There is a family of compounds called cyanoacrylates: methyl, ethyl, etc. The family has similar properties. Compare this to sucralose and sucrose. Very similar, both very sweet. One full of calories and one not. The same with the family of super glues. There has been a lot of research on the body's reaction to the different members of the family. The easily available types are the more toxic ones. The medical grades are the least toxic. Not non toxic, but least toxic. That being said, I do not hesitate to use what is on hand in an emeregency. Many times its use ends the emergency. Again the secret of plastic surgery is a clean wound, clean edges and a lined up closure. I have used this on myself and my family. I did not make them sign releases, but have gotten many strange looks from the kids pediatricians. They always were impressed with the rapid and almost invisable healing.
>There is a family of compounds called cyanoacrylates: methyl, ethyl, etc. >The family has similar properties. Compare this to sucralose and sucrose. >Very similar, both very sweet. One full of calories and one not. The same >with the family of super glues. There has been a lot of research on the >body's reaction to the different members of the family. >The easily available types are the more toxic ones. The medical grades are >the least toxic. Not non toxic, but least toxic. That being said, I do not >hesitate to use what is on hand in an emeregency. Many times its use ends >the emergency. Again the secret of plastic surgery is a clean wound, clean >edges and a lined up closure. I have used this on myself and my family. I >did not make them sign releases, but have gotten many strange looks from the >kids pediatricians. They always were impressed with the rapid and almost >invisable healing.
>Charles Friedman DDS >Ventura by the Sea
When my dental surgeon did my gum reconstruction(resceding gums) he glued everything, and it sure beat having everything bandaged!! He did use some stitches, IIRC, but mostly glue.
In article <h1Ung.26830$Xn.219@trnddc05>, Shopdog <look...@aol.net> wrote:
> Have you ever actually used CA in wound closure?
> The brand I use is Loctite, works great and has been used several times. > Once for a plate glass cut and a couple of times for that nasty (I'll > sharpen your kitchen knives) cut. If you have a clean straight cut then it > works the best, jagged cuts are bit trickier though, In order not to have a > large scar you must get the skin close together before closing with glue.
Curious how you would do that. In most instances (at least on my scarred and gnarled hands) the wound bleeds profusely for a while, until I'm able to rinse it in clean water and apply pressure to stop the bleeding.
At that point you have to locate and uncap a tiny bottle of CA, perhaps puncturing the tip if it's never been opened, and apply the stuff to the wound, without reopening the wound, and without getting it all over your OTHER hand.
Then what do you do? Blow on it? Spray it with Zip-Kicker? Dip it in baking soda? CA dries fast, but it's NOT instantaneous. How do you keep the wound closed long enough? How do you keep from gluing one hand to the other? How does the presence of blood interfere with the adhesive properties of CA?
I'm all for trying this the next time I cut myself (sometime this week, probably), but am curious about the actual procedure.
> There is a family of compounds called cyanoacrylates: methyl, ethyl, etc. > The family has similar properties. Compare this to sucralose and sucrose. > Very similar, both very sweet. One full of calories and one not. The same > with the family of super glues. There has been a lot of research on the > body's reaction to the different members of the family. > The easily available types are the more toxic ones. The medical grades are > the least toxic. Not non toxic, but least toxic. That being said, I do not > hesitate to use what is on hand in an emeregency. Many times its use ends > the emergency. Again the secret of plastic surgery is a clean wound, clean > edges and a lined up closure. I have used this on myself and my family. I > did not make them sign releases, but have gotten many strange looks from the > kids pediatricians. They always were impressed with the rapid and almost > invisable healing.
> Charles Friedman DDS > Ventura by the Sea
Is CA used in dentistry? A friend of my wife chipped her tooth a couple of years ago. Couldn't afford a dentist so she glued the chip back on with super glue. Don't know how long it lasted. She moved away shortly after.
What about using CA to adhere dentures semi-permanently? Probably not a good idea?
