Hi Chris
I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
write the message?
Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
there is just too much info. Having said that, I think both options
would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
by one person (leader problem). It may be even better just to leave
the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
Alex
2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> Hi Chris
> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> write the message?
I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've since checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't embed a Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> there is just too much info.
Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to encourage the group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I agree that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used as a to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here - how to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make updates without a leader/ moderator
Having said that, I think both options
> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
> by one person (leader problem).
Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator required).
It may be even better just to leave
> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
OK. However I am worried that without someone taking responsibility for maintenance it will become less and less easy to find up to date info. If we are going this way we need to be real about this and the best way to really face this is to ask who will maintain it on a ?weekly? basis - you or me?
> > ________________________________
> > View photos of singles in your area! Looking for a date?
_________________________________________________________________
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Okay, I went to the site per your link and clicked on "Activity Interests In Armidale NSW New England". There is only one topic there, so I thought I would add another. But there is no way to do this that I can see without actually answering my own post! This is what I mean when I say you are not making it easy. This should have been a simple process. Is this a forum? If so why could I not add a new post to the same topic? You need to make it clear and easy to understand, like a link saying "Forums". This is where people post a topic. "Activity Interests In Armidale NSW" or similar should be a forum, this is where people go to post information on their group, on activities, to ask questions etc. Am I missing something here? I am able to find my way around most other sites without a problem. If this site is not meant for this sort of community discussions, then what it it for? What are you trying to do? Keith. Options<http://groups.google.com.au/group/neighbourhoodthatworks/browse_threa...>
2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>
> -- > “I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only > the essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to > teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.” Henry > David Thoreau. > http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:01:46 +1100
Subject: Re: The Cooperator
From: historicaltrek...@gmail.com
To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
Okay, I went to the site per your link and clicked on "Activity Interests In Armidale NSW New England". There is only one topic there, so I thought I would add another. But there is no way to do this that I can see without actually answering my own post!
If you want to add to that post, hit reply - that will add any comments you want to make about that earlier post. I think that is pretty standard - it is what the experts at Google designed it to do.
This is what I mean when I say you are not making it easy. This should have been a simple process.
If you are finding it difficult I don't know what to do for you.
Is this a forum?
Yes
If so why could I not add a new post to the same topic?
If you want to add a new post to the same topic, hit "new post" enter the subject you want in the email subject line and write what you want to post into the body.
You need to make it clear and easy to understand, like a link saying "Forums".
If I am correct, you got to the forum by clicking on the link "Talking Point" on the NTW home page. This link is under the instruction "To talk to the group ..." and that is where it took you ... to a place where you can talk to the group, either by replying to an existing conversation or by creating a new post. I'm not sure how you got lost.
This is where people post a topic.
Yes that's right
"Activity Interests In Armidale NSW" or similar should be a forum,
You could have one if you want. You will recall that I sent you info about how you could do this by following our example using free web technologies.
this is where people go to post information on their group, on activities, to ask questions etc.
Exactly. We created a local group for Hope Street Blaxland and invited you to follow its development as an example.
Am I missing something here? I am able to find my way around most other sites without a problem.
I think so.
If this site is not meant for this sort of community discussions, then what it it for? What are you trying to do?
I think the problem is that in response to your original Community Builders request for help I invited you in to a process of developing (or at least observing the attempt to develop) a solution. I did not realise you were looking for a ready made solution, thinking you might be interested in finding a solution. My emails explained this. I also gave a detailed reply which you only responded to in a cursory way.
Since then you have cherry picked bits and pieces of info from several different development ideas and have tried to piggy back on them to promote your interests without engaging with the development of the solution or setting up your own.
Using Hope Street Blaxland we have managed to get things to a stage that people here are finding more and more useful. We should be ready to pass on a ready made solution to people in other locations before the end of the year. Meanwhile, if you are going to make sense of what we are doing, you will need to pick up the threads.
Chris
Keith.
Options
2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>
Hi Alex - see below
-- “I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.” Henry David Thoreau.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com
_________________________________________________________________
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-- “I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.” Henry David Thoreau. http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com -- “I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.” Henry David Thoreau. http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com
>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> Hi Chris
>> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
>> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
>> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
>> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
>> write the message?
> I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've since
> checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't embed a
> Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
>> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
>> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
>> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
>> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
>> there is just too much info.
> Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to encourage the
> group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
> organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I agree
> that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
> neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used as a
> to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here - how
> to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make updates
> without a leader/ moderator
> Having said that, I think both options
>> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
>> by one person (leader problem).
> Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
> version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator required).
Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
> It may be even better just to leave
>> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
>> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
>> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
>> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
>> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
>> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
> OK. However I am worried that without someone taking responsibility for
> maintenance it will become less and less easy to find up to date info. If we
> are going this way we need to be real about this and the best way to really
> face this is to ask who will maintain it on a ?weekly? basis - you or me?
I think it is only safe to assume that no one will maintain it. While
you and I are likely to to it, especially if we start seeing it used,
we are not really just worried about us. I agree that the message
additions will get out of date and will stack up but at least it is
simple and purely self-help and if it gets out of control and is in
use someone will see and push for the deletion of outdated messages -
or not. This isn't ideal but I think it is the best we can do right
now. Perhaps we can simply mention in the set-up instructions that
this could get messy and that deleting outdated messages on a monthly
basis is advised. You were doing this and more with the pbworks
set-up. At least here they can post the messages themselves.
Alex
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> Hi Chris see below.
> Alex
> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> > Hi Alex - see below
> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >> Hi Chris
> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> >> write the message?
> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've since
> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't embed a
> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> OK
> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >> there is just too much info.
> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to encourage the
> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I agree
> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used as a
> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here - how
> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make updates
> > without a leader/ moderator
> > Having said that, I think both options
> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
> >> by one person (leader problem).
> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator required).
> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy (set up a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to do the pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but only the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in principle, pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not. That said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in reality equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered with.
> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing that, all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had principle on its side.
> > It may be even better just to leave
> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods, someone who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have control).
I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who signs in to delete messages. We could do it this way if we put ALL the stuff that needs to be stable on the html page (no instructions in the gg welcome message or in priority posts). This would mean that an individual would only have to 'control' the initial set up - from then on, everyone is equal.
> > OK. However I am worried that without someone taking responsibility for
> > maintenance it will become less and less easy to find up to date info. If we
> > are going this way we need to be real about this and the best way to really
> > face this is to ask who will maintain it on a ?weekly? basis - you or me?
> I think it is only safe to assume that no one will maintain it.
Or everyone, if the idea above can be done.
While
> you and I are likely to to it, especially if we start seeing it used,
> we are not really just worried about us. I agree that the message
> additions will get out of date and will stack up but at least it is
> simple and purely self-help and if it gets out of control and is in
> use someone will see and push for the deletion of outdated messages -
This is the problem - you say 'push for', but from a dynamics perspective it is more accurate to say 'apply for' or 'ask the controller'.
> or not. This isn't ideal but I think it is the best we can do right
> now. Perhaps we can simply mention in the set-up instructions that
> this could get messy and that deleting outdated messages on a monthly
> basis is advised. You were doing this and more with the pbworks
> set-up. At least here they can post the messages themselves.
Yes I was - but at least in pbworks anyone could do it. Perhaps we can achieve the same with gg if we do it the way I suggest above.
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > View photos of singles in your area! Looking for a date?
_________________________________________________________________
Looking to move this spring? With all the lastest places, searching has never been easier. Look now!
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>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> Hi Chris see below.
>> Alex
>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> > Hi Alex - see below
>> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
>> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> >> Hi Chris
>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
>> >> write the message?
>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've
>> > since
>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
>> > embed a
>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
>> OK
>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
>> >> there is just too much info.
>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
>> > encourage the
>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I
>> > agree
>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used
>> > as a
>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here -
>> > how
>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
>> > updates
>> > without a leader/ moderator
>> > Having said that, I think both options
>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
>> >> by one person (leader problem).
>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
>> > required).
>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy (set up
> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to do the
> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but only
> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in principle,
> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not. That
> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in reality
> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered with.
I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
The point I made that started this was when I said:
"Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
there is just too much info."
I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
> As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing that,
> all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had principle
> on its side.
OK
>> > It may be even better just to leave
>> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
>> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
>> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
>> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
>> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
>> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
> When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods, someone
> who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have control).
> I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who signs
> in to delete messages.
The only way I can see to do this is if the owner nomiates new sign in
members as owners in the manage members section. There is no automatic
option for this. Someone who is an owner always has to do it for
someone who isn't - than they can delete stuff.
>We could do it this way if we put ALL the stuff that
> needs to be stable on the html page (no instructions in the gg welcome
> message or in priority posts).
I'm not sure how we could avoid using the priority posts - they seem
pretty important to the structure of the space. How will people know
where to go to see what's on or to add an an activity or to cooperate?
>This would mean that an individual would only
> have to 'control' the initial set up - from then on, everyone is equal.
