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OT: Ron Paul - The Revolution: A Manifesto, pp 12-13.
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Howard Duck  
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 More options Aug 27, 8:31 am
Newsgroups: rec.arts.mystery
From: Howard Duck <hbd...@geusnet.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:31:32 -0500
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 8:31 am
Subject: OT: Ron Paul - The Revolution: A Manifesto, pp 12-13.

Some Americans may be familiar with the admonition of John Quincy
Adams that America does not go abroad in search of monsters to
destroy. But his sentiments extended well beyond this oft-cited maxim.
First, Adams considered what could be said in America's defense if
anyone were ever to wonder what she had done for the world:

[I]f the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world ... should
find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the
benefit of mankind? Let our answer be this: America, with the same
voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to
mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only
lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations,
since her admission among them, has invariably, though often
fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of
equal freedom, of generous reciprocity. She has uniformly spoken among
them, though often to heedless, and often to disdainful ears, the
language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights; she
has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single
exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting
and maintaining her own; she has abstained from interference in the
concerns of others, even when the conflict has been for principles to
which she clings as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.

Adams then described the foreign policy of the American republic:

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be
unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.
But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the
well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the
champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general
cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of
her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners
than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she
would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars
of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition,
which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The
fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty
to force.... She might become the dictatress of the world. She would
be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....

This wasn't "isolationism." It was a beautiful and elegant statement
of common sense, and of principles that at one time were taken for
granted by nearly everyone.


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Discussion subject changed to "Ron Paul - The Revolution: A Manifesto, pp 12-13." by Joan in GB-W
Joan in GB-W  
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 More options Aug 27, 11:38 am
Newsgroups: rec.arts.mystery
From: "Joan in GB-W" <jjkr...@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:38:52 -0500
Local: Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:38 am
Subject: Re: Ron Paul - The Revolution: A Manifesto, pp 12-13.

"Howard Duck" <hbd...@geusnet.com> wrote in message

news:1119b4lir67cegn858563uolens0btr0qi@4ax.com...

> Some Americans may be familiar with the admonition of John Quincy
> Adams that America does not go abroad in search of monsters to
> destroy. But his sentiments extended well beyond this oft-cited maxim.
> First, Adams considered what could be said in America's defense if
> anyone were ever to wonder what she had done for the world:

That was then (he served 1798 to 1801) and this is now.  Adams could not
possibly have conceived in all of his wildest dreams the changes  that would
occur between his years and ours.  I suspect as brilliant a man as Adams
was, had he lived 200 years would have constantly adjusted his thinking to
align with the times and technology.  To search for monsters in his day
would have taken a great deal of time.  How far was Europe by boat?  South
America, Asia or Africa?  Today those countries are only hours away, as are
the powerful bombs owned by some of them.

Joan


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Howard Duck  
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 More options Aug 28, 8:17 am
Newsgroups: rec.arts.mystery
From: Howard Duck <hbd...@geusnet.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:17:21 -0500
Local: Thurs, Aug 28 2008 8:17 am
Subject: Re: Ron Paul - The Revolution: A Manifesto, pp 12-13.
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:38:52 -0500, "Joan in GB-W" <jjkr...@aol.com>
wrote:

Ron Paul's answer to your contention is as follows:

It is easy to dismiss the noninterventionist view as the quaint
aspiration of men who lived in a less complicated world, but it's not
so easy to demonstrate how our current policies serve any national
interest at all. Perhaps an honest examination of the history of
American interventionism in the twentieth century, from Korea to
Vietnam to Kosovo to the Middle East, would reveal that the Founding
Fathers foresaw more than we think.
--
Howard


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Francis A. Miniter  
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 More options Aug 29, 8:19 am
Newsgroups: rec.arts.mystery
From: "Francis A. Miniter" <famini...@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:19:49 -0400
Local: Fri, Aug 29 2008 8:19 am
Subject: Re: Ron Paul - The Revolution: A Manifesto, pp 12-13.

Hi Joan,

That was John Adams who was President from 1797 to 1801.
John Quincy Adams, his son, was President from 1825 to 1829.

My biggest problem with Howard's attempt to make the point
is that Quincy was a one person and there is nothing to say
that this particular president was correct, assuming that
the quote means what it says.  But looking at the larger
context of the quote - Adams' address as Secretary of State
to the U.S. House of Representatives. (1821-07-04) see
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams - what he is
saying is that the US should not be involved in foreign wars
of liberation.  What he was probably thinking about were the
numerous wars in South America at the time where Bolivar and
others were struggling for independence from Spain at the
time.  That indeed would have been a mistake.

But I do not believe that Quincy would have hesitated at
getting involved with WWI or WWII when we did.  Nor do I
know of any quote from him criticizing the US involvement in
the Barbary Wars.

Francis A. Miniter


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