Frank Warner writes: > Then what do you do? Blow on it? Spray it with Zip-Kicker? Dip it in > baking soda? CA dries fast, but it's NOT instantaneous. How do you keep > the wound closed long enough?
You must achieve hemostasis first. Lay off the aspirin.
As I explained earlier in this thread, it won't work to close a wound, so this is limited to non-suturable lacerations. You just dab it on to fill the open crevice with the glue, which soothes the exposed live tissue, and acts as a kind of epidermis to let you work with the injury.
Your skin has a constant water vapor pressure and fatty exudation; this plus mechanical agitation means that ordinary CA glue will start peeling within hours of application. The surgical type or the hideously priced Band-Aid brand version have lots of plasticizers added to slow the peeling.
You can buy genuine surgical glue kits on eBay, at hospital prices, which is to say, at some multiple of gold per weight.
If you divide the active ingredient weight into the retail cost per pill, the cheapest generic prescription drugs go for about $3000/lb. Viagra costs about $1/2 million per pound. How did we get to this?
In article <Xns97F1B6621FEB4someconund...@216.196.97.131>, Richard J
Kinch <ki...@truetex.com> wrote: > Frank Warner writes:
> > Then what do you do? Blow on it? Spray it with Zip-Kicker? Dip it in > > baking soda? CA dries fast, but it's NOT instantaneous. How do you > keep > > the wound closed long enough?
> You must achieve hemostasis first. Lay off the aspirin.
My blood thinner of choice is <cough> bourbon <cough>.
And sharp things. (What a combination. Wonder I have any fingers left at all.)
> As I explained earlier in this thread, it won't work to close a wound, > so this is limited to non-suturable lacerations. You just dab it on to > fill the open crevice with the glue, which soothes the exposed live > tissue, and acts as a kind of epidermis to let you work with the injury.
Now you can see why I'm confused. Those instructions contradict what others have said about pinching the wound closed before applying the CA, and the descriptions of battlefield use where the object was to prevent otherwise unstoppable bleeding. You just dump the stuff into an open wound?
> Your skin has a constant water vapor pressure and fatty exudation; this > plus mechanical agitation means that ordinary CA glue will start peeling > within hours of application. The surgical type or the hideously priced > Band-Aid brand version have lots of plasticizers added to slow the > peeling.
> You can buy genuine surgical glue kits on eBay, at hospital prices, > which is to say, at some multiple of gold per weight.
> If you divide the active ingredient weight into the retail cost per > pill, the cheapest generic prescription drugs go for about $3000/lb. > Viagra costs about $1/2 million per pound. How did we get to this?
Doctors, hospital administrators and Pharma CEOs love their toys.
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:55:47 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking, Richard J Kinch <ki...@truetex.com> wrote,
>If you divide the active ingredient weight into the retail cost per >pill, the cheapest generic prescription drugs go for about $3000/lb. >Viagra costs about $1/2 million per pound. How did we get to this?
But still, I'm guessing, no more than the price of ink jet printer ink, after subtracting the cartridge and the water.
>Is CA used in dentistry? A friend of my wife chipped her tooth a couple >of years ago. Couldn't afford a dentist so she glued the chip back on >with super glue. Don't know how long it lasted. She moved away shortly >after.
>What about using CA to adhere dentures semi-permanently? Probably not a >good idea?
>-Frank [Just up the road from you, in Lompoc]
Dental labs warn against the use of CA for denture repair. Gerry :-)} London, Canada
They use a UVL sensing glue somewhat like epoxy. It cures only under intense light placed on it.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member http://lufkinced.com/
Frank Warner wrote: > In article <mvGog.57380$Lm5....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, Charles > Friedman <toothd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>OK
>>Here goes another Dr Response:
>>There is a family of compounds called cyanoacrylates: methyl, ethyl, etc. >>The family has similar properties. Compare this to sucralose and sucrose. >>Very similar, both very sweet. One full of calories and one not. The same >>with the family of super glues. There has been a lot of research on the >>body's reaction to the different members of the family. >>The easily available types are the more toxic ones. The medical grades are >>the least toxic. Not non toxic, but least toxic. That being said, I do not >>hesitate to use what is on hand in an emeregency. Many times its use ends >>the emergency. Again the secret of plastic surgery is a clean wound, clean >>edges and a lined up closure. I have used this on myself and my family. I >>did not make them sign releases, but have gotten many strange looks from the >>kids pediatricians. They always were impressed with the rapid and almost >>invisable healing.
