Will be using for live sound but right now trying to record from Direct outs.
Manual says "set fader to 0, master faders to 0, press pfl and adjust gain to just reaching 0db".
When I do this using the D112 on the kick drum the pfl meter goes all the way up with the gain down all the way. It appears that the pfl is post-eq and I have the eq s set flat.What should I do or is this to be expected on a kick drum?
When I last used the board for my band about 11 years ago we had a sound man and he did not indicate there was any problem. He did have gates on all the drum mics via the channel inserts.
On this board the mic inputs are all XLRs and the line inputs are TRS. To use the line inputs the line select switch needs to be engaged which disengages the xLR inputs and reduces the gain range by 20db according to the manual.
Any thoughts welcome.
I am posting to both groups since it is a recording and live sound issue and the current noise level on APLS
> old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic
> Will be using for live sound but right now trying to record from Direct > outs.
> Manual says "set fader to 0, master faders to 0, press pfl and adjust gain > to just reaching 0db".
> When I do this using the D112 on the kick drum the pfl meter goes all the > way up with the gain down all the way. It appears that the pfl is post-eq > and I have the eq s set flat.What should I do or is this to be expected on > a kick drum?
> When I last used the board for my band about 11 years ago we had a sound > man and he did not indicate there was any problem. He did have gates on > all the drum mics via the channel inserts.
> On this board the mic inputs are all XLRs and the line inputs are TRS. To > use the line inputs the line select switch needs to be engaged which > disengages the xLR inputs and reduces the gain range by 20db according to > the manual.
> Any thoughts welcome.
> I am posting to both groups since it is a recording and live sound issue > and the current noise level on APLS
> Thanks
> Mike
> When
Mike start with moving the mic further away from the beater, the d112 is a clicky mic anyway and would benifit from more shell sound and less direct beater, the distance will also reduce the output of the mic
On some soundcrafts, the ghost as one,(I am not intimate with your desk with out looking it up) uses the Mic/Line switch as the pad , which is what you need to do there is no problem selecting the input as "line" when using a hot mic
a true pad would be avaialbe to pad both the line and mic levels but your goal is to get the proper level of signal moving through your desk and this is indicated by the PFL(pre fade level) and Clip indicators the alternate would be to use a external Pad, these are easy to make or can be ordered from any pro sound jobber for under 30$ usa George
> old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic
> Will be using for live sound but right now trying to record from Direct > outs.
> Manual says "set fader to 0, master faders to 0, press pfl and adjust gain > to just reaching 0db".
> When I do this using the D112 on the kick drum the pfl meter goes all the > way up with the gain down all the way. It appears that the pfl is post-eq > and I have the eq s set flat.What should I do or is this to be expected on > a kick drum?
** Taking what you say as literal fact - that poor D112 has about five minutes left to live !!
For Christ's sake BACK it away from the drum skin !!!
Or you will damn soon be looking to buy another mic.
BTW:
Despite what another poster says, having to use the pad switch on a SL4 is a mistake with *dynamic* mics.
"mkm" wrote: > old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic > ... the pfl meter goes all the way up with the gain down all the way. It > appears that the pfl is post-eq and I have the eq s set flat.What should I > do
Like others said, just increase the distance from the drum. You did not say where the mic is, relative to the drum. Is it stuffed right up close to the beater spot? Is it sitting well out by the front rim? Does the drum have a front head with a hole? No front head, at all? These make a difference. Another trick is to angle the mic so it's not pointed dead on towards the beater. Aim it at the corner where head and shell meet. And, as another poster said, overloading the mic could lead to traumatic failure of the diaphragm. Though, the 112 is *supposed* to be built for high SPL, it isn't bullet proof.
> When I last used the board for my band about 11 years ago we had a sound > man and he did not indicate there was any problem. He did have gates on > all the drum mics via the channel inserts.
Gates wouldn't make any difference. If it was a combo compressor/gate unit, he may have been using the comp.
> On this board the mic inputs are all XLRs and the line inputs are TRS. To > use the line inputs the line select switch needs to be engaged which > disengages the xLR inputs
I went through the trouble of looking at the manual, online. Seems odd that the mic/line switch functions as it does. Most consoles apply that switch as a pad for the xlr input. Typically, the xlr input would remain in the path even when the switch is engaged. Weird application, and not what I'd expect.
> "mkm" wrote: >> old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic >> ... the pfl meter goes all the way up with the gain down all the way. It >> appears that the pfl is post-eq and I have the eq s set flat.What should >> I do
> Like others said, just increase the distance from the drum. You did not > say > where the mic is, relative to the drum. Is it stuffed right up close to > the beater spot? Is it sitting well out by the front rim? Does the drum > have a front head with a hole? No front head, at all? > These make a difference. > Another trick is to angle the mic so it's not pointed dead on towards > the beater. Aim it at the corner where head and shell meet. > And, as another poster said, overloading the mic could lead to > traumatic failure of the diaphragm. Though, the 112 is *supposed* > to be built for high SPL, it isn't bullet proof.
