > > > > > > > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > > > > > > > > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > > > > > > > > > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > > > > > > > > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > > > > > > > > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > > > > > > > > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> > > > > > > > > > I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the > > > > > > > > > > relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought > > > > > > > > > > more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of > > > > > > > > > > extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already > > > > > > > > > > well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly > > > > > > > > > > broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a > > > > > > > > > > shining and ultimately tragic example. . . . . . . . . . .
> > > > > > > > > > Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and > > > > > > > > > > his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already > > > > > > > > > > reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning > > > > > > > > > > originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and > > > > > > > > > > the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been > > > > > > > > > > done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of > > > > > > > > > > gangsta rap.
> > > > > > > > > > All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the > > > > > > > > > > adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would > > > > > > > > > > be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly > > > > > > > > > > limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network > > > > > > > > > > television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of > > > > > > > > > > men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed > > > > > > > > > > fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising > > > > > > > > > > taxes.
> > > > > > > > > > In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to > > > > > > > > > > leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world > > > > > > > > > > behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up > > > > > > > > > > staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped > > > > > > > > > > jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about > > > > > > > > > > how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.
> > > > > > > > > > Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy > > > > > > > > > > gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of > > > > > > > > > > course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but > > > > > > > > > > psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself > > > > > > > > > > and others.
> > > > > > > > > > Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade > > > > > > > > > > was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well- > > > > > > > > > > documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of > > > > > > > > > > child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. > > > > > > > > > > Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. > > > > > > > > > > Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in > > > > > > > > > > his bed, often by their parents.
> > > > > > > > > > One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which > > > > > > > > > > would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 > > > > > > > > > > million. He beat another case in court.
> > > > > > > > > > The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is > > > > > > > > > > yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We > > > > > > > > > > don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.
> > > > > > > > > > As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
> > > > > > > > > That's the best article on Jackson I've read since his death. I'm > > > > > > > > > incredibly bored with puff pieces, claims about Jacko's supposed > > > > > > > > > "musical genius," and with credulous idiots who buy his "Peter Pan" > > > > > > > > > facade at face value. Thanks, Fatt!- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > > > > > > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > > > > > > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > > > > > > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > > > > > > > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > > > > > > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > > > > > > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > > > > > > > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > > > > > > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > > > > > > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > > > > > > > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > > > > > > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > > > > > > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > > > > > > > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > 25 million dollar pay-out, just so he stays out of prison? > > > > > > Guilty.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > Not good enough reasoning. What about the kid's family, who accepted > > > > > the pay out?, doesn't it look like that was all they wanted?.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > You can stick up for him all you want, in my opinon he was a > > > > pervert that did not care for the safety of his own kids, > > > > remember him hanging his kid over the balcolny? > > > > They kid should have been taken away right then and there and him > > > > being charged with child-endangerment.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > So your opinion is he was a pervert. Well, like you said, that is an > > > opinion, not an argument. I am interested in the facts. And there > > > isn't enough evidence to consider him a pervert.
> > > As for the baby in the balcony, it was reckless, but not as much as > > > the papers made it seem. It's not like he left the baby alone in the > > > balcony or something.
> > Reckless is reckless. Anyone who dangles a baby from a > > balcony should have their child taken away from them, > > IMO.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> I'm not sure what "dangle" means,
Dangle means doing what he did.
but he just held him there for a few
> seconds.
It doesn't matter. He could have caused that child's death..in one second.
There are accidents involving children all the time,
Yes, but this was no accident. He did it on purpose, and thank God there was no accident.
> > > > > > > > > > > Interesting OP ED in the NY Times:
> > > > > > > > > > > Op-Ed Columnist > > > > > > > > > > > Behind the Facade > > > > > > > > > > > By BOB HERBERT > > > > > > > > > > > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > > > > > > > > > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > > > > > > > > > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > > > > > > > > > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> > > > > > > > > > > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > > > > > > > > > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > > > > > > > > > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > > > > > > > > > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > > > > > > > > > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> > > > > > > > > > > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > > > > > > > > > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > > > > > > > > > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > > > > > > > > > > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > > > > > > > > > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> > > > > > > > > > > I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the > > > > > > > > > > > relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought > > > > > > > > > > > more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of > > > > > > > > > > > extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already > > > > > > > > > > > well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly > > > > > > > > > > > broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a > > > > > > > > > > > shining and ultimately tragic example. . . . . . . . . . .
> > > > > > > > > > > Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and > > > > > > > > > > > his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already > > > > > > > > > > > reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning > > > > > > > > > > > originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and > > > > > > > > > > > the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been > > > > > > > > > > > done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of > > > > > > > > > > > gangsta rap.
> > > > > > > > > > > All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the > > > > > > > > > > > adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would > > > > > > > > > > > be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > > Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly > > > > > > > > > > > limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network > > > > > > > > > > > television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of > > > > > > > > > > > men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed > > > > > > > > > > > fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising > > > > > > > > > > > taxes.
> > > > > > > > > > > In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to > > > > > > > > > > > leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world > > > > > > > > > > > behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up > > > > > > > > > > > staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped > > > > > > > > > > > jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about > > > > > > > > > > > how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.
> > > > > > > > > > > Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy > > > > > > > > > > > gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of > > > > > > > > > > > course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but > > > > > > > > > > > psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself > > > > > > > > > > > and others.
> > > > > > > > > > > Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade > > > > > > > > > > > was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well- > > > > > > > > > > > documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of > > > > > > > > > > > child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. > > > > > > > > > > > Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in > > > > > > > > > > > his bed, often by their parents.
> > > > > > > > > > > One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which > > > > > > > > > > > would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 > > > > > > > > > > > million. He beat another case in court.
> > > > > > > > > > > The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is > > > > > > > > > > > yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We > > > > > > > > > > > don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.
> > > > > > > > > > > As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
> > > > > > > > > > That's the best article on Jackson I've read since his death. I'm > > > > > > > > > > incredibly bored with puff pieces, claims about Jacko's supposed > > > > > > > > > > "musical genius," and with credulous idiots who buy his "Peter Pan" > > > > > > > > > > facade at face value. Thanks, Fatt!- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > > > > > > > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > > > > > > > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > > > > > > > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > > > > > > > > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > > > > > > > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > > > > > > > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > > > > > > > > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > > > > > > > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > > > > > > > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > > > > > > > > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > > > > > > > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > > > > > > > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > > > > > > > > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > 25 million dollar pay-out, just so he stays out of prison? > > > > > > > Guilty.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > Not good enough reasoning. What about the kid's family, who accepted > > > > > > the pay out?, doesn't it look like that was all they wanted?.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > You can stick up for him all you want, in my opinon he was a > > > > > pervert that did not care for the safety of his own kids, > > > > > remember him hanging his kid over the balcolny? > > > > > They kid should have been taken away right then and there and him > > > > > being charged with child-endangerment.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > So your opinion is he was a pervert. Well, like you said, that is an > > > > opinion, not an argument. I am interested in the facts. And there > > > > isn't enough evidence to consider him a pervert.
> > > > As for the baby in the balcony, it was reckless, but not as much as > > > > the papers made it seem. It's not like he left the baby alone in the > > > > balcony or something.
> > > Reckless is reckless. Anyone who dangles a baby from a > > > balcony should have their child taken away from them, > > > IMO.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > I'm not sure what "dangle" means,
> Dangle means doing what he did.
> but he just held him there for a few
> > seconds.
> It doesn't matter. He could have caused that > child's death..in one second.
> There are accidents involving children all the time,
> Yes, but this was no accident. He did it on purpose, > and thank God there was no accident.
> > > > > > > > > > > Interesting OP ED in the NY Times:
> > > > > > > > > > > Op-Ed Columnist > > > > > > > > > > > Behind the Facade > > > > > > > > > > > By BOB HERBERT > > > > > > > > > > > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > > > > > > > > > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > > > > > > > > > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > > > > > > > > > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> > > > > > > > > > > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > > > > > > > > > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > > > > > > > > > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > > > > > > > > > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > > > > > > > > > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> > > > > > > > > > > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > > > > > > > > > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > > > > > > > > > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > > > > > > > > > > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > > > > > > > > > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> > > > > > > > > > > I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the > > > > > > > > > > > relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought > > > > > > > > > > > more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of > > > > > > > > > > > extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already > > > > > > > > > > > well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly > > > > > > > > > > > broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a > > > > > > > > > > > shining and ultimately tragic example. . . . . . . . . . .
> > > > > > > > > > > Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and > > > > > > > > > > > his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already > > > > > > > > > > > reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning > > > > > > > > > > > originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and > > > > > > > > > > > the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been > > > > > > > > > > > done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of > > > > > > > > > > > gangsta rap.
> > > > > > > > > > > All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the > > > > > > > > > > > adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would > > > > > > > > > > > be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > > Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly > > > > > > > > > > > limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network > > > > > > > > > > > television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of > > > > > > > > > > > men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed > > > > > > > > > > > fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising > > > > > > > > > > > taxes.
> > > > > > > > > > > In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to > > > > > > > > > > > leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world > > > > > > > > > > > behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up > > > > > > > > > > > staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped > > > > > > > > > > > jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about > > > > > > > > > > > how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.
> > > > > > > > > > > Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy > > > > > > > > > > > gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of > > > > > > > > > > > course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but > > > > > > > > > > > psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself > > > > > > > > > > > and others.
> > > > > > > > > > > Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade > > > > > > > > > > > was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well- > > > > > > > > > > > documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of > > > > > > > > > > > child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. > > > > > > > > > > > Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in > > > > > > > > > > > his bed, often by their parents.
> > > > > > > > > > > One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which > > > > > > > > > > > would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 > > > > > > > > > > > million. He beat another case in court.
> > > > > > > > > > > The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is > > > > > > > > > > > yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We > > > > > > > > > > > don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.