>>Charles Friedman DDS >>Ventura by the Sea
> Is CA used in dentistry? A friend of my wife chipped her tooth a couple > of years ago. Couldn't afford a dentist so she glued the chip back on > with super glue. Don't know how long it lasted. She moved away shortly > after.
> What about using CA to adhere dentures semi-permanently? Probably not a > good idea?
> -Frank [Just up the road from you, in Lompoc]
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Frank Warner writes: > Now you can see why I'm confused. Those instructions contradict what > others have said about pinching the wound closed before applying the > CA, and the descriptions of battlefield use where the object was to > prevent otherwise unstoppable bleeding.
It seems we had a consensus that while one could stick wound edges back together by manipulating them into position and gluing them thus, that the ordinary CA glues won't hold firmly enough and for the many days it takes for the tissue to knit properly together.
> You just dump the stuff into an open wound?
Based on my extensive clinical experience (9 kids, cheap do-it-yourself dad willing to experiment on them: http://www.truetex.com/kinch04a.jpg), that's the best you can expect to hold up.
In other words, I don't believe there is some lower end of the range of lacerations-requiring-sutures that can be successfully improvised with ordinary hardware-store CA glue instead of sutures.
I hold the same opinion about butterfly closures. I've never seen them succeed where sutures were needed. They always fall off too soon.
Common CA glue works fine for punctures and cuts too small or too abraded for sutures. It is remarkably soothing, as it seems to seal over the raw nerve endings like real epidermis, so that a fresh cut is hardly noticeable, and you can get back to work. But you have to renew it once or twice a day.
> I'm all for trying this the next time I cut myself (sometime this week, > probably), but am curious about the actual procedure.
> -Frank
Based on first hand experience (ha ha) - I fly RC aircraft so there is always an open bottle around (I actually keep it in a another small bottle half filled with moisture absorbing dessicant - this definately prolongs the time till it thickens)
I have develop the dexterity to close the cut using the two adjacent fingers and then apply a drop of thin CA which wicks into the wound. As discussed earlier only the skin bonds but I find that this often sufficient to promote closure of the cut. Skin is very resilient.
If you cant stop the bleeding then mayby this isnt a job for CA - that said if you use the above technique the pinching together of the wound can stop the bleeding while you apply the CA.
I have found that the thinner CA works best - my favourite is Pacer ZAP thin.
>>what do you do? Blow on it? Spray it with Zip-Kicker? Dip it in >>baking soda? CA dries fast, but it's NOT instantaneous.
Dont use any of these on yourself - fresh thin CA ussually smokes with baking soda. I make my my own kicker by dissolving baking soda in hot water - work very well.
My generic blood pressure meds cost $30 at a national chain. They're $6 at Costco pharmacy. This is true of Sam's Club pharmacy too. Found out about it on CNN. Karl
> > Then what do you do? Blow on it? Spray it with Zip-Kicker? Dip it in > > baking soda? CA dries fast, but it's NOT instantaneous. How do you > keep > > the wound closed long enough?
> You must achieve hemostasis first. Lay off the aspirin.
> As I explained earlier in this thread, it won't work to close a wound, > so this is limited to non-suturable lacerations. You just dab it on to > fill the open crevice with the glue, which soothes the exposed live > tissue, and acts as a kind of epidermis to let you work with the injury.
