>>>>>>>>>>>> So tell me, what keeps those Democrats from going down to the >>>>>>>>>>>> DMV >>>>>>>>>>>> to get an >>>>>>>>>>>> ID card (which is BTW considerably cheaper to obtain than is a >>>>>>>>>>>> driver's license)?
>>>>>>>>>>>> After all, they are must likely going to need some sort of ID >>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. Cash >>>>>>>>>>>> checks, open bank accounts, buy alcohol or cigerettes, get a >>>>>>>>>>>> job, >>>>>>>>>>>> apply for >>>>>>>>>>>> SS, welfare, or finacial aid. In short, pretty much anything >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> evereything >>>>>>>>>>>> that one has to do to function in the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly makes asking for an ID in order to vote so >>>>>>>>>>>> oppressive?
>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing, I love it.
>>>>>>>>>>> The whole point is fewer Dems have ID than Rs. >>>>>>>>>>> That's an empirical fact. I don't care if they >>>>>>>>>>> theoretically could go to DMV -- they haven't.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the same fraction of Dems had IDs as Rs, then >>>>>>>>>>> this would be a pointless waste of time.
>>>>>>>>>>> Love, Wolf.
>>>>>>>>>> The empirical fact is that Democrats commit voter fraud on a >>>>>>>>>> grand >>>>>>>>>> scale. When you provide cites to implicate Republican's in voter >>>>>>>>>> fraud your sources contained examples of Democratic voter fraud, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> not Republican.
>>>>>>>>> Empirical fact, eh?
>>>>>>>>> Cites?
>>>>>>>>> Beyond scattered onesies, voter fraud largely ended after >>>>>>>>> the ubiquitous computer made it too easily detectble.
>>>>>>>> And yet you have yet to tell me how you would detect the sort of >>>>>>>> voter >>>>>>>> fraud >>>>>>>> I pointed out, or why they haven't challenged me during the time >>>>>>>> period >>>>>>>> where neither my DL or Address matched that of my voter >>>>>>>> registration.
>>>>>>> Are you registered as a Republican or a Democrat?
>>>>>>> Republicans don't challenge Republicans, and Democrats are >>>>>>> total lusers at voter suppression.
>>>>>>> If you're a Democrat and you survived more than one election >>>>>>> cycle in that configuration, your state Republican Party should >>>>>>> hire me and I will fix that problem for a very modest fee.
>>>>>>>> Yea, I certainly noticed how you claim it's so easily dedectiable, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> seem unable to address the various examples I ask you about.
>>>>>>>> I think it's simply enough to note that you have stated that you: >>>>>>>> 1) Are a Democrat
>>>>>>> Idiot. I'm a Republican Party activist since Goldwater. >>>>>>> Former staffer in various Republican offices.
>>>>>>> I'm one of the members of the fiscal conservative wing >>>>>>> of the party, though, so I don't have much use for the >>>>>>> stupid wing and the Taliban wing, except that their votes >>>>>>> are useful and, because none of 'em are very bright, you >>>>>>> don't actually have to pay much attention to them after >>>>>>> the election.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, at the moment it has the feel of the inmates >>>>>>> running the asylum. Caribou Barbie is a constant reminder >>>>>>> of why you don't want to let the stupid people anywhere near >>>>>>> the levers of power.
>>>>>>>> 2) You will do whatever it takes to get your candidate elected >>>>>>>> including: >>>>>>>> A) Lying to us about how easy it is or isn't to engage in voter >>>>>>>> fraud >>>>>>>> B) Your acceptance, approval and potential involvement with >>>>>>>> voter >>>>>>>> fraud.
>>>>>>>> As such your empty assertions can't be accepted without supporting >>>>>>>> evidence, >>>>>>>> which you have been reluctant to provide, and that which you have >>>>>>>> provided >>>>>>>> seems to show the bulk of the voter fraud that occurs is done by >>>>>>>> Democrats >>>>>>>> who feel as you do about lying and engaging in fraud in order to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> candidate elected.
>>>>>>> Ah, horsefeathers. True 50 years ago, notsomuch any more.
>>>>>>> Show me examples of modern large-scale voter fraud. The Texas >>>>>>> AG's fuck-up is a textbook case of wishful stupidity running >>>>>>> headlong into actual reality.
>>>>>>> Voter fraud was killed by computers. The new game is voter >>>>>>> suppression, essentially reinventing Jim Crow laws with a >>>>>>> socially acceptable sugar coating. Democrats haven't learned >>>>>>> to play this game, but we kicked ass with it in 2000 and 2004.
>>>>>>> Love, Wolf.
>>>>>> Acorn.
>>>>> Grow a brain. That was *registration* fraud.
>>>>> And the cases I'm familiar with weren't even organized, >>>>> intentional registration fraud unless you count hiring >>>>> street people (or Young Republicans, as it happens!) to >>>>> do canvassing counts as intentional fraud.
>>>>> Most people who are intent on committing fraud do not >>>>> segregate suspicious registrations from the good ones and >>>>> identify the probably-bad registrations to the county >>>>> registrars.
>>>>> Do you have any evidence that any of the false registrations >>>>> were made with an intent to support fraudulent voting?
>>>>> Cites?
>>>>> Love, Wolf.
>>>> Get your head out of the sand and move away from de Nile. Acorn's >>>> voter >>>> fraud is well documented and disgraceful.
>>> No, you're lying.
>>> Or you belong to the stupid wing of the Party, and are too >>> clueless to understand reality.
>>> ACORN's instances of *registration* fraud are well documented.
>>> Apart from a few onesies, I am unaware of instances where >>> ACORN was actually involved in the casting of fraudulent >>> ballots.
>>> Look, this is all political theater for the very stupid. >>> ACORN is an effective generator of registration for the >>> bad guys. And they generate false registrations, because >>> they incentivize their canvassers.
>>> So what you do if you want to cut them off at the knees is >>> you turn Faux News loose on the topic, nevermind the fact >>> that Republicans have exactly the same problems with our >>> paid canvassers.
>>> All of the sudden the idiot class is resonating with "evil >>> ACORN voter fraud", and the racket of a million rocks rattling >>> around in otherwise empty heads results in damage being done >>> to ACORN.
>>> Suppress ACORN, suppress the nigger vote. Smart move.
>>> Love, Wolf.
>> I guess that is why Nevada's Democratic Attorney General charged the >> ACORN's >> Director, Regional Director and Las Vegas Field Director for turning in >> false voter registrations. The AG said as many as 48% were clearly >> fraudulent.
>> Should I provide information on charges from other States?
>> It is disingenuous to call me stupid when you provide false information >> on >> issues.
> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. > Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. > Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. > Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. > Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations.
> Was that clear enough, even for the very simple-minded?
> In Nevada, they broke state law by using a canvasser > compensation scheme that was based on the number of > names turned.
> Apart from scattered onesies, I am still unaware of any > instances where ACORN was involved in the casting of > fraudulent ballots.
> OK, now because I am becoming increasingly certain that > you are a complete and total idiot, let's just take it > as read that your next post is going to be, much like a > dog shagging your leg, a sort of fevered "Did you know > that ACORN turned in fraudulent registrations?"
> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. > Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. > Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. > Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. > Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations.
> Jeez. I'd think we should have an intelligence test > for Republican voters, but it would eliminate most of > the base.
> Love, Wolf.
Fabrications and childish name calling is not a substitute for debate. If you were a Republican you might understand.
