Sean O'Hara wrote: > In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared: > > In article <mike-8747B7.00493507112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > > Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking > >> for ID, for whatever reason.
> > My actual credit card has my face on it.
> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think > the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
Uh, YES?
Anyway, how does he know they didn't steal the card from their mom? People do. And this is where they should be stopped.
I heard of some guy - British? - who chose to have his own credit record altered to say "You have to take his fingerprints." He carries a fingerprint kit too, just so he can take his own prints and hand them over at checkouts. I don't recall whether this has "paid off", so to speak.
Robert Carnegie wrote: > Sean O'Hara wrote: >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared: >>> In article <mike-8747B7.00493507112...@news.eternal-september.org>, >>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> wrote:
>>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking >>>> for ID, for whatever reason. >>> My actual credit card has my face on it. >> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think >> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
> Uh, YES?
> Anyway, how does he know they didn't steal the card from their mom? > People do. And this is where they should be stopped.
> I heard of some guy - British? - who chose to have his own credit > record altered to say "You have to take his fingerprints." He carries > a fingerprint kit too, just so he can take his own prints and hand > them over at checkouts. I don't recall whether this has "paid off", > so to speak.
And how exactly does he expect the _store_ to compare fingerprints?
-- 7 Years - 2265 Experiments - 10 tons of explosives - 705 Myths Myths - Will - Fall!
> Robert Carnegie wrote: >> Sean O'Hara wrote: >>> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared: >>>> In article <mike-8747B7.00493507112...@news.eternal-september.org>, >>>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> wrote:
>>>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking >>>>> for ID, for whatever reason. >>>> My actual credit card has my face on it. >>> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think >>> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
>> Uh, YES?
>> Anyway, how does he know they didn't steal the card from their mom? >> People do. And this is where they should be stopped.
>> I heard of some guy - British? - who chose to have his own credit >> record altered to say "You have to take his fingerprints." He carries >> a fingerprint kit too, just so he can take his own prints and hand >> them over at checkouts. I don't recall whether this has "paid off", >> so to speak.
> And how exactly does he expect the _store_ to compare fingerprints?
He doesn't. He expects the card thief to refuse to provide the fingerprints. Alternatively, if the card thief _does_ provide the prints, once there's a notification of the theft the cops now have the thief's prints.
J. J. O'Shea wrote: > On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 03:24:32 -0500, Dimensional Traveler wrote > (in article <4af6803d$0$1598$742ec...@news.sonic.net>):
> > Robert Carnegie wrote: > >> Sean O'Hara wrote: > >>> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared: > >>>> In article <mike-8747B7.00493507112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > >>>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >>>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking > >>>>> for ID, for whatever reason. > >>>> My actual credit card has my face on it. > >>> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think > >>> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
> >> Uh, YES?
> >> Anyway, how does he know they didn't steal the card from their mom? > >> People do. And this is where they should be stopped.
> >> I heard of some guy - British? - who chose to have his own credit > >> record altered to say "You have to take his fingerprints." He carries > >> a fingerprint kit too, just so he can take his own prints and hand > >> them over at checkouts. I don't recall whether this has "paid off", > >> so to speak.
> > And how exactly does he expect the _store_ to compare fingerprints?
> He doesn't. He expects the card thief to refuse to provide the fingerprints. > Alternatively, if the card thief _does_ provide the prints, once there's a > notification of the theft the cops now have the thief's prints.
If it's not the right guy, he doesn't have his own fingerprint kit. Until recently I suppose you could use the ink source from many modern cash registers that print a receipt, but nowadays it's probably a no- ink thermal printer. But I suppose you can just have them press their fingers on the store window, leave prints that way; put a Post-It note next to that to say don't clean the window for a while...
The police may have the same fingerprints in a file with the print owner's address. Otherwise it isn't necessarily helpful.
In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Robert Carnegie declared:
> Sean O'Hara wrote: >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared: >>> In article <mike-8747B7.00493507112...@news.eternal-september.org>, >>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> wrote:
>>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking >>>> for ID, for whatever reason. >>> My actual credit card has my face on it. >> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think >> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
> Uh, YES?
Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches the card.
> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Robert Carnegie > declared: > > Sean O'Hara wrote: > >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared: > >>> In article <mike-8747B7.00493507112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > >>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking > >>>> for ID, for whatever reason. > >>> My actual credit card has my face on it. > >> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think > >> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
> > Uh, YES?
> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches > the card.
At the places I shop, the card terminals always say "hand the card to the cashier" after I do my side of things.
Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never asked to see it.
-- Mike Ash Radio Free Earth Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Sean O'Hara wrote: > In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Robert Carnegie > declared: > > Sean O'Hara wrote: > >> In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared: > >>> In article <mike-8747B7.00493507112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > >>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >>>> My understanding is that the card agreement actually *forbids* asking > >>>> for ID, for whatever reason. > >>> My actual credit card has my face on it. > >> So the person who steals it says, "Oh, its my mom's card." You think > >> the clerk's going to make a big deal out of it?
> > Uh, YES?
> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches > the card.
Well, I'll admit the UK now uses "chip and PIN" card function in most places - at least where I use cards. Often this does mean the card isn't out of my hands - I load it in a terminal device myself. Also any loss where the PIN was used was customer's liability, but I think they have just changed that back.
One hack is that apparently regulations require the magnetic data stripe still carries the same data, less securely. That can be copied and then used somewhere where they don't have chip cards.
In article <mike-AB9C84.13455509112...@news.eternal-september.org>, Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> writes:
>In article <7lr13bF3egad...@mid.individual.net>, Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches >> the card.
>At the places I shop, the card terminals always say "hand the card to >the cashier" after I do my side of things.
I haven't figured this one out. Gas stations around here started having people (paying inside) scan their own cards about two years back. I asked a clerk (not that they're necessarily an authority, just someone to ask) why I had to take over this task that used to be theirs, and they said that it was for my security.
But, then the machine is set up to tell you to hand them your card anyway, so where's the security?
>Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never asked to >see it.
Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption that it's not.
-- Michael F. Stemper #include <Standard_Disclaimer> Life's too important to take seriously.
> In article <mike-AB9C84.13455509112...@news.eternal-september.org>, Mike Ash > <m...@mikeash.com> writes: > >In article <7lr13bF3egad...@mid.individual.net>, Sean O'Hara > ><seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches > >> the card.
> >At the places I shop, the card terminals always say "hand the card to > >the cashier" after I do my side of things.
> I haven't figured this one out. Gas stations around here started > having people (paying inside) scan their own cards about two years > back. I asked a clerk (not that they're necessarily an authority, > just someone to ask) why I had to take over this task that used to > be theirs, and they said that it was for my security.
> But, then the machine is set up to tell you to hand them your card > anyway, so where's the security?
> >Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never asked to > >see it.
> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption > that it's not.
It strikes me as more insecure than ever. There's no way left to keep someone from using a stolen card, with this system. I don't recall being asked for a look at my card by an employee since I've had to feed it through myself, but it may have happened once or twice.
-- Erilar, biblioholic
bib-li-o-hol-ism [<Gr biblion] n. [BIBLIO + HOLISM] books, of books: habitual longing to purchase, read, store, admire, and consume books in excess.
> In article <mike-AB9C84.13455509112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> writes: >> In article <7lr13bF3egad...@mid.individual.net>, Sean O'Hara >> <seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Try it. They don't. Hell, most places the clerk never even touches >>> the card.
>> At the places I shop, the card terminals always say "hand the card to >> the cashier" after I do my side of things.
> I haven't figured this one out. Gas stations around here started > having people (paying inside) scan their own cards about two years > back. I asked a clerk (not that they're necessarily an authority, > just someone to ask) why I had to take over this task that used to > be theirs, and they said that it was for my security.
> But, then the machine is set up to tell you to hand them your card > anyway, so where's the security?
Presumably, if they're not running a charge slip, but only checking ID, then there's no paper record for them to steal.
>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never asked to >> see it.
> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption > that it's not.
If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote: >It strikes me as more insecure than ever. There's no way left to keep >someone from using a stolen card, with this system.
That's controlled by the central computers - not handing your card to clerk increases security because it avoids the risk of having your numbers stolen by the clerk. (A large source of credit card fraud.)