> > > > > > > > > > > As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
> > > > > > > > > > That's the best article on Jackson I've read since his death. I'm > > > > > > > > > > incredibly bored with puff pieces, claims about Jacko's supposed > > > > > > > > > > "musical genius," and with credulous idiots who buy his "Peter Pan" > > > > > > > > > > facade at face value. Thanks, Fatt!- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > > > > > > > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > > > > > > > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > > > > > > > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > > > > > > > > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > > > > > > > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > > > > > > > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > > > > > > > > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > > > > > > > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > > > > > > > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > > > > > > > > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > > > > > > > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > > > > > > > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > > > > > > > > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > 25 million dollar pay-out, just so he stays out of prison? > > > > > > > Guilty.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > Not good enough reasoning. What about the kid's family, who accepted > > > > > > the pay out?, doesn't it look like that was all they wanted?.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > You can stick up for him all you want, in my opinon he was a > > > > > pervert that did not care for the safety of his own kids, > > > > > remember him hanging his kid over the balcolny? > > > > > They kid should have been taken away right then and there and him > > > > > being charged with child-endangerment.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > So your opinion is he was a pervert. Well, like you said, that is an > > > > opinion, not an argument. I am interested in the facts. And there > > > > isn't enough evidence to consider him a pervert.
> > > > As for the baby in the balcony, it was reckless, but not as much as > > > > the papers made it seem. It's not like he left the baby alone in the > > > > balcony or something.
> > > Reckless is reckless. Anyone who dangles a baby from a > > > balcony should have their child taken away from them, > > > IMO.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > I'm not sure what "dangle" means,
> Dangle means doing what he did.
> but he just held him there for a few
> > seconds.
> It doesn't matter. He could have caused that > child's death..in one second.
> There are accidents involving children all the time,
> Yes, but this was no accident. He did it on purpose, > and thank God there was no accident.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> On 5 jul, 17:11, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > > > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > > > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > > > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > > > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > The claim of child abuse does bother me. Yes, the author is perhaps > > too harsh.
> > But there is no question that Michael Jackson longed for the company > > of children, particularly pre teen boys. I've read too much about it. > > And I saw the interview Michael Jackson gave to Martin Bashir. Did you > > see that? It was very weird.
> > Jackson befriended a pre teen boy . . . .he may have been a cancer > > patient. The kid was sitting next to Michael during an interview and > > told Bashir on camera something to the effect of, "I want to sleep in > > his bed. I really want to sleep in his bed." And IIRC Jackson made > > some remark that the kid begged to sleep in his bed so Jackson told > > Bashir he said, "Yes" but he slept on the floor.
> > During the interview Michael and this boy were holding hands. Tightly. > > Fingers interlocked. Like boyfriend and girlfriend. Or like the way > > a parent might hold the hand of a 6 year old child while crossing the > > street.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> I haven't seen the documentary. Maybe when I finish with my exams I > will. But I have seen that part of the interview on TV. It did look > a little weird, but I've only seen a part of it, and it seems Bashir, > the interviewer, isn't particularly objective... Plus, Michael did > look pretty strange due to all the platic surgery.
I thought Bashir was pretty nasty at times. I'm very surprised Michael tolerated it.
Nowadays some celebrities are a bit wiser and insist on having more control over the finished product.
> Anyway, The kid was not a pre-teen, he was like 12. He was a cancer > survivor. From what I've read, Michael befriended him and his family, > paying for his treatment and all. It seems they were all living in > his house. That kid is the one who made the accusations that led to > the 2003 trial. He claimed though, that the abuse went on after the > interview took place.
I don't recall all the details. It is my understanding that at first when this kid brought up the issue of sleeping in Michael's bed, he claimed there was nothing sexual or inappropriate. However, after the filming he changed his tune and accused MJ of sexual impropriety which led to the criminal charges.
As you know the jury acquitted Jackson of all charges. However, a juror or two did make unflattering comments after the trial suggesting that Jackson's behavior came damn close and/or suggesting he should change his behavior.
My point is I don't know if Jackson every did anything sexual as claimed or gave any children wine as claimed. However, the Bob Herbert editorial does ring true as far as Michael's strange and almost unhealthy interest in befriending and "hanging out" with 12 year old boys.
BTW, I getting back to that boy in the Martin Bashir film, I'm not sure that the parents were living in Michael's house. Yes, Michael tended to be very generous to fans and other people, and he certainly was generous to these boys that he had befriended. But IMO that generosity may mask a certain "weird" motive.
Jackson struck me as very lonely and unhappy that he missed out on his childhood. He should not have used his fame and wealth to befriend 12 year old boys much less have them in his bedroom for any reason.
> You know, I don't remember if I said it here, but I had kind of > assumed that the acusations were true, 'cause it wasn't the first > accusation, and because he acted in what seemed such a strange way, > particularly his turning his skin white. But now that he died I went > and read about it, about the trial and accusations, and they look > quite weak. It's just testimonials (and many of those witnesses seem > quite unreliable) against him, and testimonials on favour of him, like > Macauly Culkin, of kids who spet time with him and even slept in his > bed and who insis that nothing happened.
That is why I don't want to accuse Jackson of sexual stuff. But IMO Culkin should not have been sleeping in Jackson's bed. The man had a huge, huge house. Why is he having all these kids in his bedroom? There are no other bedrooms?