>>>>>>> "Wolf Leverich" <lever...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:slrnheeuq4.gk3.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com... >>>>>>>> On 2009-10-27, Scout <me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Wolf Leverich wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 2009-10-26, Moderate <no_spam_@no_mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Wolf Leverich" <lever...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:slrnhe4a59.o6u.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com... >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2009-10-23, Scout <me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So tell me, what keeps those Democrats from going down to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> DMV >>>>>>>>>>>>> to get an >>>>>>>>>>>>> ID card (which is BTW considerably cheaper to obtain than is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> driver's license)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> After all, they are must likely going to need some sort of ID >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. Cash >>>>>>>>>>>>> checks, open bank accounts, buy alcohol or cigerettes, get a >>>>>>>>>>>>> job, >>>>>>>>>>>>> apply for >>>>>>>>>>>>> SS, welfare, or finacial aid. In short, pretty much anything >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> evereything >>>>>>>>>>>>> that one has to do to function in the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what exactly makes asking for an ID in order to vote so >>>>>>>>>>>>> oppressive?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing, I love it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole point is fewer Dems have ID than Rs. >>>>>>>>>>>> That's an empirical fact. I don't care if they >>>>>>>>>>>> theoretically could go to DMV -- they haven't.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the same fraction of Dems had IDs as Rs, then >>>>>>>>>>>> this would be a pointless waste of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Love, Wolf.
>>>>>>>>>>> The empirical fact is that Democrats commit voter fraud on a >>>>>>>>>>> grand >>>>>>>>>>> scale. When you provide cites to implicate Republican's in voter >>>>>>>>>>> fraud your sources contained examples of Democratic voter fraud, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> not Republican.
>>>>>>>>>> Empirical fact, eh?
>>>>>>>>>> Cites?
>>>>>>>>>> Beyond scattered onesies, voter fraud largely ended after >>>>>>>>>> the ubiquitous computer made it too easily detectble.
>>>>>>>>> And yet you have yet to tell me how you would detect the sort of >>>>>>>>> voter >>>>>>>>> fraud >>>>>>>>> I pointed out, or why they haven't challenged me during the time >>>>>>>>> period >>>>>>>>> where neither my DL or Address matched that of my voter >>>>>>>>> registration.
>>>>>>>> Are you registered as a Republican or a Democrat?
>>>>>>>> Republicans don't challenge Republicans, and Democrats are >>>>>>>> total lusers at voter suppression.
>>>>>>>> If you're a Democrat and you survived more than one election >>>>>>>> cycle in that configuration, your state Republican Party should >>>>>>>> hire me and I will fix that problem for a very modest fee.
>>>>>>>>> Yea, I certainly noticed how you claim it's so easily dedectiable, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> seem unable to address the various examples I ask you about.
>>>>>>>>> I think it's simply enough to note that you have stated that you: >>>>>>>>> 1) Are a Democrat
>>>>>>>> Idiot. I'm a Republican Party activist since Goldwater. >>>>>>>> Former staffer in various Republican offices.
>>>>>>>> I'm one of the members of the fiscal conservative wing >>>>>>>> of the party, though, so I don't have much use for the >>>>>>>> stupid wing and the Taliban wing, except that their votes >>>>>>>> are useful and, because none of 'em are very bright, you >>>>>>>> don't actually have to pay much attention to them after >>>>>>>> the election.
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, at the moment it has the feel of the inmates >>>>>>>> running the asylum. Caribou Barbie is a constant reminder >>>>>>>> of why you don't want to let the stupid people anywhere near >>>>>>>> the levers of power.
>>>>>>>>> 2) You will do whatever it takes to get your candidate elected >>>>>>>>> including: >>>>>>>>> A) Lying to us about how easy it is or isn't to engage in voter >>>>>>>>> fraud >>>>>>>>> B) Your acceptance, approval and potential involvement with >>>>>>>>> voter >>>>>>>>> fraud.
>>>>>>>>> As such your empty assertions can't be accepted without supporting >>>>>>>>> evidence, >>>>>>>>> which you have been reluctant to provide, and that which you have >>>>>>>>> provided >>>>>>>>> seems to show the bulk of the voter fraud that occurs is done by >>>>>>>>> Democrats >>>>>>>>> who feel as you do about lying and engaging in fraud in order to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> candidate elected.
>>>>>>>> Ah, horsefeathers. True 50 years ago, notsomuch any more.
>>>>>>>> Show me examples of modern large-scale voter fraud. The Texas >>>>>>>> AG's fuck-up is a textbook case of wishful stupidity running >>>>>>>> headlong into actual reality.
>>>>>>>> Voter fraud was killed by computers. The new game is voter >>>>>>>> suppression, essentially reinventing Jim Crow laws with a >>>>>>>> socially acceptable sugar coating. Democrats haven't learned >>>>>>>> to play this game, but we kicked ass with it in 2000 and 2004.
>>>>>>>> Love, Wolf.
>>>>>>> Acorn.
>>>>>> Grow a brain. That was *registration* fraud.
>>>>>> And the cases I'm familiar with weren't even organized, >>>>>> intentional registration fraud unless you count hiring >>>>>> street people (or Young Republicans, as it happens!) to >>>>>> do canvassing counts as intentional fraud.
>>>>>> Most people who are intent on committing fraud do not >>>>>> segregate suspicious registrations from the good ones and >>>>>> identify the probably-bad registrations to the county >>>>>> registrars.
>>>>>> Do you have any evidence that any of the false registrations >>>>>> were made with an intent to support fraudulent voting?
>>>>>> Cites?
>>>>>> Love, Wolf.
>>>>> Get your head out of the sand and move away from de Nile. Acorn's >>>>> voter >>>>> fraud is well documented and disgraceful.
>>>> No, you're lying.
>>>> Or you belong to the stupid wing of the Party, and are too >>>> clueless to understand reality.
>>>> ACORN's instances of *registration* fraud are well documented.
>>>> Apart from a few onesies, I am unaware of instances where >>>> ACORN was actually involved in the casting of fraudulent >>>> ballots.
>>>> Look, this is all political theater for the very stupid. >>>> ACORN is an effective generator of registration for the >>>> bad guys. And they generate false registrations, because >>>> they incentivize their canvassers.
>>>> So what you do if you want to cut them off at the knees is >>>> you turn Faux News loose on the topic, nevermind the fact >>>> that Republicans have exactly the same problems with our >>>> paid canvassers.
>>>> All of the sudden the idiot class is resonating with "evil >>>> ACORN voter fraud", and the racket of a million rocks rattling >>>> around in otherwise empty heads results in damage being done >>>> to ACORN.
>>>> Suppress ACORN, suppress the nigger vote. Smart move.
>>>> Love, Wolf.
>>> I guess that is why Nevada's Democratic Attorney General charged the >>> ACORN's >>> Director, Regional Director and Las Vegas Field Director for turning in >>> false voter registrations. The AG said as many as 48% were clearly >>> fraudulent.
>>> Should I provide information on charges from other States?
>>> It is disingenuous to call me stupid when you provide false information >>> on >>> issues.
>> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. >> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. >> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. >> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. >> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations.
>> Was that clear enough, even for the very simple-minded?
>> In Nevada, they broke state law by using a canvasser >> compensation scheme that was based on the number of >> names turned.
>> Apart from scattered onesies, I am still unaware of any >> instances where ACORN was involved in the casting of >> fraudulent ballots.
