This was my first samurai ascension, as well as my first illiterate and first genoless conduct ascension. I haven't played lawful or combat-focused characters before this, so lots of new experiences. I want to thank David Damerell for his Object Identification Spoiler, which I consult regularly in every game, but never as much as I did for illiterate! The whole combination was quite fun to play. I got a ridiculous number of wishes given that I couldn't recharge any /oW.
In all of my past ascensions I have read b?oGeno on Water for ; and again on Astral for L, so I was a little apprehensive, but it turned out they weren't as bad as I expected. I confess I got very lucky with finding portals on the planes (given no ?oGD), though I did have to visit all three altars to win.
[Screen shot and final stats are at the bottom, after the game timeline and "lessons learned" (my running notes during the game)]
GAME TIMELINE/NOTES
started as St:15 Dx:14 Co:18 In:13 Wi:7 Ch:8 found [oSpeed, +1 dwarven helm in DL2 armor shop at Oracle: caught between 12 killer bees (level above), jaguar (level below) ...in the red, but not quite enough to pray for healing ...managed to kill enough bees with yumi/ya to get +1 XL, bonus HP ...now is when we miss the E-word Sokoban level 2: had just started a tricky set of moves... ...when *3* soldier ants appeared behind, cutting off only escape ...fortunately only one at a time (this was a close one) ...killed 1st, #pray for heal during 2nd, +1 XL bonus HP during 3rd ...and my reward? /oW (0:2) woo hoo! plus 2 tins of spinach, this level now with [oMR and SDSM (AC:-6, Str:18/04) you'll never guess what I found on Sokoban level 3? yup, another /oW (0:3) ...sad that I'm lawful/illiterate; PYEC will evade my grasp, no b? oCharg Sokoban was "oR version (can't have everything) ...off to the Mines with AC:-11, MR, reflection Mines were uneventful throne #2 gave a wish -- got (oH since I have most everything else DL13 co-aligned temple priest gave AC +3 for first protection all the way down to Medusa with *no* intrinsics (except initial speed) ...only two floating eyes (left no corpses), etc. wow... the Medusa titan is peaceful ...first time with titan variant of Medusa as a lawful back to stash to price-ID/behavior-ID stuff ...so far !oLev is my only way of crossing water off to do a sacfest: ^magic in same room with altar on DL22 ...WOULDN'T you know it: charismatic, magical explosion ...not a single creature to #offer all the way back up to DL5: ^magic not too far from altar ...this one lasted longer; lots of potions etc., no crowning ...with no /oCrMon and no other ^magic, time to move on after ID, we now have =oLev =oConf and [oJump illiterate players do a lot more walking this game has the most altars (5) and temples (4) I've ever seen ...not including Sanctum and Astral invisible demilich at Medusa lets me dagger him to death, doesn't move? ...turns out he was at a dead-end, next to a dart trap; wouldn't cross it was *carefully* approaching a mind flayer in a maze, intending ranged attack ...stepped into line-of-sight to throw daggers, but he threw !oPara first ...he had time to run up 5 squares, suck my brain once (no grease yet) finally got poison res., level above Castle (really, really late) Medusa + mazes + Castle + VotD: went from XL12 to XL14 just by killing ...then VotD had 2 wraith corpses, so XL16 ...met Yeenoghu at the VotD this game has Ft. Ludios ...soldier had /oDeath, grabbed it after only 1 charge used ...so, this game had 6 thrones total; none gave ID (for luckstone) ...got more protection; wished for a touchstone (to ID luckstone) another big sacfest ...finally got crowned (still didn't have fire/cold yet) ...only gave Snickersnee before /oCrMon ran out ...found "oESP; /oPoly netted us grease, stethoscope, tooled horn time for the Quest ...ended up with 5 !oGL, around 25 !oEH: now XL:21 HP:306 AC:-20 ...ninja (kunoichi) aren't too bad; joshu, ryoshu are tougher ...those are all