Sean O'Hara wrote: > In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Kurt Busiek declared: >> On 2009-11-10 10:18:39 -0800, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael >> Stemper) said:
>>> In article <mike-AB9C84.13455509112...@news.eternal-september.org>, >>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> writes:
>>>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never >>>> asked to >>>> see it.
>>> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption >>> that it's not.
>> If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my >> card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
> He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
Who does that anymore?
-- 7 Years - 2265 Experiments - 10 tons of explosives - 705 Myths Myths - Will - Fall!
Dimensional Traveler <dtra...@sonic.net> wrote: >Sean O'Hara wrote: >> He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
>Who does that anymore?
I do. When I'm also going to put a refill on coffee, or a Sunday newspaper, on the same purchase. Or when I fall outside the time limits noted on the sticker on the pump. Or other reasons. (Sometimes I'd -rather- have paid at the pump, but it's not always possible.)
Dave -- \/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK> http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
> Sean O'Hara wrote: > > In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Kurt Busiek declared: > >> On 2009-11-10 10:18:39 -0800, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael > >> Stemper) said:
> >>> In article <mike-AB9C84.13455509112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > >>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> writes:
> >>>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never > >>>> asked to > >>>> see it.
> >>> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption > >>> that it's not.
> >> If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my > >> card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
> > He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
> Who does that anymore?
I do. I don't like to stick my card in an anonymous machine, for one thing. And on long trips I need to go inside for another reason as well.
-- Erilar, biblioholic
bib-li-o-hol-ism [<Gr biblion] n. [BIBLIO + HOLISM] books, of books: habitual longing to purchase, read, store, admire, and consume books in excess.
> > Sean O'Hara wrote: > > > In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Kurt Busiek declared: > > >> On 2009-11-10 10:18:39 -0800, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael > > >> Stemper) said:
> > >>> In article <mike-AB9C84.13455509112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > > >>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> writes:
> > >>>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never > > >>>> asked to > > >>>> see it.
> > >>> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the assumption > > >>> that it's not.
> > >> If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my > > >> card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
> > > He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
> > Who does that anymore?
> I do. I don't like to stick my card in an anonymous machine, for one > thing. And on long trips I need to go inside for another reason as well.
And the machine inside is less anonymous in what way?
David DeLaney wrote: > Dimensional Traveler <dtra...@sonic.net> wrote: >> Sean O'Hara wrote: >>> He's talking about going inside to pay for gas. >> Who does that anymore?
> I do. When I'm also going to put a refill on coffee, or a Sunday newspaper, > on the same purchase. Or when I fall outside the time limits noted on the > sticker on the pump. Or other reasons. (Sometimes I'd -rather- have paid at > the pump, but it's not always possible.)
I'm reminded of a gas station I stopped into in a section of Kansas City that might not have been the best part of town (I was new in town) on a Sunday afternoon, only to find that the "24hr" part of the station's sign apparently meant locking the doors and barring the windows but leaving the credit-card-accepting self-serve pumps running. Since I was on fumes, I crossed my fingers and filled up. No problems. Not sure what I would have done if there *had* been....
I'm also reminded of a story from the New Orleans evacuation before Katrina. A reporter related coming across a family stranded in a "closed" gas station. The station owners had left the pumps running (civic service, or carelessness?), but the family only had cash -- no credit cards. The reporter got them both fill-ups on his card (don't recall if he accepted repayment) and both parties took off for drier pastures.
Then there's places like the Costco or Sam's Club gas stations (nothing but pumps and a rain shelter), which don't take anything except debit cards (and maybe AmEx?) -- no cash, no Visa/Master/whatever. And the attendant is only there to handle problems that crop up.
On Nov 13, 12:05 pm, David McMillan <spamt...@skyefire.org> wrote:
> Then there's places like the Costco or Sam's Club gas stations (nothing > but pumps and a rain shelter), which don't take anything except debit > cards (and maybe AmEx?) -- no cash, no Visa/Master/whatever. And the > attendant is only there to handle problems that crop up.
The Sam's Club here takes Visa credit cards. You must also have a membership card. The CostCo is restrictive as you list.
> On Nov 13, 12:05 pm, David McMillan <spamt...@skyefire.org> wrote:
> > Then there's places like the Costco or Sam's Club gas stations (nothing > > but pumps and a rain shelter), which don't take anything except debit > > cards (and maybe AmEx?) -- no cash, no Visa/Master/whatever. And the > > attendant is only there to handle problems that crop up.