>> OK, now because I am becoming increasingly certain that >> you are a complete and total idiot, let's just take it >> as read that your next post is going to be, much like a >> dog shagging your leg, a sort of fevered "Did you know >> that ACORN turned in fraudulent registrations?"
>> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. >> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. >> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. >> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations. >> Yes, ACORN has generated fraudulent registrations.
>> Jeez. I'd think we should have an intelligence test >> for Republican voters, but it would eliminate most of >> the base.
>> Love, Wolf.
> Fabrications and childish name calling is not a substitute for debate. If > you were a Republican you might understand.
No, if I were a member of the *stupid* wing of the Party, then being reality-challenged might work for me.
Apart from scattered onesies, I am still unaware of any
...
Wolf Leverich wrote: > You can influence the outcome of elections in a bunch of ways, > besides simply persuading the electorate.
> (1) Straight-up voter fraud. Votes that are not legally > allowable are cast, or legitimate votes are discarded.
> (1a) Dead people, fake people, and so on vote in person > or by absentee.
> This can be enabled by bogus registrations like what ACORN's > street people were doing, but I'm not aware of any evidence > that there was ever an intent to vote the fradulent registrations.
> (1b) Election officials fail to count some legitimate votes, > or add bogus votes.
> (2) Voter registration and get-out-the-vote (GOTV) efforts.
> (3) Voter suppression efforts.
> (1a) was common 50 years ago, but notsomuch these days. I haven't > heard of a major (1a) effort in decades.
> (1b) happens. The Democrats will tell you Blackwell pulled that > in Ohio 2004, but I haven't seen proof so I mainly write that off > to over-active imaginations.
> (2) is important. Traditionally, Republican GOTV has been vastly > more successful that Democrats, which is goes a long way in explaining > how a party supported by 26% of the public has managed to rule so much.
> Thank God Blacks, kids, and the Rooseveltian elderly don't bother to > vote.
> (3) is important for us. You can really cut back on Black, Hispanic, > and youth voting with a modest amount of effort. I don't ordinarily > think of voter suppression as fraudulent, though some of the standard > ploys like telling Hispanic voters that the INS will be at the polling > places borders on fraudulent.
> So (1a) is rare, (1b) might happen but I wouldn't say for sure, (2) is > the mother's milk of elections, and (3) has been working for us lately.
> If you wanna call (3) "fraud", OK, but you're kinda shading off into a > world where you're applying the word "fraud" to acts that are technically > legal like caging.
> "Fraud" means nothing at all if you wind up including GOTV as "fraud".
> Love, Wolf.
Of course, purging voter rolls of legitimate voters, as was documented in Florida prior to the 2000 election, is fraud. Otherwise a good description, even though you apparently are on the other side of the fence...
Fiftycal wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:05:36 +0000 (UTC), "Dr. Brian Leverich" > <lever...@askin-17.linkpendium.com> wrote:
>> This is why letting the Caribou Barbie >> crowd out of their padded rooms was a Really Bad Idea, and why we >> should invite the guys with butterfly nets to come and collect >> them all at the next tea party they attend.
> Yep. Sarah Palin scares the living shit out of the > socialist/obammy-is-lord crowd,
Who would they be? The only people I have ever seen who think Obama-is-lord are Republicans! And I know [of] very few people who are real socialists, unlike Republicans, who think the words "liberal" and "socialist" both mean "not Republican enough" (thank you St. Ronald of Reagan).
Any empty-headed but charismatic person chosen for those very traits scares me if that person is touted to be a heartbeat away from, or to actually be, the President...
> like this sockpuppet. And the > INDIVIDUALS that stand up to be counted at the Tea Partys reinforces > that fear.
There are very few "individuals" at the astroturfed "Tea Parties." A lot of "Me Too"s and rubes who have no clue waht any of the issues are, though.
> And they are having to scurry around and create a > replacement for their shunned ACORN astroturfers.
Don't have a clue what the word means, do you?
> Wait til next week > and the NJ and VA fascist dimorat govs are unelected.
Well, since there are no fascist dimorats in office, I have no clue what you mean (though I do know what you think you mean and are too stupid to know how to say).
Wolf Leverich wrote: > On 2009-10-28, Fiftycal <n...@abcnnbcbs.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:05:36 +0000 (UTC), "Dr. Brian Leverich" >> <lever...@askin-17.linkpendium.com> wrote:
>>> This is why letting the Caribou Barbie >>> crowd out of their padded rooms was a Really Bad Idea, and why we >>> should invite the guys with butterfly nets to come and collect >>> them all at the next tea party they attend. >> Yep. Sarah Palin scares the living shit out of the >> socialist/obammy-is-lord crowd, like this sockpuppet. And the >> INDIVIDUALS that stand up to be counted at the Tea Partys reinforces >> that fear. And they are having to scurry around and create a >> replacement for their shunned ACORN astroturfers. Wait til next week >> and the NJ and VA fascist dimorat govs are unelected.
> Thank you for making my point about the stupid wing of > the party.
Good start.
> It is not absurd to apply "socialist" as a perjorative > to Democrats,
Oops, big pratfall...
> since socialism and particularly communism > is what you find out at the left end of the political > spectrum.
Which is where the Democrats are definitely NOT...
> But when you say "fascist" and "democrat" in the same > sentence, you're pretty well demonstrating that your > intellect prolly falls somewhere in the moron-imbecile- > idiot continuum.
> "Fascism" is extreme end of the *right*. It would make > sense for Democrats to accuse Cheney of fascist tendencies. > It makes no sense to accuse Democrats of it -- it's just > stupid.
> Oh, and while we're chatting, do pay attention to the notes > on the plastic bags that warn you that they are not toys and > that you should not put them over your head. Also, you have > not won the Nigerian lottery, no matter what that Official > E-mail might have told you. ;)
Moderate wrote: > "Wolf Leverich" <lever...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message > news:slrnhef0s1.q64.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com... >> On 2009-10-27, Moderate <sparky@_engineer_.com> wrote: >>> "Wolf Leverich" <lever...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message >>> news:slrnheeuq4.gk3.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com... >>>> On 2009-10-27, Scout <me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote: >>>>> Wolf Leverich wrote: >>>>>> On 2009-10-26, Moderate <no_spam_@no_mail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> "Wolf Leverich" <lever...@linkpendium.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:slrnhe4a59.o6u.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com... >>>>>>>> On 2009-10-23, Scout <me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> So tell me, what keeps those Democrats from going down to the DMV >>>>>>>>> to get an >>>>>>>>> ID card (which is BTW considerably cheaper to obtain than is a >>>>>>>>> driver's license)?
>>>>>>>>> After all, they are must likely going to need some sort of ID >>>>>>>>> anyway. Cash >>>>>>>>> checks, open bank accounts, buy alcohol or cigerettes, get a job, >>>>>>>>> apply for >>>>>>>>> SS, welfare, or finacial aid. In short, pretty much anything and >>>>>>>>> evereything >>>>>>>>> that one has to do to function in the world.
>>>>>>>>> So what exactly makes asking for an ID in order to vote so >>>>>>>>> oppressive?
>>>>>>>> Nothing, I love it.
>>>>>>>> The whole point is fewer Dems have ID than Rs. >>>>>>>> That's an empirical fact. I don't care if they >>>>>>>> theoretically could go to DMV -- they haven't.
>>>>>>>> If the same fraction of Dems had IDs as Rs, then >>>>>>>> this would be a pointless waste of time.