>> When I last used the board for my band about 11 years ago we had a sound >> man and he did not indicate there was any problem. He did have gates on >> all the drum mics via the channel inserts.
> Gates wouldn't make any difference. If it was a combo > compressor/gate unit, he may have been using the comp.
>> On this board the mic inputs are all XLRs and the line inputs are TRS. To >> use the line inputs the line select switch needs to be engaged which >> disengages the xLR inputs
> I went through the trouble of looking at the manual, online. Seems odd > that the mic/line switch functions as it does. Most consoles apply that > switch as a pad for the xlr input. Typically, the xlr input would remain > in the path even when the switch is engaged. Weird application, and > not what I'd expect.
> -- > Steve <snip> McQ
I guess that is why I felt the need to say I did not know "this" desk without looking it up Thanks Steve and Mike George
> "McSteve" <mcsteve13...@verizon.net> wrote in message > news:hcs2dn$i3d$1@aioe.org... >> Like others said, just increase the distance from the drum. You did not >> say >> where the mic is, relative to the drum. Is it stuffed right up close to >> the beater spot? Is it sitting well out by the front rim? Does the drum >> have a front head with a hole? No front head, at all?
>> Gates wouldn't make any difference. If it was a combo >> compressor/gate unit, he may have been using the comp.
>> I went through the trouble of looking at the manual, online. Seems odd >> that the mic/line switch functions as it does. Most consoles apply that >> switch as a pad for the xlr input. Typically, the xlr input would remain >> in the path even when the switch is engaged. Weird application, and >> not what I'd expect.
>> -- >> Steve <snip> McQ
> I guess that is why I felt the need to say I did not know "this" desk > without looking it up > Thanks Steve and Mike > George
Kick has a front head with a hole. Mic is just inside the hole.
Gate was strictly a gate. Old peavey 5 channel Gatekeeper
> George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: >> "McSteve" <mcsteve13...@verizon.net> wrote in message >> news:hcs2dn$i3d$1@aioe.org...
>>> Like others said, just increase the distance from the drum. You did not >>> say >>> where the mic is, relative to the drum. Is it stuffed right up close to >>> the beater spot? Is it sitting well out by the front rim? Does the drum >>> have a front head with a hole? No front head, at all?
>>> Gates wouldn't make any difference. If it was a combo >>> compressor/gate unit, he may have been using the comp.
>>> I went through the trouble of looking at the manual, online. Seems odd >>> that the mic/line switch functions as it does. Most consoles apply that >>> switch as a pad for the xlr input. Typically, the xlr input would remain >>> in the path even when the switch is engaged. Weird application, and >>> not what I'd expect.
>>> -- >>> Steve <snip> McQ
>> I guess that is why I felt the need to say I did not know "this" desk >> without looking it up >> Thanks Steve and Mike >> George
> Kick has a front head with a hole. Mic is just inside the hole.
> Gate was strictly a gate. Old peavey 5 channel Gatekeeper
> Mike
It would be hard to imagine how hard the drum would need to be kicked to grossly overload a input with a d122 at the hole if the clip is just blinking(or pfl hitting peak) for extremly short burst only on the very peak of the kick you will not have a problem. I use peaking as a tool at times, but especiially on kick to add the attack that is often lost this is one reason I often mic the kick with two mics one for the UMPH of the drum , usually a D6 and one on the beater often a d112 or a beta 57a George
"mkm" wrote: > Kick has a front head with a hole. Mic is just inside the hole.
Simple enough. Just put the mic *outside* the hole. It's a common mistake for inexperienced people to look to the console for a solution in situations like this. Mic position can fix a myriad of issues. I see too many BEs reach for the EQ on the strip and do radical cut/boost when all they had to do was move the frickin mic.
> Just starting to use my old equipment again. > old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic > Will be using for live sound but right now trying to > record from Direct outs. > Manual says "set fader to 0, master faders to 0, press > pfl and adjust gain to just reaching 0db".
Not bad advice. Of course with an analog board, 0 dB is not a brick wall and going over a few dB can be managable.
How's the mixing?
> When I do this using the D112 on the kick drum the pfl > meter goes all the way up with the gain down all the > way. It appears that the pfl is post-eq and I have the eq > s set flat. What should I do or is this to be expected on > a kick drum?
If you're not overdriving the mic acoustically, there are such things as passive mic attenuators that let you reduce the signal to the console input. A/T and Shure have variable (3 switch positions) models for about $50 and Proco has fixed attenuators for around $20.