> The Sam's Club here takes Visa credit cards. You must also have a > membership card. The CostCo is restrictive as you list.
In some countries (Japan?) there are 'ghost' stations, which are entirely unmanned. I don't know if that would fly in the US, from a safety and liability standpoint.
Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Nov 13, 1:29 pm, trag <t...@io.com> wrote: >> On Nov 13, 12:05 pm, David McMillan <spamt...@skyefire.org> wrote:
>> > Then there's places like the Costco or Sam's Club gas >stations (nothing >> > but pumps and a rain shelter), which don't take anything except debit >> > cards (and maybe AmEx?) -- no cash, no Visa/Master/whatever. And the >> > attendant is only there to handle problems that crop up.
>> The Sam's Club here takes Visa credit cards. You must also have a >> membership card. The CostCo is restrictive as you list.
>In some countries (Japan?) there are 'ghost' stations, which are >entirely unmanned. I don't know if that would fly in the US, from a >safety and liability standpoint.
>pt
There's (at least) one in Charleston SC
Ted -- ------ columbiaclosings.com What's not in Columbia anymore..
In article <c971a075-110e-4d2c-a600-b59b55e15...@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> wrote: >In some countries (Japan?) there are 'ghost' [gas] stations, which are >entirely unmanned. I don't know if that would fly in the US, from a >safety and liability standpoint.
Plenty of them out in farm country.
-GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft woll...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
>>In some countries (Japan?) there are 'ghost' stations, which are >>entirely unmanned. I don't know if that would fly in the US, from a >>safety and liability standpoint.
>>pt
>There's (at least) one in Charleston SC
There's one about a mile or so from me (near Seattle) as the crow flies.
::: In some countries (Japan?) there are 'ghost' stations, which are ::: entirely unmanned. I don't know if that would fly in the US, from a ::: safety and liability standpoint.
:: There's (at least) one in Charleston SC
: There's one about a mile or so from me (near Seattle) as the crow : flies.
Huh. Googling aout a bit is unrewarding (at least to my level of rudimentary google-fu). There's "ifuelisave.com", for which google finds several news articles and writeups; a chain of unmanned gas stations. But the interest semed to peak somewhere in 2004 or 2006, and I don't see much mention of it recently. The ifuelisave.com site itself seems pretty much a remnant (the "locate one" page is empty, demo videos all have broken links, etc, etc.
I haven't encountered any totally unmanned (uncrewed?) gas stations my own self, though I'd expect it'd be workable, and the above seems to establish that the liability issue can be handled (unless that's why they failed...).
Certainly in my *use* of them, they might just as *well* have been totally uncrewed. I hadn't so much as seen the attendant in any of them for the two years before last week, and last week I just needed to use a restroom and buy a soder, breaking the streak... and I don't really expect to see an attendant for the *next* two years or more, in foreseeable circumstances.
> > > Sean O'Hara wrote: > > > > In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Kurt Busiek > > > > declared: > > > >> On 2009-11-10 10:18:39 -0800, mstem...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael > > > >> Stemper) said:
> > > >>> In article <mike-AB9C84.13455509112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > > > >>> Mike Ash <m...@mikeash.com> writes:
> > > >>>> Of course, I just put the card back in my pocket. They've never > > > >>>> asked to > > > >>>> see it.
> > > >>> Well, that's what I do, too, but the system's set up on the > > > >>> assumption > > > >>> that it's not.
> > > >> If any of the self-serve gas pumps I've used have told me to show my > > > >> card to the attendant, I haven't noticed it.
> > > > He's talking about going inside to pay for gas.
> > > Who does that anymore?
> > I do. I don't like to stick my card in an anonymous machine, for one > > thing. And on long trips I need to go inside for another reason as well.
> And the machine inside is less anonymous in what way?
There's a live person to visit with, for one thing. And there are other reasons for going inside.
-- Erilar, biblioholic
bib-li-o-hol-ism [<Gr biblion] n. [BIBLIO + HOLISM] books, of books: habitual longing to purchase, read, store, admire, and consume books in excess.