> > > > > Op-Ed Columnist > > > > > Behind the Facade > > > > > By BOB HERBERT > > > > > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > > > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > > > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > > > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> > > > > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > > > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > > > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > > > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > > > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> > > > > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > > > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > > > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > > > > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > > > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > > > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > > > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> > > > > I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the > > > > > relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought > > > > > more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of > > > > > extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already > > > > > well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly > > > > > broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a > > > > > shining and ultimately tragic example. . . . . . . . . . .
> > > > > Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and > > > > > his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already > > > > > reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning > > > > > originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and > > > > > the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been > > > > > done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of > > > > > gangsta rap.
> > > > > All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the > > > > > adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would > > > > > be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. > > > > > Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly > > > > > limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network > > > > > television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of > > > > > men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed > > > > > fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising > > > > > taxes.
> > > > > In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to > > > > > leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world > > > > > behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up > > > > > staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped > > > > > jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about > > > > > how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.
> > > > > Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy > > > > > gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of > > > > > course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but > > > > > psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself > > > > > and others.
> > > > > Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade > > > > > was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well- > > > > > documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of > > > > > child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. > > > > > Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. > > > > > Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in > > > > > his bed, often by their parents.
> > > > > One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which > > > > > would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 > > > > > million. He beat another case in court.
> > > > > The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an > > > > > appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is > > > > > yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We > > > > > don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.
> > > > > As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
> > > > That's the best article on Jackson I've read since his death. I'm > > > > incredibly bored with puff pieces, claims about Jacko's supposed > > > > "musical genius," and with credulous idiots who buy his "Peter Pan" > > > > facade at face value. Thanks, Fatt!- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> 25 million dollar pay-out, just so he stays out of prison? > Guilty.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
That was the first accuser; I think his last name was Chandler.
> > > > > > > Op-Ed Columnist > > > > > > > Behind the Facade > > > > > > > By BOB HERBERT > > > > > > > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > > > > > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > > > > > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > > > > > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> > > > > > > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > > > > > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > > > > > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > > > > > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > > > > > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> > > > > > > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > > > > > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > > > > > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > > > > > > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > > > > > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > > > > > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > > > > > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> > > > > > > I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the > > > > > > > relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought > > > > > > > more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of > > > > > > > extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already > > > > > > > well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly > > > > > > > broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a > > > > > > > shining and ultimately tragic example. . . . . . . . . . .
> > > > > > > Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and > > > > > > > his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already > > > > > > > reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning > > > > > > > originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and > > > > > > > the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been > > > > > > > done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of > > > > > > > gangsta rap.
> > > > > > > All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the > > > > > > > adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would > > > > > > > be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. > > > > > > > Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly > > > > > > > limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network > > > > > > > television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of > > > > > > > men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed > > > > > > > fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising > > > > > > > taxes.
> > > > > > > In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to > > > > > > > leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world > > > > > > > behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up > > > > > > > staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped > > > > > > > jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about > > > > > > > how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.
> > > > > > > Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy > > > > > > > gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of > > > > > > > course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but > > > > > > > psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself > > > > > > > and others.
> > > > > > > Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade > > > > > > > was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well- > > > > > > > documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of > > > > > > > child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. > > > > > > > Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. > > > > > > > Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in > > > > > > > his bed, often by their parents.
> > > > > > > One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which > > > > > > > would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 > > > > > > > million. He beat another case in court.
> > > > > > > The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an > > > > > > > appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is > > > > > > > yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We > > > > > > > don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.
> > > > > > > As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
> > > > > > That's the best article on Jackson I've read since his death. I'm > > > > > > incredibly bored with puff pieces, claims about Jacko's supposed > > > > > > "musical genius," and with credulous idiots who buy his "Peter Pan" > > > > > > facade at face value. Thanks, Fatt!- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > > > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > > > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > > > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > > > > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > > > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > > > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > > > > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > > > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > > > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > > > > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > > > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > > > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > > > > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > 25 million dollar pay-out, just so he stays out of prison? > > > Guilty.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > Not good enough reasoning. What about the kid's family, who accepted > > the pay out?, doesn't it look like that was all they wanted?.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> Plus, the first kid (cannot remember his name, but he's clearly the > one you're talking about),
> told his father, given to him by his father. And his mother said she > didn't think Michael had abused him. And the police interviewed the > other kids who would hang around in Michael's house, including Macauly > Culkin, and couldn't find someone to support the accusations.- Hide quoted text -
On Jul 5, 9:48 pm, F Parella <f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 5, 5:55 pm, Crisstti <crissttigalda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > And he had vitiligo, that is why he was white.
> That's what Jacko said. I don't believe it. Vitiligo does not whiten > skin in the way that Jacko's skin whitened. Since you're one of the > people in this group who is not afraid of reading, I'd encourage you > to read up on that skin affliction.
Jacko's claim was that he had vitiligo which gave him an uneven, spotted appearance. Therefore, in order to have an even, "normal" looking complexion, he bleached his skin.