samurai XP levels; see xplv-343.txt ...man, look at all the loot this quest yields ...especially wands; don't bother bringing attack wands next time ...quest nemesis died easily to /oDeath ...and then ninja in room grabbed the Tsurugi (whoops!) ...another /oDeath shot, just to be sure; the Tsurugi is mine decided to ascend with the Tsurugi (rather than wish for Frost Brand) ...as illiterate, can't ?oEW -- looks like +0 Tsurugi does more damage thoroughly enjoyed my first lich beheading ..."teleport out of *that*, pal!" Gehennom ...first time I'm not able to pay off the demon princes ...Asmodeus was wily: alternates /oFire /oCold and attacks ...trickier than usual to beat him to the upstair ...and: had a "oLS, so had to kill him twice ...this is turning out to be "the game of mazes and mind flayers" ...have seen 5 in mazes, so far; 2 at Orcus, 1 at Vlad ...Orcus, in one summon: two arch-liches, two master mind flayers, ...and two black dragons; one disintegrated Orcus (and his / oDeath) ...well, that was exciting; Tsurugi-bisecting arch-liches FTW ...kept mind flayers at a distance this time ascension preparation ...wasn't able to get intrinsic teleport control (peaceful tengus) ...first game not using teleportation at all; will ascend without it ...the game didn't yield a single /oEnli !oEnli or throne/fountain enli ...a lot of rings/amulets remained unIDed, but nothing crucial ascension run ...greeted at Sanctum stair by arch-lich, master lich ...stood on stair and bashed them, but they summoned monsters twice ...disenchanter trapped next to me did -1 to my [oMR (now AC:19) ...one of the monsters was cockatrice though ...lasted for the whole level; made tons of Sanctum statues ...greeted at Vibrating Square by arch-lich ...first time making one peaceful with blessed Book of the Dead ...tally of Rodney ...nervous T:45448 T:45614 ...curse aura T:45851 (only got wands) ...force field 44->44 44->45 ...nervous T:46068 ...force field 31->32 ...nervous T:46221 ...curse aura T:46343 (got bag of holding, candelabrum) ...nervous T:46584 T:46637 ...summoned T:46790 ...greeting on Earth T:46880 (one shot /oDeath) ...reappeared on Air T:46970 (one shot /oDeath) ...curse aura @Astral T:47175 (only got wands) ...given that Lawful can get hit harder with force field, that was lucky planes Earth ...crystal ball worked first time; far upper-left corner Air ...took my time; =oConflict and tooled horn help as always ...got lucky and found the portal with first /oSDD zap Fire ...crystal ball worked first time, just like conf u?oGD Water ...first time not reading b?oGeno to kill eels etc. ...with greased [oMR, not as hard as I thought ...really lucky; again found portal with first /oSDD zap Astral ...first time not reading b?oGeno to kill liches ...made 3 arch-liches peaceful with Book of the Dead ...Famine's in the center .../oDeath, but wait, his medallion glows! that /oDeath now empty ...snuck past him, but this altar is neutral; snuck past him and out ...Book makes arch-liches peaceful, but they still teleport to you ...disadvantage, makes it harder to get around ...Death's on the left ...stethoscope: Death (neutral): Level 36 HP 26(47) AC -5 ...wow, that's not many points; Tsurugi killed him in one blow ...NUTS left is chaotic ...blocking exit: Richard the Arbalester: L 25 HP (193) AC -20 fast .../oTeleport away ...gonna have to take on Pestilence on the right ..."Eve the invisible Swashbuckler swings her [...] Vorpal Blade" ...yikes. I wasn't the target; =oConflict for the win ...two /oDeath zaps, bouncing between angel and me ...that's a total of 6 beam transits, and they *all* missed her ...used /oTeleport to get Eve away .../oDeath, but wait, Pesty's medallion glows! (unbelievable) ...second /oDeath kills him .../oTeleport and #jump up to the temple door ..."Dion the invisible Speleologist" blocks the door ...but the Tsurugi bisects him neatly, and we're in
LESSONS LEARNED