> Your skin has a constant water vapor pressure and fatty exudation; this > plus mechanical agitation means that ordinary CA glue will start peeling > within hours of application. The surgical type or the hideously priced > Band-Aid brand version have lots of plasticizers added to slow the > peeling.
> You can buy genuine surgical glue kits on eBay, at hospital prices, > which is to say, at some multiple of gold per weight.
> If you divide the active ingredient weight into the retail cost per > pill, the cheapest generic prescription drugs go for about $3000/lb. > Viagra costs about $1/2 million per pound. How did we get to this?
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:08:00 -0700, Frank Warner <warn...@verizonDOTnet.net> wrote:
> My blood thinner of choice is <cough> bourbon <cough>.
If you want a special treat, Frank, try the Black Maple Hill Bourbon. The 16 year old is fantastic, and the 21 year old is absolutely and without doubt the best whisk(e)y I've ever had. Better than the oldest Scotch I've had, and that's saying a lot.
> And sharp things. (What a combination. Wonder I have any fingers left > at all.)
Well, you need to do things in the proper order, is all.
On 30 Jun 2006 03:43:20 -0700, "kfvorw...@hotmail.com"
<kfvorw...@gmail.com> wrote: >My generic blood pressure meds cost $30 at a national chain. They're $6 >at Costco pharmacy. This is true of Sam's Club pharmacy too. Found out >about it on CNN. >Karl
a lady friend just discovered that if she has her insurance company pick up her generic BP meds...her co-pay is $8 for a 1 month supply. If she pays for it entirely herself..it costs her $18 for a 90 day supply.
Her (Costco) pharmacist brought it to her attention btw.
>> > Then what do you do? Blow on it? Spray it with Zip-Kicker? Dip it in >> > baking soda? CA dries fast, but it's NOT instantaneous. How do you >> keep >> > the wound closed long enough?
>> You must achieve hemostasis first. Lay off the aspirin.
>> As I explained earlier in this thread, it won't work to close a wound, >> so this is limited to non-suturable lacerations. You just dab it on to >> fill the open crevice with the glue, which soothes the exposed live >> tissue, and acts as a kind of epidermis to let you work with the injury.
>> Your skin has a constant water vapor pressure and fatty exudation; this >> plus mechanical agitation means that ordinary CA glue will start peeling >> within hours of application. The surgical type or the hideously priced >> Band-Aid brand version have lots of plasticizers added to slow the >> peeling.
>> You can buy genuine surgical glue kits on eBay, at hospital prices, >> which is to say, at some multiple of gold per weight.
>> If you divide the active ingredient weight into the retail cost per >> pill, the cheapest generic prescription drugs go for about $3000/lb. >> Viagra costs about $1/2 million per pound. How did we get to this?
"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed, the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line of defense." --Walter Williams
In article <Xns97F22044471C0someconund...@216.196.97.131>, ki...@truetex.com says...
> In other words, I don't believe there is some lower end of the range of > lacerations-requiring-sutures that can be successfully improvised with > ordinary hardware-store CA glue instead of sutures.
> I hold the same opinion about butterfly closures. I've never seen them > succeed where sutures were needed. They always fall off too soon.
A nurse friend fixed a long jagged laceration on my index finger with 3M Steri-strips and tincture of benzoin. The steri-strips look like fiberglass packing tape and the tincture of benzoin acts like contact cement to make the skin tacky before applying the tape.
I'm sure it would have been sutured had I gone to the ER. The steri- strips stayed on for several days working in a shop environment - long enough that the wound was healed to the point that I was able to apply a few more that lasted til a bandage was sufficient.
On 30 Jun 2006 15:17:44 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveH...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:08:00 -0700, Frank Warner <warn...@verizonDOTnet.net> wrote:
>> My blood thinner of choice is <cough> bourbon <cough>.
>If you want a special treat, Frank, try the Black Maple Hill Bourbon. >The 16 year old is fantastic, and the 21 year old is absolutely and >without doubt the best whisk(e)y I've ever had. Better than the oldest >Scotch I've had, and that's saying a lot.