> > > > Op-Ed Columnist > > > > Behind the Facade > > > > By BOB HERBERT > > > > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> > > > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> > > > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > > > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> > > > I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the > > > > relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought > > > > more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of > > > > extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already > > > > well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly > > > > broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a > > > > shining and ultimately tragic example. . . . . . . . . . .
> > > > Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and > > > > his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already > > > > reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning > > > > originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and > > > > the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been > > > > done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of > > > > gangsta rap.
> > > > All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the > > > > adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would > > > > be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. > > > > Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly > > > > limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network > > > > television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of > > > > men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed > > > > fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising > > > > taxes.
> > > > In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to > > > > leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world > > > > behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up > > > > staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped > > > > jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about > > > > how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.
> > > > Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy > > > > gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of > > > > course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but > > > > psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself > > > > and others.
> > > > Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade > > > > was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well- > > > > documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of > > > > child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. > > > > Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. > > > > Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in > > > > his bed, often by their parents.
> > > > One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which > > > > would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 > > > > million. He beat another case in court.
> > > > The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an > > > > appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is > > > > yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We > > > > don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.
> > > > As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
> > > That's the best article on Jackson I've read since his death. I'm > > > incredibly bored with puff pieces, claims about Jacko's supposed > > > "musical genius," and with credulous idiots who buy his "Peter Pan" > > > facade at face value. Thanks, Fatt!- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
FYI, Gavin (the boy), Michael Jackson and the bed:
On Jul 5, 11:05 pm, Crisstti <crissttigalda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5 jul, 22:48, FParella<f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 5, 5:55 pm, Crisstti <crissttigalda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > And he had vitiligo, that is why he was white.
> > BTW, I think Jacko cooked up some equally untrue explanation for that > > alterations in his facial structure - to McCartney, who later repeated > > it mockingly. Anyone who thinks the alterations in Jackson's > > appearance occurred naturally is extremely naive.
> I don't think his facial structure alterations ocurred naturally. He > clearly has many (way too many) plastic surgeries. He seemed to have > body dismorphic disorder, as I have said before here. > About his skin colour, I already talked about above.
It looked at first as if Jackson was trying to transform himself into an androgynous caucasian. But things got out of hand, and he began to look like a cartoon, and then, finally, some sort of monster. I have heard Jackson's claim that he was struck with vitiligo, and that he resorted to the bleaching cream to even out the splotchy effects of the vitiligo. That is possible, of course (on the other hand, couldn't have used some darkening agent, for an evenly dark-skinned - and, moreover, true to his natural skin tone - look?), but it seems awfully convenient that the alleged vitiligo struck precisely as Jackson was beginning to restructure his face, through plastic surgery, into something more caucasian.
Randy Terraborrelli, who wrote one of the Jackson bios, recently said that it was not so much a hatred of his being black that motivated Jackson's bizarre reshaping of himself, but a fear of looking like his father.
> By the way, I haven't ever heard Paul say anything about that. Do you > have a link?.
I had read it in a magazine, not online. IIRC, McCartney said that Jackson had told him he would be going off to a religious retreat. Then, the next time he (Macca) saw Jackson, MJ's face was completely different. McCartney added sarcastically, "Power of prayer, I suppose."
> > > > > > > > > > > Interesting OP ED in the NY Times:
> > > > > > > > > > > Op-Ed Columnist > > > > > > > > > > > Behind the Facade > > > > > > > > > > > By BOB HERBERT > > > > > > > > > > > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > > > > > > > > > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > > > > > > > > > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > > > > > > > > > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> > > > > > > > > > > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > > > > > > > > > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > > > > > > > > > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > > > > > > > > > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > > > > > > > > > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> > > > > > > > > > > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > > > > > > > > > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > > > > > > > > > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > > > > > > > > > > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > > > > > > > > > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> > > > > > > > > > > I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the > > > > > > > > > > > relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought > > > > > > > > > > > more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of > > > > > > > > > > > extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already > > > > > > > > > > > well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly > > > > > > > > > > > broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a > > > > > > > > > > > shining and ultimately tragic example. . . . . . . . . . .
> > > > > > > > > > > Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and > > > > > > > > > > > his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already > > > > > > > > > > > reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning > > > > > > > > > > > originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and > > > > > > > > > > > the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been > > > > > > > > > > > done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of > > > > > > > > > > > gangsta rap.
> > > > > > > > > > > All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the > > > > > > > > > > > adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would > > > > > > > > > > > be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > > Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly > > > > > > > > > > > limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network > > > > > > > > > > > television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of > > > > > > > > > > > men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed > > > > > > > > > > > fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising > > > > > > > > > > > taxes.
> > > > > > > > > > > In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to > > > > > > > > > > > leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world > > > > > > > > > > > behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up > > > > > > > > > > > staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped > > > > > > > > > > > jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about > > > > > > > > > > > how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.
> > > > > > > > > > > Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy > > > > > > > > > > > gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of > > > > > > > > > > > course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but > > > > > > > > > > > psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself > > > > > > > > > > > and others.
> > > > > > > > > > > Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade > > > > > > > > > > > was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well- > > > > > > > > > > > documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of > > > > > > > > > > > child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. > > > > > > > > > > > Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in > > > > > > > > > > > his bed, often by their parents.
> > > > > > > > > > > One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which > > > > > > > > > > > would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 > > > > > > > > > > > million. He beat another case in court.
> > > > > > > > > > > The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is > > > > > > > > > > > yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We > > > > > > > > > > > don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.
> > > > > > > > > > > As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
> > > > > > > > > > That's the best article on Jackson I've read since his death. I'm > > > > > > > > > > incredibly bored with puff pieces, claims about Jacko's supposed > > > > > > > > > > "musical genius," and with credulous idiots who buy his "Peter Pan" > > > > > > > > > > facade at face value. Thanks, Fatt!- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > > > > > > > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > > > > > > > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > > > > > > > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > > > > > > > > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > > > > > > > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > > > > > > > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > > > > > > > > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > > > > > > > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > > > > > > > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > > > > > > > > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > > > > > > > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > > > > > > > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > > > > > > > > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > 25 million dollar pay-out, just so he stays out of prison? > > > > > > > Guilty.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > Not good enough reasoning. What about the kid's family, who accepted > > > > > > the pay out?, doesn't it look like that was all they wanted?.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > You can stick up for him all you want, in my opinon he was a > > > > > pervert that did not care for the safety of his own kids, > > > > > remember him hanging his kid over the balcolny? > > > > > They kid should have been taken away right then and there and him > > > > > being charged with child-endangerment.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > So your opinion is he was a pervert. Well, like you said, that is an > > > > opinion, not an argument. I am interested in the facts. And there > > > > isn't enough evidence to consider him a pervert.
> > > > As for the baby in the balcony, it was reckless, but not as much as > > > > the papers made it seem. It's not like he left the baby alone in the > > > > balcony or something.
> > > Reckless is reckless. Anyone who dangles a baby from a > > > balcony should have their child taken away from them, > > > IMO.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > I'm not sure what "dangle" means, but he just held him there for a few > > seconds. There are accidents involving children all the time, > > children gettnig burned, for example, and that pretty much always > > involves some kind of reckless behaviour from the parents or whoever > > had them in their care. I don't see those children being taken > > away... So I think you're over reacting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting OP ED in the NY Times:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Op-Ed Columnist > > > > > > > > > > > > Behind the Facade > > > > > > > > > > > > By BOB HERBERT > > > > > > > > > > > > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > > > > > > > > > > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > > > > > > > > > > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > > > > > > > > > > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > > > > > > > > > > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > > > > > > > > > > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > > > > > > > > > > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > > > > > > > > > > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > > > > > > > > > > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > > > > > > > > > > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > > > > > > > > > > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the > > > > > > > > > > > > relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought > > > > > > > > > > > > more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of > > > > > > > > > > > > extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already > > > > > > > > > > > > well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly > > > > > > > > > > > > broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a > > > > > > > > > > > > shining and ultimately tragic example. . . . . . . . . . .
> > > > > > > > > > > > Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and > > > > > > > > > > > > his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already > > > > > > > > > > > > reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning > > > > > > > > > > > > originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and > > > > > > > > > > > > the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been > > > > > > > > > > > > done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of > > > > > > > > > > > > gangsta rap.
> > > > > > > > > > > > All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the > > > > > > > > > > > > adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would > > > > > > > > > > > > be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > > > Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly > > > > > > > > > > > > limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network > > > > > > > > > > > > television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of > > > > > > > > > > > > men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising > > > > > > > > > > > > taxes.
> > > > > > > > > > > > In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to > > > > > > > > > > > > leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world > > > > > > > > > > > > behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up > > > > > > > > > > > > staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped > > > > > > > > > > > > jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about > > > > > > > > > > > > how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy > > > > > > > > > > > > gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of > > > > > > > > > > > > course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but > > > > > > > > > > > > psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself > > > > > > > > > > > > and others.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade > > > > > > > > > > > > was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well- > > > > > > > > > > > > documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of > > > > > > > > > > > > child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. > > > > > > > > > > > > Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in > > > > > > > > > > > > his bed, often by their parents.
> > > > > > > > > > > > One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which > > > > > > > > > > > > would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 > > > > > > > > > > > > million. He beat another case in court.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is > > > > > > > > > > > > yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We > > > > > > > > > > > > don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.
> > > > > > > > > > > > As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
> > > > > > > > > > > That's the best article on Jackson I've read since his death. I'm > > > > > > > > > > > incredibly bored with puff pieces, claims about Jacko's supposed > > > > > > > > > > > "musical genius," and with credulous idiots who buy his "Peter Pan" > > > > > > > > > > > facade at face value. Thanks, Fatt!- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > > As a Jackson fan, I am saddened by his death, and frankly, I do enjoy > > > > > > > > > > the puff pieces. They are comforting at this difficult time. > > > > > > > > > > However, I must admit that the aboved op/ed piece struck me as > > > > > > > > > > objective, realistic and honest.