> > Just starting to use my old equipment again. > > old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic > > Will be using for live sound but right now trying to > > record from Direct outs. > > Manual says "set fader to 0, master faders to 0, press > > pfl and adjust gain to just reaching 0db".
> Not bad advice. Of course with an analog board, 0 dB is not a brick wall and > going over a few dB can be managable.
> How's the mixing?
> > When I do this using the D112 on the kick drum the pfl > > meter goes all the way up with the gain down all the > > way. It appears that the pfl is post-eq and I have the eq > > s set flat. What should I do or is this to be expected on > > a kick drum?
> If you're not overdriving the mic acoustically, there are such things as > passive mic attenuators that let you reduce the signal to the console input. > A/T and Shure have variable (3 switch positions) models for about $50 and > Proco has fixed attenuators for around $20.
In a pinch, using a XLR-F to TRS cable or adapter and running the mic into the line input will solve the padding issue.
Scott Dorsey wrote: > geoff <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote: >> mkm wrote: >>> Kick has a front head with a hole. Mic is just inside the hole. >> .... but not with the front of the mic direction at the hole, or you'll get >> a blast of wind whacking your diaphram .
> Which was a popular sound for a while... > --scott
Scott Dorsey wrote: > geoff <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote: >> mkm wrote:
>>> Kick has a front head with a hole. Mic is just inside the hole.
>> .... but not with the front of the mic direction at the hole, or >> you'll get a blast of wind whacking your diaphram .
> Which was a popular sound for a while... > --scott
I remember repairing a C4000B that had a perfect impression of the perforated backplate embedded into the diaphram, from that particular type of misadventure.
>> old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic
>> Will be using for live sound but right now trying to >> record from Direct outs.
>> Manual says "set fader to 0, master faders to 0, press >> pfl and adjust gain to just reaching 0db".
>Not bad advice. Of course with an analog board, 0 dB is not a brick wall and >going over a few dB can be managable.
>How's the mixing?
>> When I do this using the D112 on the kick drum the pfl >> meter goes all the way up with the gain down all the >> way. It appears that the pfl is post-eq and I have the eq >> s set flat. What should I do or is this to be expected on >> a kick drum?
>If you're not overdriving the mic acoustically, there are such things as >passive mic attenuators that let you reduce the signal to the console input. >A/T and Shure have variable (3 switch positions) models for about $50 and >Proco has fixed attenuators for around $20.
It's a kick drum, he's obviously overdriving the mic!
mkm wrote: > Just starting to use my old equipment again.
> old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic
> Will be using for live sound but right now trying to record from Direct > outs.
> Manual says "set fader to 0, master faders to 0, press pfl and adjust > gain to just reaching 0db".
> When I do this using the D112 on the kick drum the pfl meter goes all > the way up with the gain down all the way. It appears that the pfl is > post-eq and I have the eq s set flat.What should I do or is this to be > expected on a kick drum?
> When I last used the board for my band about 11 years ago we had a sound > man and he did not indicate there was any problem. He did have gates on > all the drum mics via the channel inserts.
> On this board the mic inputs are all XLRs and the line inputs are TRS. > To use the line inputs the line select switch needs to be engaged which > disengages the xLR inputs and reduces the gain range by 20db according > to the manual.
First of all, I suggest always setting input gain before turning up the channel fader.
Second, I wouldn't worry too much about the meter maxing out if the signal is clean & has no apparent distortion. I used to own one of these consoles, & you can light up the clip light without any audible distortion. The board has plenty of headroom.
If you need a pad, you can buy or build an inline pad that can be plugged in between the mic cable & console. I'm pretty sure that Shure sells them for about $25.
Others here have discussed mic placement & I agree with most. One thing I disagree with is that the D112 will be damaged by placing it at the hole where there is the most air movement. The D112 can take that kind of abuse. Many other mics cannot.
> I disagree with is that the D112 will be damaged by placing it at the > hole where there is the most air movement. The D112 can take that kind of > abuse. Many other mics cannot.
> -Denny
Once I heard a D6 the d112 was sold I have trashed two m88's using them on kick but they do have a great low mid woof still IMO the D\aduix d6 is THE kick mic of choice I also like the re20 but it is too much a pita to deal with due to its size
Denny I will be getting the promoter to comp me monday night at the resort would be a great time to empty a flask of good kentucky sour mash :-) George George
>> I disagree with is that the D112 will be damaged by placing it at the >> hole where there is the most air movement. The D112 can take that kind of >> abuse. Many other mics cannot.
>> -Denny
> Once I heard a D6 the d112 was sold > I have trashed two m88's using them on kick > but they do have a great low mid woof > still IMO the D\aduix d6 is THE kick mic of choice > I also like the re20 but it is too much a pita to deal with due to its size
I had an M88 die on me too. It sounded like I blew the subs when it went. NASTY sound. I like the sound of the M88, but it can't take abuse.