wear =oFA, if possible, before moving to mind flayer line-of-sight ...in case he has !oPara when doing sacfest, check hunger (and eat) before #pray ...otherwise god may fix your hunger, and not give gifts when playing illiterate, save and bring all ?oCrMon to sacfest ...leave them on the ground; monsters might read them for you? :-) kill or lure out all other ninja in samurai quest nemesis' room ...otherwise, after /oDeath quest nemesis, another may wield the Tsurugi "huge" creatures that can't be bisected: ...Orcus, Geyron, Asmodeus, Demogorgon ...lurker above, trapper ...giants, ettin, titan ...giant eel, electric eel, kraken ...dragons (baby) ...nagas (adult) "gigantic" creatures that can't be bisected: ...long worm, purple worm ...dragons (adult)
On Nov 3, 6:28 pm, bjnord <bjn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 7TH ASCENSION GAME SUMMARY ("Lawful v. Liches") > Conducts: illiterate, genoless, polyselfless, artiwishless > This was my first samurai ascension, as well as my first > illiterate and first genoless conduct ascension. I haven't > played lawful or combat-focused characters before this, so > lots of new experiences. I want to thank David Damerell for > his Object Identification Spoiler, which I consult regularly > in every game, but never as much as I did for illiterate! The > whole combination was quite fun to play. I got a ridiculous > number of wishes given that I couldn't recharge any /oW. > In all of my past ascensions I have read b?oGeno on Water for > ; and again on Astral for L, so I was a little apprehensive,
Interesting. I've done genocideless at least once; I didn't get a scroll of genocide until very late in the game, and by then it didn't seem worth the bother. I can see the use of genociding ; on water (once you're there, so they've already been generated), although I've never found it particularly necessary, but if you've gotten to Astral without genociding L, I'm not sure I see the point there. At least, I've never been bothered by L any more than by other things on Astral.
> but it turned out they weren't as bad as I expected. I confess > I got very lucky with finding portals on the planes (given no > ?oGD), though I did have to visit all three altars to win.
[...]
> ...killed 1st, #pray for heal during 2nd, +1 XL bonus HP during 3rd > ...and my reward? /oW (0:2)
Just curious, but how did you determine that the wand was 0:2, being illiterate? I'm probably missing something, but the only ways I know of getting this information are by reading a scroll of identity, or casting a spell of identity (which would mean having read the spellbook).
> On Nov 3, 6:28 pm, bjnord <bjn...@gmail.com> wrote: >> 7TH ASCENSION GAME SUMMARY ("Lawful v. Liches")
> [...] >> ...killed 1st, #pray for heal during 2nd, +1 XL bonus HP during >> 3rd ...and my reward? /oW (0:2)
> Just curious, but how did you determine that the wand was 0:2, > being illiterate? I'm probably missing something, but the only > ways I know of getting this information are by reading a scroll > of identity, or casting a spell of identity (which would mean > having read the spellbook).
Zapping it until "Nothing happens"? Of course, there is a 1/121 chance of accidentally wresting the last wish from the 0:0 wand this way (near-meaningless in an illiterate game).
On Nov 5, 3:47 am, "G-Mon" <gmon5...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05 Nov 2009, James <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Nov 3, 6:28 pm, bjnord <bjn...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> ...and my reward? /oW (0:2)
> > Just curious, but how did you determine that the wand was 0:2, > > being illiterate?
> Zapping it until "Nothing happens"?
Exactly. I knew from how many wishes the wands gave.
> Of course, there is a 1/121 chance > of accidentally wresting the last wish from the 0:0 wand this way
But when this happens, you're told (whether it happens immediately, or after you've leaned on the "z" key for a long time). And yes, I did wrest the wishes out of both wands.