>>>>>>>> Love, Wolf. >>>>>>> The empirical fact is that Democrats commit voter fraud on a grand >>>>>>> scale. When you provide cites to implicate Republican's in voter >>>>>>> fraud your sources contained examples of Democratic voter fraud, but >>>>>>> not Republican.
>>>>>> Empirical fact, eh?
>>>>>> Cites?
>>>>>> Beyond scattered onesies, voter fraud largely ended after >>>>>> the ubiquitous computer made it too easily detectble. >>>>> And yet you have yet to tell me how you would detect the sort of voter >>>>> fraud >>>>> I pointed out, or why they haven't challenged me during the time period >>>>> where neither my DL or Address matched that of my voter registration. >>>> Are you registered as a Republican or a Democrat?
>>>> Republicans don't challenge Republicans, and Democrats are >>>> total lusers at voter suppression.
>>>> If you're a Democrat and you survived more than one election >>>> cycle in that configuration, your state Republican Party should >>>> hire me and I will fix that problem for a very modest fee.
>>>>> Yea, I certainly noticed how you claim it's so easily dedectiable, but >>>>> you >>>>> seem unable to address the various examples I ask you about.
>>>>> I think it's simply enough to note that you have stated that you: >>>>> 1) Are a Democrat >>>> Idiot. I'm a Republican Party activist since Goldwater. >>>> Former staffer in various Republican offices.
>>>> I'm one of the members of the fiscal conservative wing >>>> of the party, though, so I don't have much use for the >>>> stupid wing and the Taliban wing, except that their votes >>>> are useful and, because none of 'em are very bright, you >>>> don't actually have to pay much attention to them after >>>> the election.
>>>> Unfortunately, at the moment it has the feel of the inmates >>>> running the asylum. Caribou Barbie is a constant reminder >>>> of why you don't want to let the stupid people anywhere near >>>> the levers of power.
>>>>> 2) You will do whatever it takes to get your candidate elected >>>>> including: >>>>> A) Lying to us about how easy it is or isn't to engage in voter >>>>> fraud >>>>> B) Your acceptance, approval and potential involvement with voter >>>>> fraud.
>>>>> As such your empty assertions can't be accepted without supporting >>>>> evidence, >>>>> which you have been reluctant to provide, and that which you have >>>>> provided >>>>> seems to show the bulk of the voter fraud that occurs is done by >>>>> Democrats >>>>> who feel as you do about lying and engaging in fraud in order to get >>>>> their >>>>> candidate elected. >>>> Ah, horsefeathers. True 50 years ago, notsomuch any more.
>>>> Show me examples of modern large-scale voter fraud. The Texas >>>> AG's fuck-up is a textbook case of wishful stupidity running >>>> headlong into actual reality.
>>>> Voter fraud was killed by computers. The new game is voter >>>> suppression, essentially reinventing Jim Crow laws with a >>>> socially acceptable sugar coating. Democrats haven't learned >>>> to play this game, but we kicked ass with it in 2000 and 2004.
>>>> Love, Wolf. >>> Acorn.
>> Grow a brain. That was *registration* fraud.
>> And the cases I'm familiar with weren't even organized, >> intentional registration fraud unless you count hiring >> street people (or Young Republicans, as it happens!) to >> do canvassing counts as intentional fraud.
>> Most people who are intent on committing fraud do not >> segregate suspicious registrations from the good ones and >> identify the probably-bad registrations to the county >> registrars.
>> Do you have any evidence that any of the false registrations >> were made with an intent to support fraudulent voting?
>> Cites?
>> Love, Wolf.
> Get your head out of the sand and move away from de Nile. Acorn's voter > fraud is well documented and disgraceful.
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:46:29 -0800, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Love, Wolf.
>Of course, purging voter rolls of legitimate voters, as was documented >in Florida prior to the 2000 election, is fraud. Otherwise a good >description, even though you apparently are on the other side of the >fence...
Oh, look. It's "good" socialist and "bad" socialist. You bois been watching to much TV.
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:53:49 -0800, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Yep. Sarah Palin scares the living shit out of the >> socialist/obammy-is-lord crowd,
>Who would they be?
Find a mirror.
>> And they are having to scurry around and create a >> replacement for their shunned ACORN astroturfers.
>Don't have a clue what the word means, do you?
Yah. How much did you make for your last "demonstration"? Did ACORN give you a sack lunch or just $5?
The courthousenews is the stupid paying-canvassers-per- registration thing.
The Inquirer piece is fluff.
The Chi Trib piece is another paid canvasser doing fake regs.
The Star Trib is fluff. WooWoo, NEWSFLASH!, Republicans claim Dems cheated when they win. That's almost as shocking as Dems claiming Republicans cheated when Republicans win.
LOOK, IS EVERY OTHER FUCKING REPUBLICAN AN IDIOT?
My contention is that besides onesies, there isn't any evidence that ACORN is causing the CASTING OF FRAUDULENT BALLOTS.
You idiots keep talking about the fraudulent regs, which are well-known and of course have happened by the bucketful.
But fake regs don't affect elections. I could register the entire population of China in my small community and, apart from working our poor voter registrar to death, it doesn't matter at all.
So where's the evidence of massive organized ACORN *ballot* fraud?
> Of course, purging voter rolls of legitimate voters, as was documented > in Florida prior to the 2000 election, is fraud. Otherwise a good > description, even though you apparently are on the other side of the > fence...
> Dan
No, it's not fraud. It's a competent, workmanlike job of doing the ground game.
If you can prevent Democrats from voting and you don't go to jail for it, then you're doing your job.
"Fraud" might have been the Ohio 2004 post-game festivities, but, since I don't know how we did it, I'm inclined to just assume that it was one of those rare omega points way out past the usual confidence intervals.
Wolf Leverich wrote: > On 2009-10-30, HeyBub <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: >> Dan wrote: >>>> Get your head out of the sand and move away from de Nile. Acorn's >>>> voter fraud is well documented and disgraceful.
> The courthousenews is the stupid paying-canvassers-per- > registration thing.
> The Inquirer piece is fluff.
> The Chi Trib piece is another paid canvasser doing fake > regs.
> The Star Trib is fluff. WooWoo, NEWSFLASH!, Republicans > claim Dems cheated when they win. That's almost as shocking > as Dems claiming Republicans cheated when Republicans win.
> LOOK, IS EVERY OTHER FUCKING REPUBLICAN AN IDIOT?
> My contention is that besides onesies, there isn't any > evidence that ACORN is causing the CASTING OF FRAUDULENT > BALLOTS.
> You idiots keep talking about the fraudulent regs, which > are well-known and of course have happened by the bucketful.
> But fake regs don't affect elections. I could register the > entire population of China in my small community and, apart > from working our poor voter registrar to death, it doesn't > matter at all.
> So where's the evidence of massive organized ACORN *ballot* > fraud?
> It doesn't exist.
> Love, Wolf.
And NO ONE has accused ACORN of the favorite REPUBLICAN tactic [illegal] of tossing registrations of the opposite party (which was not actually institutionalized, either, just perpetrated by overzealous college-educated young Republicans).
And NO ONE has accused ACORN of purging the voter rolls of valid voters, as documented in Florida (and certainly happened elsewhere, perhaps even by both parties on smaller scales).
Sheesh, what a bunch of losers to keep bringing up this stuff.
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:56:26 -0800, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote: >HeyBub wrote: >> Dan wrote: >>>> Get your head out of the sand and move away from de Nile. Acorn's >>>> voter fraud is well documented and disgraceful.