I've always preferred the 421 on kick. But, I'm happy with a D6, Beta 52, and a number of others. I've never liked the D112 very much.
> I have trashed two m88's using them on kick > > I also like the re20 but it is too much a pita to deal with due to its > > size
I had a house gig for a number of years where 88s were part of the mic inventory. I marked one as K mic, as that application would render them less than optimum for vocals. RE20 has always been a favorite and I used that on kick when I did not have a more suitable application for it. Such as tenor. I agree about the cumbersome size. Always wished for an equivalent mic that wasn't so bulky. Loved it on guitar cabs. Floor tom, too. In fact, I'd be entiely happy to do a gig with just M88s, RE20s, and a couple of condensers. Those mics cost more with good reason. Outstanding all purpose mics.
> mkm wrote: >> Just starting to use my old equipment again.
>> old Soundcraft Spirit 4 Live board, AKG D112 mic
>> Will be using for live sound but right now trying to record from Direct >> outs.
>> Manual says "set fader to 0, master faders to 0, press pfl and adjust >> gain to just reaching 0db".
>> When I do this using the D112 on the kick drum the pfl meter goes all >> the way up with the gain down all the way. It appears that the pfl is >> post-eq and I have the eq s set flat.What should I do or is this to be >> expected on a kick drum?
>> When I last used the board for my band about 11 years ago we had a sound >> man and he did not indicate there was any problem. He did have gates on >> all the drum mics via the channel inserts.
>> On this board the mic inputs are all XLRs and the line inputs are TRS. To >> use the line inputs the line select switch needs to be engaged which >> disengages the xLR inputs and reduces the gain range by 20db according to >> the manual.
> First of all, I suggest always setting input gain before turning up the > channel fader.
> Second, I wouldn't worry too much about the meter maxing out if the signal > is clean & has no apparent distortion. I used to own one of these > consoles, & you can light up the clip light without any audible > distortion. The board has plenty of headroom.
> If you need a pad, you can buy or build an inline pad that can be plugged > in between the mic cable & console. I'm pretty sure that Shure sells them > for about $25.
> Others here have discussed mic placement & I agree with most. One thing I > disagree with is that the D112 will be damaged by placing it at the hole > where there is the most air movement. The D112 can take that kind of > abuse. Many other mics cannot.
Denny Strauser wrote: > George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: >>> I disagree with is that the D112 will be damaged by placing it at the >>> hole where there is the most air movement. The D112 can take that >>> kind of abuse. Many other mics cannot.
>>> -Denny
>> Once I heard a D6 the d112 was sold >> I have trashed two m88's using them on kick >> but they do have a great low mid woof >> still IMO the D\aduix d6 is THE kick mic of choice >> I also like the re20 but it is too much a pita to deal with due to its >> size
> I had an M88 die on me too. It sounded like I blew the subs when it > went. NASTY sound. I like the sound of the M88, but it can't take abuse.
> I've always preferred the 421 on kick. But, I'm happy with a D6, Beta > 52, and a number of others. I've never liked the D112 very much.
> -Denny
On a closed kik ( it suffers wind noise not at all ) try a Behringer ECM800. The MLX SP1 works good, too. Neither like being in the line of fire - off to the side.
In article <hctdln$6l...@aioe.org>, McSteve <mcsteve13...@verizon.net> wrote:
>I had a house gig for a number of years where 88s were part of the mic >inventory. I marked one as K mic, as that application would render >them less than optimum for vocals.
They are definite favorites. Is the TG version any different?
>RE20 has always been a favorite and I used that on kick when I did >not have a more suitable application for it. Such as tenor. I agree about >the cumbersome size. Always wished for an equivalent mic that wasn't so >bulky. Loved it on guitar cabs. Floor tom, too. In fact, I'd be entiely >happy >to do a gig with just M88s, RE20s, and a couple of condensers. Those mics >cost more with good reason. Outstanding all purpose mics.
RE-11 and RE-16 give you a lot of what you get from the RE-20 in a smaller package. Pattern isn't as tight but they have the variable-D thing which can be a lifesaver.
The 664 is actually not bad in that regard, and I still pull them out of the closet now and then. Gain before feedback isn't as good as the RE-20 but it's still a hell of a lot better than an SM-57. It has the variable-D mechanics, it looks cool, and they still sell very cheaply. --scott
-- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
> "mkm" wrote: >> Kick has a front head with a hole. Mic is just inside the hole.
> Simple enough. Just put the mic *outside* the hole. > It's a common mistake for inexperienced people to > look to the console for a solution in situations like this. > Mic position can fix a myriad of issues. I see too many > BEs reach for the EQ on the strip and do radical cut/boost > when all they had to do was move the frickin mic.
Or put it further in the drum, like another six inches.
I like the sound better with the mic outside the hole but it usually gets knocked out of place by one of the front line players.
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