On Nov 5, 10:47 am, "G-Mon" <gmon5...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05 Nov 2009, James <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote innews:6dbbf8a9-f3cb-40aa-a388-96958cf7be57@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com > : > > On Nov 3, 6:28 pm, bjnord <bjn...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> 7TH ASCENSION GAME SUMMARY ("Lawful v. Liches") > > [...] > >> ...killed 1st, #pray for heal during 2nd, +1 XL bonus HP during > >> 3rd ...and my reward? /oW (0:2) > > Just curious, but how did you determine that the wand was > > 0:2, being illiterate? I'm probably missing something, but > > the only ways I know of getting this information are by > > reading a scroll of identity, or casting a spell of identity > > (which would mean having read the spellbook). > Zapping it until "Nothing happens"? Of course, there is a > 1/121 chance of accidentally wresting the last wish from the > 0:0 wand this way (near-meaningless in an illiterate game).
But this still doesn't tell you whether it's 0:2 or 1:2.
> > Zapping it until "Nothing happens"? Of course, there is a > > 1/121 chance of accidentally wresting the last wish from the > > 0:0 wand this way (near-meaningless in an illiterate game).
> But this still doesn't tell you whether it's 0:2 or 1:2.
In vanilla Nethack, already-recharged wands can enter the game only through bones files.
>On Nov 3, 6:28 pm, bjnord <bjn...@gmail.com> wrote: >>lots of new experiences. I want to thank David Damerell for >>his Object Identification Spoiler, which I consult regularly >>in every game, but never as much as I did for illiterate!
Smug face.
I'm not sure I consult it often but much of it is in my head.
>> ...and my reward? /oW (0:2) >Just curious, but how did you determine that the wand was 0:2, >being illiterate?
Zap it three times? -- David Damerell <damer...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl? Today is Stilday, October - a weekend. Tomorrow will be Gorgonzoladay, October - a weekend.
> you'll never guess what I found on Sokoban level 3? yup, another /oW > (0:3)
I wonder about your inventory note... > > Z - a blessed wand of death named blessed /oW (0:3) > Why didn't you name the /WoW instead of the /WoD? (Or just a mistake?)
> all the way down to Medusa with *no* intrinsics (except initial speed) > [...] > ...so far !oLev is my only way of crossing water
What about the two scrolls of earth from Sokoban?
> was *carefully* approaching a mind flayer in a maze, intending ranged > attack > ...stepped into line-of-sight to throw daggers, but he threw !oPara > first > ...he had time to run up 5 squares, suck my brain once (no grease > yet)
Good that an illiterate can't forget too much. :-)
> time for the Quest > ...ended up with 5 !oGL, around 25 !oEH: now XL:21 HP:306 AC:-20
Done alchemy?
> ...tally of Rodney > [few incidents] > ...given that Lawful can get hit harder with force field, that was > lucky
Sometime I get the impression that the force implemented wrongly, not as intended. (But that's certainly just because the RNG is biased.)
> planes > Earth > ...crystal ball worked first time; far upper-left corner > Fire > ...crystal ball worked first time, just like conf u?oGD
I had bad experience with crystal balls; immobility up to 10 turns! Very risky. Not nice on the Planes.
> Astral > ...Famine's in the center > .../oDeath, but wait, his medallion glows! that /oDeath now > empty > ...gonna have to take on Pestilence on the right > .../oDeath, but wait, Pesty's medallion glows! (unbelievable)
Man, that sucks!
> LESSONS LEARNED
> Tsurugi > "huge" creatures that can't be bisected: > ...giant eel, electric eel, kraken
Interesting.
> "gigantic" creatures that can't be bisected: > ...long worm, [...]
On Nov 6, 7:53 am, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder about your inventory note...
> bjnord wrote: > > Z - a blessed wand of death named blessed /oW (0:3)
> Why didn't you name the /WoW instead of the /WoD? (Or just a > mistake?)