>And nary a single instance of voter fraud! Nor a single case where any >of the events deemed less-than-ideal were institutional...
>Start paddling. De Nile is a LONG river.
>Dan
Well, praise allah that Congress has cut off their funding for the immediate future. Oh danny boy, why don't you give them some of your excess money? I'm sure they will put it to better use than you will.
> Wolf Leverich wrote: >> On 2009-10-30, HeyBub <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: >>> Dan wrote: >>>>> Get your head out of the sand and move away from de Nile. Acorn's >>>>> voter fraud is well documented and disgraceful.
>> The courthousenews is the stupid paying-canvassers-per- >> registration thing.
>> The Inquirer piece is fluff.
>> The Chi Trib piece is another paid canvasser doing fake >> regs.
>> The Star Trib is fluff. WooWoo, NEWSFLASH!, Republicans >> claim Dems cheated when they win. That's almost as shocking >> as Dems claiming Republicans cheated when Republicans win.
>> LOOK, IS EVERY OTHER FUCKING REPUBLICAN AN IDIOT?
>> My contention is that besides onesies, there isn't any >> evidence that ACORN is causing the CASTING OF FRAUDULENT >> BALLOTS.
>> You idiots keep talking about the fraudulent regs, which >> are well-known and of course have happened by the bucketful.
>> But fake regs don't affect elections. I could register the >> entire population of China in my small community and, apart >> from working our poor voter registrar to death, it doesn't >> matter at all.
>> So where's the evidence of massive organized ACORN *ballot* >> fraud?
>> It doesn't exist.
>> Love, Wolf.
> And NO ONE has accused ACORN of the favorite REPUBLICAN tactic [illegal] > of tossing registrations of the opposite party (which was not actually > institutionalized, either, just perpetrated by overzealous > college-educated young Republicans).
Yeah, we used to do this when I was a YR. In retrospect it seems naive and pointless, because you just can't screw with more than a relative handful of voters this way.
With modern technology, you can dump tens of thousands just as easily.
AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards. CO 2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations. 2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering three of her friends to vote 40 times. CT 2008 The New York Post reported that ACORN submitted a voter registration card for a 7-year-old Bridgeport girl. Another 8,000 cards from the same city will be scrutinized for possible fraud. FL 2009 In September, 11 ACORN workers were accused of forging voter registration applications in Miami-Dade County during the last election. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the state attorney’s office scoured hundreds of suspicious applications provided by ACORN and found 197 of 260 contained personal ID information that did not match any living person. 2008 Election officials in Brevard County have given prosecutors more than 23 suspect registrations from ACORN. The state's Division of Elections is also investigating complaints in Orange and Broward Counties. 2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was “singled out” among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was “the common thread” in the agency’s fraud investigations. IN 2008 Election officials in Indiana have thrown out more than 4,000 ACORN-submitted voter registrations after finding they had identical handwriting and included the names of many deceased Indianans, and even the name of a fast food restaurant. MI 2008 Clerks in Detroit found a "sizeable number of duplicate and fraudulent [voter] applications" from the Michigan branch of ACORN. Those applications have been turned over to the U.S. Attorney's office for investigation. 2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that “overzealous or unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered voters.” ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of turning in the documents. MO 2008 Nearly 400 ACORN-submitted registrations in Kansas City have been rejected due to duplication or fake information. 2007 Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges including identity theft and filing false registrations during the 2006 election. 2006 Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in prison for forging signatures and submitting false information. 2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to be attempts to register voters illegally. MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed. NC 2008 County elections officials have sent suspicious voter registration applications to the state Board of Elections. Many of the applications had similar or identical names, but with different addresses or dates of birth. 2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake voter registration cards. NM 2008 Prosecutors are investigating more than 1,100 ACORN-submitted voter registration cards after a county clerk found them to be fraudulent. Many of the cards included duplicate names and slightly altered personal information. 2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially fraudulent signatures on the group’s Albuquerque ballot initiative. A local sheriff added: “It’s safe to say the forgery was widespread.” 2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson stated that ACORN was “manufacturing voters” throughout New Mexico. NV 2009 Nevada authorities indicted ACORN on 26 counts of voter registration fraud and 13 counts of illegally compensating canvassers. ACORN provided a bonus compensation program called “Blackjack” or “21+” for any canvasser who registered more than 20 voters per shift, which is illegal under Nevada law. 2008 Nevada state authorities raided ACORN's Las Vegas headquarters as part of a task force investigation of election fraud. Fraudulent registrations included players from the Dallas Cowboys. OH 2008 ACORN activists gave Ohio residents cash and cigarettes in exchange for filling out voter registration card, according to the New York Post. Some voters claim to have registered dozens of times, and one man says he signed up on 72 cards. 2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties. 2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election supervisors called “blatantly false” forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group. PA 2009 Seven ACORN workers in the Pittsburgh area were indicted for submitting falsified voter registration forms. Six of the seven were also indicted for registering voters under an illegal quota system. 2008 State election officials have thrown out 57,435 voter registrations, the majority of which were submitted by ACORN. The registrations were thrown out after officials found "clearly fraudulent" signatures, vacant lots listed as addresses, and other signs of fraud. 2008 An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail. 2004 Reading’s Director of Elections received calls from numerous individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director of elections said voter fraud was “absolutely out of hand,” and added: “Not only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter registrations.” The Berks County deputy director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice. TX 2008 In Harris County, nearly 10,000 ACORN-submitted registrations were found to be invalid, including many with clearly fraudulent addresses or other personal information. 2008 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who told reporters “The signature is not my signature. It’s not even close.” His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect. VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.
In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally,” they wrote, “information appears to have been altered on some applications where information given by the applicant in one color ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 Felony in accordance with § 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia." WA 2007 Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive. WI 2008 At least 33,000 ACORN-submitted registrations in Milwaukee have been called into question after it was found that the organizations had been using felons as registration workers, in violation of state election rules. Two people involved in the ongoing Wisconsin voter fraud investigation have been charged with felonies. 2004 The district attorney’s office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, “an apparent violation of state law,” according to the paper.
You are precisely what's wrong with the contemporary Republican Party. Obviously your central nervous system terminates at the medulla oblongata.
If you read your own list, virtually all of these are examples of *registration* fraud. Most are the result of paying street people piecework rates to generate filled-out cards.
Registration fraud is annoying to the voter registrar's office because it forces the brainless shitwork sorting out the trash from the valid registrations, but it has -0- impact on the outcome of elections.
I could register all 1.3 billion Chinese in Kern County and, apart from giving my local registrar a heart attack, it would have no impact at all on the outcome of any election.
FOR THE VERY STUPID (that is, pretty much anyone who will still admits to being a Republican in public): the hard bit is showing that Acorn activity has caused actual *ballot* fraud, let alone actually changed outcome of any elections.
Apart from a few noise-level instances, I am not aware of any evidence of meaningful Acorn *ballot* fraud, and off-hand I don't know of *any* election where the outcome was affected. (Though there's gotta be a dogcatcher race affected somewhere, with some tens of thousands of politicians elected every cycle in America.)
DON'T BE STUPID. If you want to engage in this discussion, bring in some examples of actual Acorn *ballot* fraud that affected the actual outcome of one or more elections.
> AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for > falsifying about 400 voter registration cards. > CO 2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for > submitting false voter registrations. > 2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering > three of her friends to vote 40 times. > CT 2008 The New York Post reported that ACORN submitted a voter > registration card for a 7-year-old Bridgeport girl. Another 8,000 cards > from the same city will be scrutinized for possible fraud. > FL 2009 In September, 11 ACORN workers were accused of forging voter > registration applications in Miami-Dade County during the last election. > The Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the state attorney’s > office scoured hundreds of suspicious applications provided by ACORN and > found 197 of 260 contained personal ID information that did not match > any living person. > 2008 Election officials in Brevard County have given prosecutors more > than 23 suspect registrations from ACORN. The state's Division of > Elections is also investigating complaints in Orange and Broward Counties. > 2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was > “singled out” among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage > initiative because it was “the common thread” in the agency’s fraud > investigations. > IN 2008 Election officials in Indiana have thrown out more than 4,000 > ACORN-submitted voter registrations after finding they had identical > handwriting and included the names of many deceased Indianans, and even > the name of a fast food restaurant. > MI 2008 Clerks in Detroit found a "sizeable number of duplicate and > fraudulent [voter] applications" from the Michigan branch of ACORN. > Those applications have been turned over to the U.S. Attorney's office > for investigation. > 2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that “overzealous or unscrupulous > campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation > for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register > nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered > voters.” ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of > turning in the documents. > MO 2008 Nearly 400 ACORN-submitted registrations in Kansas City have > been rejected due to duplication or fake information. > 2007 Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges > including identity theft and filing false registrations during the 2006 > election. > 2006 Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal > election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in > prison for forging signatures and submitting false information. > 2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, > only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to > be attempts to register voters illegally. > MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter > registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had > violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to > the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed. > NC 2008 County elections officials have sent suspicious voter > registration applications to the state Board of Elections. Many of the > applications had similar or identical names, but with different > addresses or dates of birth. > 2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake > voter registration cards. > NM 2008 Prosecutors are investigating more than 1,100 ACORN-submitted > voter registration cards after a county clerk found them to be > fraudulent. Many of the cards included duplicate names and slightly > altered personal information. > 2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially > fraudulent signatures on the group’s Albuquerque ballot initiative. A > local sheriff added: “It’s safe to say the forgery was widespread.” > 2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing > this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson > stated that ACORN was “manufacturing voters” throughout New Mexico. > NV 2009 Nevada authorities indicted ACORN on 26 counts of voter > registration fraud and 13 counts of illegally compensating canvassers. > ACORN provided a bonus compensation program called “Blackjack” or “21+” > for any canvasser who registered more than 20 voters per shift, which is > illegal under Nevada law. > 2008 Nevada state authorities raided ACORN's Las Vegas headquarters > as part of a task force investigation of election fraud. Fraudulent > registrations included players from the Dallas Cowboys. > OH 2008 ACORN activists gave Ohio residents cash and cigarettes in > exchange for filling out voter registration card, according to the New > York Post. Some voters claim to have registered dozens of times, and one > man says he signed up on 72 cards. > 2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal > voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote > in two separate counties. > 2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a > false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, > two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election > supervisors called “blatantly false” forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN > and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the > highest rate of errors for any voter registration group. > PA 2009 Seven ACORN workers in the Pittsburgh area were indicted for > submitting falsified voter registration forms. Six of the seven were > also indicted for registering voters under an illegal quota system. > 2008 State election officials have thrown out 57,435 voter > registrations, the majority of which were submitted by ACORN. The > registrations were thrown out after officials found "clearly fraudulent" > signatures, vacant lots listed as addresses, and other signs of fraud. > 2008 An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 > months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second > ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on > $10,000 bail. > 2004 Reading’s Director of Elections received calls from numerous > individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate > information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director > of elections said voter fraud was “absolutely out of hand,” and added: > “Not only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but > we have blatant duplicate voter registrations.” The Berks County deputy > director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the > Department of Justice. > TX 2008 In Harris County, nearly 10,000 ACORN-submitted registrations > were found to be invalid, including many with clearly fraudulent > addresses or other personal information. > 2008 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who > told reporters “The signature is not my signature. It’s not even close.” > His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect. > VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished > Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty > voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations > that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were > submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social > security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or > commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state > and federal election law.
> In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of > the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. > Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required > by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to > be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally,” they wrote, > “information
> DON'T BE STUPID. If you want to engage in this discussion, bring > in some examples of actual Acorn *ballot* fraud that affected the > actual outcome of one or more elections.
> Love, Wolf.
You asked for evidence of ACORN fraud and it was presented. Now you try to change the parameter of your question. YAWN. So typical. During the time-frame of the reported ACORN fraud in Washington State (see the cite below) the governor's race that year hinged on less than 200 votes. It involved re-counts and a court battle. The ACORN fraud was discovered well AFTER the democrat governor was sworn in. The ACORN fraud was definitely seen as driving the outcome of that race.
>> AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested >> for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards. >> CO 2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury >> for submitting false voter registrations. >> 2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and >> registering three of her friends to vote 40 times. >> CT 2008 The New York Post reported that ACORN submitted a voter >> registration card for a 7-year-old Bridgeport girl. Another 8,000 >> cards from the same city will be scrutinized for possible fraud. >> FL 2009 In September, 11 ACORN workers were accused of forging voter >> registration applications in Miami-Dade County during the last >> election. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the state >> attorney's >> office scoured hundreds of suspicious applications provided by ACORN >> and found 197 of 260 contained personal ID information that did not >> match >> any living person. >> 2008 Election officials in Brevard County have given prosecutors >> more than 23 suspect registrations from ACORN. The state's Division >> of Elections is also investigating complaints in Orange and Broward >> Counties. 2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman >> said ACORN was "singled out" among suspected voter registration >> groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was "the common thread" >> in the agency's fraud investigations. >> IN 2008 Election officials in Indiana have thrown out more than 4,000 >> ACORN-submitted voter registrations after finding they had identical >> handwriting and included the names of many deceased Indianans, and >> even the name of a fast food restaurant. >> MI 2008 Clerks in Detroit found a "sizeable number of duplicate and >> fraudulent [voter] applications" from the Michigan branch of ACORN. >> Those applications have been turned over to the U.S. Attorney's >> office for investigation. >> 2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that "overzealous or >> unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under >> investigation >> for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register >> nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered >> voters." ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups >> suspected of turning in the documents. >> MO 2008 Nearly 400 ACORN-submitted registrations in Kansas City have >> been rejected due to duplication or fake information. >> 2007 Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges >> including identity theft and filing false registrations during the >> 2006 election. >> 2006 Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal >> election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in >> prison for forging signatures and submitting false information. >> 2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, >> only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are >> believed to be attempts to register voters illegally. >> MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter >> registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had >> violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to >> the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed. >> NC 2008 County elections officials have sent suspicious voter >> registration applications to the state Board of Elections. Many of >> the applications had similar or identical names, but with different >> addresses or dates of birth. >> 2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake >> voter registration cards. >> NM 2008 Prosecutors are investigating more than 1,100 ACORN-submitted >> voter registration cards after a county clerk found them to be >> fraudulent. Many of the cards included duplicate names and slightly >> altered personal information. >> 2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially >> fraudulent signatures on the group's Albuquerque ballot initiative. A >> local sheriff added: "It's safe to say the forgery was widespread." >> 2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing >> this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson >> stated that ACORN was "manufacturing voters" throughout New Mexico. >> NV 2009 Nevada authorities indicted ACORN on 26 counts of voter >> registration fraud and 13 counts of illegally compensating >> canvassers. ACORN provided a bonus compensation program called >> "Blackjack" or "21+" for any canvasser who registered more than 20 >> voters per shift, which is illegal under Nevada law. >> 2008 Nevada state authorities raided ACORN's Las Vegas headquarters >> as part of a task force investigation of election fraud. Fraudulent >> registrations included players from the Dallas Cowboys. >> OH 2008 ACORN activists gave Ohio residents cash and cigarettes in >> exchange for filling out voter registration card, according to the >> New York Post. Some voters claim to have registered dozens of times, >> and one man says he signed up on 72 cards. >> 2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of >> illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by >> ACORN to vote >> in two separate counties. >> 2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a >> false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin >> County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board >> of election supervisors called "blatantly false" forms. In Cuyahoga >> County, ACORN >> and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had >> the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group. >> PA 2009 Seven ACORN workers in the Pittsburgh area were indicted for >> submitting falsified voter registration forms. Six of the seven were >> also indicted for registering voters under an illegal quota system. >> 2008 State election officials have thrown out 57,435 voter >> registrations, the majority of which were submitted by ACORN. The >> registrations were thrown out after officials found "clearly >> fraudulent" signatures, vacant lots listed as addresses, and other >> signs of fraud. 2008 An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was >> sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and >> tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to >> the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail. >> 2004 Reading's Director of Elections received calls from numerous >> individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put >> inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks >> County director of elections said voter fraud was "absolutely out of >> hand," and added: "Not only do we have unintentional duplication of >> voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter >> registrations." The Berks County deputy director of elections added >> that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice. >> TX 2008 In Harris County, nearly 10,000 ACORN-submitted registrations >> were found to be invalid, including many with clearly fraudulent >> addresses or other personal information. >> 2008 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who >> told reporters "The signature is not my signature. It's not even >> close." His social security number and date of birth were also >> incorrect. >> VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished >> Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty >> voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled >> registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable >> information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these >> registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other >> people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for >> convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.