> > > > > > > > > > MJ was very talented and a wonderful entertainer, but beneath that > > > > > > > > > > surgically altered appearance, there was a very dark side. I think he > > > > > > > > > > was a tormented, suffering soul.
> > > > > > > > > > Herbert's comments about Emmanuel Lewis are both shocking and > > > > > > > > > > honest . . . . Jackson seemed to be very entertained by Lewis, > > > > > > > > > > treating him "almost as a pet."
> > > > > > > > > > I don't claim that Jackson engaged in any sexual impropriety, but > > > > > > > > > > there is something very wrong when a grown man does not relate much to > > > > > > > > > > other adults and has such a fascination with children.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > > Sorry Fattuchus, but there's nothing objective about that piece. And > > > > > > > > > he doesn claim that Michael was a child abuser.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > > > 25 million dollar pay-out, just so he stays out of prison? > > > > > > > > Guilty.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > > Not good enough reasoning. What about the kid's family, who accepted > > > > > > > the pay out?, doesn't it look like that was all they wanted?.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > You can stick up for him all you want, in my opinon he was a > > > > > > pervert that did not care for the safety of his own kids, > > > > > > remember him hanging his kid over the balcolny? > > > > > > They kid should have been taken away right then and there and him > > > > > > being charged with child-endangerment.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > > > So your opinion is he was a pervert. Well, like you said, that is an > > > > > opinion, not an argument. I am interested in the facts. And there > > > > > isn't enough evidence to consider him a pervert.
> > > > > As for the baby in the balcony, it was reckless, but not as much as > > > > > the papers made it seem. It's not like he left the baby alone in the > > > > > balcony or something.
> > > > Reckless is reckless. Anyone who dangles a baby from a > > > > balcony should have their child taken away from them, > > > > IMO.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
> > > > - Mostrar texto de la cita -
> > > I'm not sure what "dangle" means, but he just held him there for a few > > > seconds. There
On 07 Jul 2009, Jeff <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in rec.music.beatles:
> On Jul 7, 12:35 pm, F Parella <f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> The baby-dangling was particularly dangerous given the amount of >> drugs & alcohol (or "Jesus juice") Jackson is alleged to have >> consumed.
> Really? Thanks, FP. I wasn't aware of this.
Nor could you be aware of it. I don't believe there is any evidence that Jackson was drunk or high at the time of the dangling baby incident. IOW, FP made that up on his own.
On 7 jul, 15:19, Nil <redno...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
> On 07 Jul 2009, Jeff <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in > rec.music.beatles:
> > On Jul 7, 12:35 pm, F Parella <f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> The baby-dangling was particularly dangerous given the amount of > >> drugs & alcohol (or "Jesus juice") Jackson is alleged to have > >> consumed.
> > Really? Thanks, FP. I wasn't aware of this.
> Nor could you be aware of it. I don't believe there is any evidence > that Jackson was drunk or high at the time of the dangling baby > incident. IOW, FP made that up on his own.
On Jul 7, 3:19 pm, Nil <redno...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
> On 07 Jul 2009, Jeff <yourimageunre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in > rec.music.beatles:
> > On Jul 7, 12:35 pm, FParella<f_pare...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> The baby-dangling was particularly dangerous given the amount of > >> drugs & alcohol (or "Jesus juice") Jackson is alleged to have > >> consumed.
> > Really? Thanks, FP. I wasn't aware of this.
> Nor could you be aware of it. I don't believe there is any evidence > that Jackson was drunk or high at the time of the dangling baby > incident. IOW, FP made that up on his own.
I don't know that Jackson was loaded at the precise time he dangled the baby, no. But word has been circulating about Jacko's ingestion of dangerously large quantities of prescription drugs - and his mixing them with alcohol - for at least ten years. Immediately after Jackson's death, Jackson's advisor Rabbi Shmuley and his attorney Brian Oxman - in fact, even Jacko's pal Uri Geller - admitted that they had been worried for some time about Jackson's drug use, that he had been surrounded by "enablers" of this drug use, et cetera. No one in his right mind would entrust young children to such an unstable person.
I just want to point out the absurdity and complete lack of objectivity of the article, with a part of it:
> Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
So meeting Michael Jackson was one of the creepiest experiences of his life. Why?. Here's his explanation:
> I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
He bases that in...?
> Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
So Michael had treated the kid as a pet (according to the writer). He had laughed because he had climed over furniture. WOW. How shocking. He calls that one of the creepiest experiences of his life?. Either he has had very little world experience, or he's lying out of his teeth.
> I just want to point out the absurdity and complete lack of > objectivity of the article, with a part of it:
> > Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier > > experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to > > present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of > > onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.
> So meeting Michael Jackson was one of the creepiest experiences of his > life. Why?. Here's his explanation:
> > I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, > > couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There > > was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He > > seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being > > to step outside of reality and leave it behind.
> He bases that in...?
> > Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was > > with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the > > time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.
> > Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy > > and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to > > Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that > > Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.
> So Michael had treated the kid as a pet (according to the writer). He > had laughed because he had climed over furniture. WOW. How > shocking. He calls that one of the creepiest experiences of his > life?. Either he has had very little world experience, or he's lying > out of his teeth.
You liked him, good for you. He sang and danced, good for him.