That means "wand of death, gotten from the wand of wishing". I ended up with so many extra wishes, I wished for two wands of death (after the black dragon disintegrated the Orcus one). Since I couldn't recharge them, or even know their status, I wanted to make sure I had enough for Rodney and Astral.
> > was *carefully* approaching a mind flayer in a maze [...] > > ...[...] threw !oPara [...] > > ...he had time to run up 5 squares, suck my brain once
> Good that an illiterate can't forget too much. :-)
Well, you can't forget learned spells (since you don't know any), but you still forget several things you've painstakingly IDed via price/behavior testing, as well as several levels of the dungeon that you can't magically remap. This was a bit of a pain; it's been a long time since a MF got the drop on me, but this one sure did.
> > time for the Quest > > ...ended up with 5 !oGL, around 25 !oEH: now XL:21 HP:306
> Done alchemy?
Always. I am as covetous of potions as demons are of the amulet. "The orc seems more experienced" makes me indignant every time. ("That was *my* !oGL") ;-) Well, it makes it more fun when I kill them fast enough to score one.
> > planes > > Earth > > ...crystal ball worked first time; far upper-left corner > > Fire > > ...crystal ball worked first time, just like conf u?oGD
> I had bad experience with crystal balls; immobility up to 10 > turns! Very risky. Not nice on the Planes.
Maybe I underestimated the risk, but I determined in advance that I would use the ball only on Earth, and on Fire iff there was no archon in range. Given the trance, I would not have used it on Air or Water; I saved my one /oSDD and the (oOpen for those planes. If I had found even two /oSDD I would have dropped the ball, for weight if no other reason. It's not ideal.
> > Astral > > ...Famine's in the center > > .../oDeath, but wait, his medallion glows! > > ...gonna have to take on Pestilence on the right > > .../oDeath, but wait, Pesty's medallion glows! > > (unbelievable)
> Man, that sucks!
I thought so. :-) If you have to visit 3 altars, two riders with "oLS is a bit cruel. At least with the 3rd altar, you know you aren't coming back, and can expend all remaining resources getting in.
On Nov 5, 12:50 am, James <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 6:28 pm, bjnord <bjn...@gmail.com> wrote: [...] >> ...and my reward? /oW (0:2)
> Just curious, but how did you determine that the wand was 0:2, > being illiterate? I'm probably missing something, but the only > ways I know of getting this information are by reading a scroll > of identity, or casting a spell of identity (which would mean > having read the spellbook).
Others have addressed how to deduce the charge count, but I haven't seen anyone else mention that one possible result of sitting on a throne is, "You are granted an insight!" That's approximately equivalent to reading a blessed scroll of identify (one of the minor differences being that it won't violate illiterate conduct :-).
> Others have addressed how to deduce the charge count, >but I haven't seen anyone else mention that one possible >result of sitting on a throne is, "You are granted an insight!"
Ho, hum, so much for being done with the ID spoiler. :-) -- David Damerell <damer...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> And now, a seemingly inexplicable shot of a passing train. Today is Teleute, November. Tomorrow will be Oneiros, November.
> > Just curious, but how did you determine that the wand was 0:2, > > being illiterate? I'm probably missing something, but the only > result of sitting on a throne is, "You are granted an insight!" > That's approximately equivalent to reading a blessed scroll > of identify (one of the minor differences being that it won't > violate illiterate conduct :-).
Uncursed, not blessed. And the probability of this outcome is so low I do not find thrones worthwhile in general.
TJR wrote: > [Pat:] >> result of sitting on a throne is, "You are granted an insight!" >> That's approximately equivalent to reading a blessed scroll >> of identify (one of the minor differences being that it won't >> violate illiterate conduct :-).
> Uncursed, not blessed.
(Careful with your statements if trying to correct Pat.)
A *blessed* scroll will identify the same amount as a throne; either all your inventory, or up to 4 items.