>> In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% >> of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were >> ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely >> manner, as required >> by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared >> to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally," they >> wrote, "information appears to have been altered on some >> applications where information given by the applicant in one color >> ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. >> Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 >> Felony in accordance with § >> 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia." >> WA 2007 Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were >> charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington >> state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards >> were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive. >> WI 2008 At least 33,000 ACORN-submitted registrations in Milwaukee >> have been called into question after it was found that the >> organizations had been using felons as
>> DON'T BE STUPID. If you want to engage in this discussion, bring >> in some examples of actual Acorn *ballot* fraud that affected the >> actual outcome of one or more elections.
>> Love, Wolf.
> You asked for evidence of ACORN fraud and it was presented. Now you try to > change the parameter of your question. YAWN. So typical. During the > time-frame of the reported ACORN fraud in Washington State (see the cite > below) the governor's race that year hinged on less than 200 votes. It > involved re-counts and a court battle. The ACORN fraud was discovered well > AFTER the democrat governor was sworn in. The ACORN fraud was definitely > seen as driving the outcome of that race.
He changed the parameter of his question several weeks ago. His argument that Republicans commit more voter fraud than Democrats fell flat on its face so he changed the subject.
Yet another Republican with 3rd-grade reading comprehension skills! You prolly think there were WMD in Iraq and the Earth is 6,000 years old, too, right ?
I wrote, and you quoted it below, "So where's the evidence of massive organized ACORN *ballot* fraud?" And you are so stupid that you think serving up all the well-known instances of registration fraud by ACORN's street-people canvassers has something to do with *ballot* fraud.
Imbecile.
And the Washington state governorship was prolly one of the most litigated elections ever held. At the end of the day, the Republicans basically got laughed out of court. Talking about that election as an example of fraud is something only as stupid as Sarah Palin could possibly do.
Grow a brain. Or Darwin yourself. You're bad news for the party.
Love, Wolf.
On 2009-11-20, Dave Bugg <davebu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> DON'T BE STUPID. If you want to engage in this discussion, bring >> in some examples of actual Acorn *ballot* fraud that affected the >> actual outcome of one or more elections.
>> Love, Wolf.
> You asked for evidence of ACORN fraud and it was presented. Now you try to > change the parameter of your question. YAWN. So typical. During the > time-frame of the reported ACORN fraud in Washington State (see the cite > below) the governor's race that year hinged on less than 200 votes. It > involved re-counts and a court battle. The ACORN fraud was discovered well > AFTER the democrat governor was sworn in. The ACORN fraud was definitely > seen as driving the outcome of that race.
>>> AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested >>> for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards. >>> CO 2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury >>> for submitting false voter registrations. >>> 2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and >>> registering three of her friends to vote 40 times. >>> CT 2008 The New York Post reported that ACORN submitted a voter >>> registration card for a 7-year-old Bridgeport girl. Another 8,000 >>> cards from the same city will be scrutinized for possible fraud. >>> FL 2009 In September, 11 ACORN workers were accused of forging voter >>> registration applications in Miami-Dade County during the last >>> election. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the state >>> attorney's >>> office scoured hundreds of suspicious applications provided by ACORN >>> and found 197 of 260 contained personal ID information that did not >>> match >>> any living person. >>> 2008 Election officials in Brevard County have given prosecutors >>> more than 23 suspect registrations from ACORN. The state's Division >>> of Elections is also investigating complaints in Orange and Broward >>> Counties. 2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman >>> said ACORN was "singled out" among suspected voter registration >>> groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was "the common thread" >>> in the agency's fraud investigations. >>> IN 2008 Election officials in Indiana have thrown out more than 4,000 >>> ACORN-submitted voter registrations after finding they had identical >>> handwriting and included the names of many deceased Indianans, and >>> even the name of a fast food restaurant. >>> MI 2008 Clerks in Detroit found a "sizeable number of duplicate and >>> fraudulent [voter] applications" from the Michigan branch of ACORN. >>> Those applications have been turned over to the U.S. Attorney's >>> office for investigation. >>> 2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that "overzealous or >>> unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under >>> investigation >>> for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register >>> nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered >>> voters." ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups >>> suspected of turning in the documents. >>> MO 2008 Nearly 400 ACORN-submitted registrations in Kansas City have >>> been rejected due to duplication or fake information. >>> 2007 Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges >>> including identity theft and filing false registrations during the >>> 2006 election. >>> 2006 Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal >>> election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in >>> prison for forging signatures and submitting false information. >>> 2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, >>> only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are >>> believed to be attempts to register voters illegally. >>> MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter >>> registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had >>> violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to >>> the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed. >>> NC 2008 County elections officials have sent suspicious voter >>> registration applications to the state Board of Elections. Many of >>> the applications had similar or identical names, but with different >>> addresses or dates of birth. >>> 2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake >>> voter registration cards. >>> NM 2008 Prosecutors are investigating more than 1,100 ACORN-submitted >>> voter registration cards after a county clerk found them to be >>> fraudulent. Many of the cards included duplicate names and slightly >>> altered personal information. >>> 2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially >>> fraudulent signatures on the group's Albuquerque ballot initiative. A >>> local sheriff added: "It's safe to say the forgery was widespread." >>> 2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing >>> this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson >>> stated that ACORN was "manufacturing voters" throughout New Mexico. >>> NV 2009 Nevada authorities indicted ACORN on 26 counts of voter >>> registration fraud and 13 counts of illegally compensating >>> canvassers. ACORN provided a bonus compensation program called >>> "Blackjack" or "21+" for any canvasser who registered more than 20 >>> voters per shift, which is illegal under Nevada law. >>> 2008 Nevada state authorities raided ACORN's Las Vegas headquarters >>> as part of a task force investigation of election fraud. Fraudulent >>> registrations included players from the Dallas Cowboys. >>> OH 2008 ACORN activists gave Ohio residents cash and cigarettes in >>> exchange for filling out voter registration card, according to the >>> New York Post. Some voters claim to have registered dozens of times, >>> and one man says he signed up on 72 cards. >>> 2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of >>> illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by >>> ACORN to vote >>> in two separate counties. >>> 2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a >>> false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin >>> County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board >>> of election supervisors called "blatantly false" forms. In Cuyahoga >>> County, ACORN >>> and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had >>> the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group. >>> PA 2009 Seven ACORN workers in the Pittsburgh area were indicted for >>> submitting falsified voter registration forms. Six of the seven were >>> also indicted for registering voters under an illegal quota system. >>> 2008 State election officials have thrown out 57,435 voter >>> registrations, the majority of which were submitted by ACORN. The >>> registrations were thrown out after officials found "clearly >>> fraudulent" signatures, vacant lots listed as addresses, and other >>> signs of fraud. 2008 An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was >>> sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and >>> tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to >>> the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail. >>> 2004 Reading's Director of Elections received calls from numerous >>> individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put >>> inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks >>> County director of elections said voter fraud was "absolutely out of >>> hand," and added: "Not only do we have unintentional duplication of >>> voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter >>> registrations." The Berks County deputy director of elections added >>> that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice. >>> TX 2008 In Harris County, nearly 10,000 ACORN-submitted registrations >>> were found to be invalid, including many with clearly fraudulent >>> addresses or other personal information. >>> 2008 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who >>> told reporters "The signature is not my signature. It's not even >>> close." His social security number and date of birth were also >>> incorrect. >>> VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished >>> Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty >>> voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled >>> registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable >>> information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these >>> registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other >>> people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for >>> convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.