On Jul 9, 7:44 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
> WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU, FATS? JACKSON WAS A COON. A JUNGLE > BUNNY. A PORCH MONKEY. A ZOG. A KNUCKLE-DRAGGER.
> A NIGGER
Are you addressing me? There is nothing wrong with me. (although Dave thinks so, I guess. BFD.)
BTW, you are entitled to your opinions (as offensive as I find them) but could you do me a favor? Racist language such as the language you've displayed over and over is upsetting to me and probably to some others here. Could you please stop it? Thanks.
And Michael Jackson was a tremendous talent who brought joy to millions around the world. He was also a father, a son and a brother, and I'm sure his family is devastated right now.
On Jul 10, 3:12 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 9, 7:44 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
> > WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU, FATS? JACKSON WAS A COON. A JUNGLE > > BUNNY. A PORCH MONKEY. A ZOG. A KNUCKLE-DRAGGER.
> > A NIGGER
> Are you addressing me? There is nothing wrong with me. (although Dave > thinks so, I guess. BFD.)
NO. I'M TALKING TO THE FUCKING WALL HERE. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I’M TALKING TO?
> BTW, you are entitled to your opinions (as offensive as I find them) > but could you do me a favor? Racist language such as the language > you've displayed over and over is upsetting to me and probably to some > others here. Could you please stop it? Thanks.
YOUR POSTINGS CONCERNING THIS MALICIOUS SAVAGE HAVE NO FUCKING PLACE IN THIS GROUP. THEY ARE OFFENSIVE TO ME. IT GIVES YOUR AGE AWAY, AS WELL. IT SHOWS EVERYONE JUST HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW ABOUT THE MUSIC YOU SAY YOU LOVE AND WHAT A CHUMP YOU MUST REALLY BE.
> And Michael Jackson was a tremendous talent who brought joy to > millions around the world. He was also a father, a son and a brother, > and I'm sure his family is devastated right now.
HE WAS A NO-COUNT PEDOPHILE NIGGER. AN INFERIOR BLACK BEAST. A SUB- HUMAN RELIC FROM 10,000 YEARS PAST. A SAVAGE ANIMAL WHO GOES AROUND FOOLING LITTLE WHITE CHUMPS LIKE YOU SIMPLY BECAUSE HE WALKS ERECT LIKE A MAN. HE IS nothing. NOTHING THAT LITTLE AFRICAN ASS-PIMPLE EVER DID WILL BE REMEMBERED IN 30 YEARS. HE WAS EVEN A DISGRACE TO HIS OWN RACE. HE HATED HIS OWN BLACKNESS TO THE POINT WHERE HE EVEN TRIED TO DYE HIS SKIN.
FUCK HIM. THE LITTLE AFRICAN JUNGLE COON. AND FUCK you FOR LOVING IT...
> On Jul 10, 3:12 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 7:44 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU, FATS? JACKSON WAS A COON. A JUNGLE > > > BUNNY. A PORCH MONKEY. A ZOG. A KNUCKLE-DRAGGER.
> > > A NIGGER
> > Are you addressing me? There is nothing wrong with me. (although Dave > > thinks so, I guess. BFD.)
> NO. I'M TALKING TO THE FUCKING WALL HERE. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK > I’M TALKING TO?
> > BTW, you are entitled to your opinions (as offensive as I find them) > > but could you do me a favor? Racist language such as the language > > you've displayed over and over is upsetting to me and probably to some > > others here. Could you please stop it? Thanks.
> YOUR POSTINGS CONCERNING THIS MALICIOUS SAVAGE HAVE NO FUCKING PLACE > IN THIS GROUP. THEY ARE OFFENSIVE TO ME. IT GIVES YOUR AGE AWAY, AS > WELL. IT SHOWS EVERYONE JUST HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW ABOUT THE MUSIC YOU > SAY YOU LOVE AND WHAT A CHUMP YOU MUST REALLY BE.
> > And Michael Jackson was a tremendous talent who brought joy to > > millions around the world. He was also a father, a son and a brother, > > and I'm sure his family is devastated right now.
> HE WAS A NO-COUNT PEDOPHILE NIGGER. AN INFERIOR BLACK BEAST. A SUB- > HUMAN RELIC FROM 10,000 YEARS PAST. A SAVAGE ANIMAL WHO GOES AROUND > FOOLING LITTLE WHITE CHUMPS LIKE YOU SIMPLY BECAUSE HE WALKS ERECT > LIKE A MAN. HE IS nothing. NOTHING THAT LITTLE AFRICAN ASS-PIMPLE EVER > DID WILL BE REMEMBERED IN 30 YEARS. HE WAS EVEN A DISGRACE TO HIS OWN > RACE. HE HATED HIS OWN BLACKNESS TO THE POINT WHERE HE EVEN TRIED TO > DYE HIS SKIN.
> FUCK HIM. THE LITTLE AFRICAN JUNGLE COON. AND FUCK you FOR LOVING > IT...
> tHE nICE mEAN mAN
Will you stop trying to get a reaction out of people..who you think will bite? Jeez, and call me an asshole again. I enjoy it. :-)
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