An non-cursed scroll will behave like a blessed scroll only with a 1-in-5 probability, otherwise it will identify only a single item.
> TJR wrote: > > [Pat:] > >> result of sitting on a throne is, "You are granted an insight!" > >> That's approximately equivalent to reading a blessed scroll > >> of identify (one of the minor differences being that it won't > >> violate illiterate conduct :-).
> > Uncursed, not blessed.
> (Careful with your statements if trying to correct Pat.)
> A *blessed* scroll will identify the same amount as a throne; either > all your inventory, or up to 4 items.
> An non-cursed scroll will behave like a blessed scroll only with a > 1-in-5 probability, otherwise it will identify only a single item.
> Janis
Oops, you're right. However, as opposed to a throne, a blessed scroll will always identify at least two items if your Luck is positive.
On Nov 6, 7:40 pm, Pat Rankin <ran...@pactechdata.com> wrote:
> I haven't seen anyone else mention that one possible > result of sitting on a throne is, "You are granted an insight!" > That's approximately equivalent to reading a blessed scroll > of identify (one of the minor differences being that it won't > violate illiterate conduct :-).
That's right; it's a 1/13 chance. So it's good policy to put away any gold, but have some unidentified items in your main inventory, before #sit'ting on the throne. thrn-343.txt says "Items in inventory are NOT at risk of explosion." so you can have unIDed wands and rings.
Also: Quaffing at a non-magic fountain can give enlightenment (1/30 chance). (As David Damerell mentions in the ID spoiler, enlightenment can help you ID worn amulets and rings.) Of course, you also get a 1/30 chance of cursing things in your inventory, so this doesn't seem worthwhile.
Sadly, in this my first illiterate game, I didn't find any !oEnli or /oEnli and no throne gave an ID.
A few other misc. notes that weren't in the ID spoiler; first two can be risky if you're not prepared for the consequences:
- You can identify =oFA by hitting a gelcube or similar ("You stiffen momentarily.").
- You can identify =oSD by the fact that purple worms, lurkers above, etc. will spit you out ("doesn't like your taste"). I have seen that message a lot, and it never dawned on me why (duh). TDTTOE
- You can identify /oSDD by the fact that it's the only NODIR wand that produces no obvious effect. Kieron Dunbar's wand ID spoiler mentions this.
1. Use the techniques described in the ID spoiler to identify other no-engrave wands like open, lock, etc. by zapping them at specific things.
2. When zapping the no-engrave wands, watch for one that doesn't ask for a direction, and does nothing (meaning: does not produce any message or visible effect). That's /oSDD.
3. Of course, this depends on the wand's charges; once you see "Nothing happens." that wand is empty, and you can't test it further.
TJR wrote: >>> [Pat:] >>>> That's approximately equivalent to [...] > Oops, you're right. However, as opposed to a throne, a blessed scroll > will always identify at least two items if your Luck is positive.
TJR <tilmina...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > > Just curious, but how did you determine that the wand was 0:2, > > > being illiterate? =A0I'm probably missing something, but the only
> > result of sitting on a throne is, "You are granted an insight!" > > That's approximately equivalent to reading a blessed scroll > > of identify (one of the minor differences being that it won't > > violate illiterate conduct :-).
> Uncursed, not blessed.
No, blessed. Approximately. 1/5th chance of 1 - 4 or all objects. That is the same outcome as for a blessed scroll, with some differences in the details. Uncursed would be 21/25th chance of 1 object, and 1/25th of 2 - 4 or all.
> And the probability of this outcome is so low I > do not find thrones worthwhile in general.
Consider, then, that you can continue sitting on the throne until something happens; that the negative outcomes are either trivial or trivially circumvented; and that there are other, occasionally very useful outcomes. I would say that thrones are certainly worth sitting on. They're not the most spectacular resource in the game, that's true, but there is no good reason not to sit on any throne you come across.