Albeit taste being subjective, may I be so bold as to suggest putting some Woodfoord Reserve distillers select on th' proverbial tasting table? It's th' official bourbon whiskey of th' Kentucky Derby for a good reason. Enjoy <g>.
<grmil...@rogers.com> wrote: >On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:14:05 -0700, Frank Warner ><warn...@verizonDOTnet.net> wrote:
>>Is CA used in dentistry? A friend of my wife chipped her tooth a couple >>of years ago. Couldn't afford a dentist so she glued the chip back on >>with super glue. Don't know how long it lasted. She moved away shortly >>after.
>>What about using CA to adhere dentures semi-permanently? Probably not a >>good idea?
>>-Frank [Just up the road from you, in Lompoc] >Dental labs warn against the use of CA for denture repair. >Gerry :-)}
Because it is somehow harmful? or because it costs them sales/money?
Certain "professionals" may have a whole lot more expertise in certain areas than I do. However very few of them have the time, patience or pride to do the type of job that I want done and can do better myself.
-- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:56:07 -0700, sn...@trippin.net <sn...@trippin.net> wrote: > On 30 Jun 2006 15:17:44 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveH...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>If you want a special treat, Frank, try the Black Maple Hill Bourbon. >>The 16 year old is fantastic, and the 21 year old is absolutely and >>without doubt the best whisk(e)y I've ever had. Better than the oldest >>Scotch I've had, and that's saying a lot.
> Albeit taste being subjective, may I be so bold as to suggest putting > some Woodfoord Reserve distillers select on th' proverbial tasting > table?
Rectangular bottle, yes? (looks)
> It's th' official bourbon whiskey of th' Kentucky Derby for a > good reason. Enjoy <g>.
Yes. It is a nice one; a step up from my usual which is Knob Creek. The Black Maple Hill is about twice the cost and at least as much better. A nice treat once in a while. Thing is, when you go through a bottle of whisk(e)y in about 9 months, a pricier bottle doesn't really cost that much more.
On 30 Jun 2006 18:56:18 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveH...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:56:07 -0700, sn...@trippin.net <sn...@trippin.net> wrote: >> On 30 Jun 2006 15:17:44 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveH...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>If you want a special treat, Frank, try the Black Maple Hill Bourbon. >>>The 16 year old is fantastic, and the 21 year old is absolutely and >>>without doubt the best whisk(e)y I've ever had. Better than the oldest >>>Scotch I've had, and that's saying a lot.
>> Albeit taste being subjective, may I be so bold as to suggest putting >> some Woodfoord Reserve distillers select on th' proverbial tasting >> table?
<lf...@no.spam.iserv.net> wrote: >On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:57:06 -0400, Gerald Miller ><grmil...@rogers.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:14:05 -0700, Frank Warner >><warn...@verizonDOTnet.net> wrote:
>>>Is CA used in dentistry? A friend of my wife chipped her tooth a couple >>>of years ago. Couldn't afford a dentist so she glued the chip back on >>>with super glue. Don't know how long it lasted. She moved away shortly >>>after.
>>>What about using CA to adhere dentures semi-permanently? Probably not a >>>good idea?
>>>-Frank [Just up the road from you, in Lompoc] >>Dental labs warn against the use of CA for denture repair. >>Gerry :-)}
>Because it is somehow harmful? or because it costs them >sales/money?
>Certain "professionals" may have a whole lot more expertise >in certain areas than I do. However very few of them have >the time, patience or pride to do the type of job that I >want done and can do better myself.
CA glues will degrade from exposure to water. Saliva attacks it even faster. A denture repair wouldn't last real long if glued with CA glue. However, since the glue does come away from the substrate it could probably be glued again and again. As long as the dentures aren't damaged when the repair fails. ERS
>>> It's th' official bourbon whiskey of th' Kentucky Derby for a >>> good reason. Enjoy <g>.