>>> In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% >>> of the voter
>>> DON'T BE STUPID. If you want to engage in this discussion, bring >>> in some examples of actual Acorn *ballot* fraud that affected the >>> actual outcome of one or more elections.
>>> Love, Wolf.
>> You asked for evidence of ACORN fraud and it was presented. Now you try to >> change the parameter of your question. YAWN. So typical. During the >> time-frame of the reported ACORN fraud in Washington State (see the cite >> below) the governor's race that year hinged on less than 200 votes. It >> involved re-counts and a court battle. The ACORN fraud was discovered well >> AFTER the democrat governor was sworn in. The ACORN fraud was definitely >> seen as driving the outcome of that race.
> He changed the parameter of his question several weeks ago. His argument > that Republicans commit more voter fraud than Democrats fell flat on its > face so he changed the subject.
Better reading comprehension skills than most. ;)
But I don't think I would have argued that Republicans commit more voter fraud, or at least *ballot* fraud, than Democrats. I'd have to look at the current stats.
Some things like the Ohio 2004 post-game play look interesting from that perspective, but I don't know how that election was stolen so it's pretty much an exercise in empty paranoia talking about it.
What is true is that Republicans engage in wholesale voter *suppression*. It's what conservatives *do*, because we're only about a quarter of the population and the main trick to winning is preventing the bad guys in the other 3/4ths of the population from voting.
We'd be living here in Sweden if we actually let democracy work. ;)
Fortunately Democratic turnout is naturally lower than Republican turnout, and the nice-nice pansies over on their side just suck it up when we disenfranchise them by the tens of thousands in the pre-game festivities.
> Yet another Republican with 3rd-grade reading comprehension skills! > You prolly think there were WMD in Iraq and the Earth is 6,000 years > old, too, right ?
Translation: "Oops, shown up again to be the massive twit that I am."
> I wrote, and you quoted it below, ....
Blah, blah, blah. Nice try at misdirection, but it doesn't work. What was show was that in Washington State, the amount of fraud that was caught, was indicative of the broader base of fraudulent ballots that got through. That was the reason why the number of ballots cast and COUNTED did not match, by the hundreds, the number of registered voters.
> Imbecile.
Shank-puller
> And the Washington state governorship was prolly one of the most > litigated elections ever held.
Not really, but we are waiting for you to tie this into some sort of point rather than as a silly, ignorant rant.
> At the end of the day, the Republicans > basically got laughed out of court.
That's interesting. Since I live in Wenatchee (where the case was heard) and attended most of the sessions (including the decision that was handed down), I saw no evidence of laughter. I observed massive relief exhibited by the council representing Gregoire's side. I also observed both sides tongue-lashing the King County Auditor's Office, along with stated disappointment in Sam Reed's office (and of course you know who he is since you state a great familiarity with Washington State's elections)
But then I must've missed you in court. You were their weren't you? You wrote like you were.
> Talking about that election > as an example of fraud is something only as stupid as Sarah Palin > could possibly do.
Ahhhh, no facts so let's toss around self-percieved bad-things. Bwahahahahahahah!!!!
> Grow a brain.
Why? Need one?
> Or Darwin yourself.
Makes a great Halloween costume. But then you knew Halloween was over, right?
> You're bad news for the party.
What party? OH, you think I belong to a party and junk. Braaaaaaaak. Wrong again. Do you ever have any facts or do you just live on suppositions? -- Dave What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan
Dave Bugg wrote: > Wolf Leverich wrote: >> WE HAVE ANOTHER WINNER!
>> Yet another Republican with 3rd-grade reading comprehension skills! >> You prolly think there were WMD in Iraq and the Earth is 6,000 years >> old, too, right ?
> Translation: "Oops, shown up again to be the massive twit that I am."
>> I wrote, and you quoted it below, ....
> Blah, blah, blah. Nice try at misdirection, but it doesn't work. What was > show was that in Washington State, the amount of fraud that was caught, was > indicative of the broader base of fraudulent ballots that got through. That > was the reason why the number of ballots cast and COUNTED did not match, by > the hundreds, the number of registered voters.
>> Imbecile.
> Shank-puller
>> And the Washington state governorship was prolly one of the most >> litigated elections ever held.
> Not really, but we are waiting for you to tie this into some sort of point > rather than as a silly, ignorant rant.
>> At the end of the day, the Republicans >> basically got laughed out of court.
> That's interesting. Since I live in Wenatchee (where the case was heard) and > attended most of the sessions (including the decision that was handed down), > I saw no evidence of laughter. I observed massive relief exhibited by the > council representing Gregoire's side. I also observed both sides > tongue-lashing the King County Auditor's Office, along with stated > disappointment in Sam Reed's office (and of course you know who he is since > you state a great familiarity with Washington State's elections)
> But then I must've missed you in court. You were their weren't you? You > wrote like you were.
>> Talking about that election >> as an example of fraud is something only as stupid as Sarah Palin >> could possibly do.
> Ahhhh, no facts so let's toss around self-percieved bad-things. > Bwahahahahahahah!!!!
>> Grow a brain.
> Why? Need one?
>> Or Darwin yourself.
> Makes a great Halloween costume. But then you knew Halloween was over, > right?
>> You're bad news for the party.
> What party? OH, you think I belong to a party and junk. Braaaaaaaak. Wrong > again. Do you ever have any facts or do you just live on suppositions?
You'd be amazed what an egomaniac he is.
Get him to tell you all bout his mansion and net worth.
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