>>Yes. It is a nice one; a step up from my usual which is Knob Creek.
> We don't really have a usual, but Knob Creek isn't too shabby.
This is that much better than that and then some.
>>The Black Maple Hill is about twice the cost and at least as much >>better. A nice treat once in a while. > Thank you Sir, I've now got that on my list to try.
Easy with that "sir" crap please. I just ate.
>>Thing is, when you go through >>a bottle of whisk(e)y in about 9 months, a pricier bottle doesn't really >>cost that much more. > Indeed. Besides, we're getting old enough to actually deserve th' > good stuff once in awhile <g>.
Funny how the reason for a drink changes as one matures. Well, ages.
About a half hour ago I caught my ring finger (no ring) on a piece of ground off wire and ripped that puppy open. I soaked a paper towel with blood while I hunted down one of the Dollar Store 5 for $1 tubes of superglue. Another paper towel and I dried off the blood as best I could and squirted on the superglue. In a few seconds it had quit bleeding. Its been about 20 minutes since I treated it and it doesn't hurt at all - I'm typing with it. The superglue and blood reacted to make a strange plastic looking clump, but it seems to be working fine. Now, if the finger doesn't fall off...
Great ! But if that really is deep/long enough to require a couple of stitches you really ought to have a doctor look at it. Hate for it to get infected (think gangrene, amputation) or spring a leak in the night and drain your life's blood into your mattress :-)
> About a half hour ago I caught my ring finger (no ring) on a piece of > ground off wire and ripped that puppy open. I soaked a paper towel > with blood while I hunted down one of the Dollar Store 5 for $1 tubes > of superglue. Another paper towel and I dried off the blood as best I > could and squirted on the superglue. In a few seconds it had quit > bleeding. Its been about 20 minutes since I treated it and it doesn't > hurt at all - I'm typing with it. The superglue and blood reacted to > make a strange plastic looking clump, but it seems to be working fine. > Now, if the finger doesn't fall off...
Wally <wa...@wallyworld.com> wrote: >About a half hour ago I caught my ring finger (no ring) on a piece of >ground off wire and ripped that puppy open. I soaked a paper towel >with blood while I hunted down one of the Dollar Store 5 for $1 tubes >of superglue. Another paper towel and I dried off the blood as best I >could and squirted on the superglue. In a few seconds it had quit >bleeding. Its been about 20 minutes since I treated it and it doesn't >hurt at all - I'm typing with it. The superglue and blood reacted to >make a strange plastic looking clump, but it seems to be working fine. >Now, if the finger doesn't fall off...
It won't but the superglue you bought likely has methyl alcohol in it that can cause necrosis. The medical grade stuff doesn't use methyl but the price is a real nose bleed. ;)
> It won't but the superglue you bought likely has methyl alcohol in it > that can cause necrosis. The medical grade stuff doesn't use methyl > but the price is a real nose bleed. ;)
> Wes S
I use Zap here is an extrat of the MSDS :
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET DATE: 02/18/05
Revision #6 Page 1 of 2 Section 1 HAZARD RATING For Chemical Emergency Only: PACER TECHNOLOGY In the US & Canada (800) 424-9300 9420 Santa Anita Avenue 2 Int'l & Wash DC (COLLECT) (703) 527-3887 Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 1 x 1 Telephone for Information:(909) 987-0550
PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION: ZAP CA
Section 2 - HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS INFORMATION:
Hazardous Components OSHA ACGIH OTHER % (Common Names, CAS Number) PEL TLV LIMITS OPTION Ethyl-2-Cyanoacrylate (7085-85-0) NE NE 0.2ppm TWA 60-100 Hydroquinone* (123-31-9) 2mg/m3 2mg/m3 0-1
*This ingredient is subject to the reporting requirements of Section 313 of Title III of the Superfund Amendments & Reauthorization Act of 1986 (SARA) and 40 CFR 372.
|