That's what we want but it's not easy to see how to achieve it. The
best I can think of right now is to use gg and leave the instructions
and priority posts there and to encourage the original owner to
nominate contributing members as owners so they can delete their own
messages when need be. It may not be ideal but what choice do we have?
The only alternative I can see is that we use gg as the starting point
and pbworks is the workspace that is linked to from the two priority
posts. New comers could go to this link with one click from the
priority post and see what's on. If they want to add to it they would
then need to sign up/in again. But once they signed in they could add
and delete. I don't think we could use short lists and hyperlinks to
more info though because this would be asking too much tech know how
and we don't want someone to have to manage it. The person setting up
the space would also have to set up gg and pb works and create links
too pbworks from within gg and links back to gg from pb works - so
it's pretty complicated. In fact it's probably too complicated. So
that just leaves gg, priority posts and hitting reply to add an
activity. The only people who can delete are those with owner
permission which has to be given by an owner. At least anyone can add
an activity and people can pass on owner permission as trust spreads -
it may be a good thing.
>> > OK. However I am worried that without someone taking responsibility for
>> > maintenance it will become less and less easy to find up to date info.
>> > If we
>> > are going this way we need to be real about this and the best way to
>> > really
>> > face this is to ask who will maintain it on a ?weekly? basis - you or
>> > me?
>> I think it is only safe to assume that no one will maintain it.
> Or everyone, if the idea above can be done.
Owner permission can be passed on expedentially. That is as there are
more owners there are more people who can pass on ownership.
> While
>> you and I are likely to to it, especially if we start seeing it used,
>> we are not really just worried about us. I agree that the message
>> additions will get out of date and will stack up but at least it is
>> simple and purely self-help and if it gets out of control and is in
>> use someone will see and push for the deletion of outdated messages -
> This is the problem - you say 'push for', but from a dynamics perspective it
> is more accurate to say 'apply for' or 'ask the controller'.
True - but ownership can grow and we can recommend it does. Anyone can
add an activity and 99.9% of deletion is simply dumping expired stuff
so it's not much of a leadership issue. I know that there is power
there too but in gg that power can be shared and we can recommend
that.
>> or not. This isn't ideal but I think it is the best we can do right
>> now. Perhaps we can simply mention in the set-up instructions that
>> this could get messy and that deleting outdated messages on a monthly
>> basis is advised. You were doing this and more with the pbworks
>> set-up. At least here they can post the messages themselves.
> Yes I was - but at least in pbworks anyone could do it.
Well they could add an activity name and they were invited to submit
details so we could link them. Yes if they were tech enough and
ignored our instructions they could create a link to further info
themselves ...they
...
Hi Chris,
We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
Alex
> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> Hi Alex - see below
>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>>> Hi Chris see below.
>>> Alex
>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>>> > Hi Alex - see below
>>> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>>> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
>>> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>>> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>>> >> Hi Chris
>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
>>> >> write the message?
>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've
>>> > since
>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
>>> > embed a
>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
>>> OK
>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
>>> >> there is just too much info.
>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
>>> > encourage the
>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I
>>> > agree
>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used
>>> > as a
>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here -
>>> > how
>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
>>> > updates
>>> > without a leader/ moderator
>>> > Having said that, I think both options
>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
>>> > required).
>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy (set up
>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to do the
>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but only
>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in principle,
>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not. That
>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in reality
>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered with.
> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
> The point I made that started this was when I said:
> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> there is just too much info."
> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
>>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
>>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
>>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
>> As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing that,
>> all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had principle
>> on its side.
> OK
>>> > It may be even better just to leave
>>> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
>>> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
>>> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
>>> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
>>> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
>>> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
>> When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods, someone
>> who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have control).
>> I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who signs
>> in to delete messages.
> The only way I can see to do this is if the owner nomiates new sign in
> members as owners in the manage members section. There is no automatic
> option for this. Someone who is an owner always has to do it for
> someone who isn't - than they can delete stuff.
>>We could do it this way if we put ALL the stuff that
>> needs to be stable on the html page (no instructions in the gg welcome
>> message or in priority posts).
> I'm not sure how we could avoid using the priority posts - they seem
> pretty important to the structure of the space. How will people know
> where to go to see what's on or to add an an activity or to cooperate?
>>This would mean that an individual would only
>> have to 'control' the initial set up - from then on, everyone is equal.
> That's what we want but it's not easy to see how to achieve it. The
> best I can think of right now is to use gg and leave the instructions
> and priority posts there and to encourage the original owner to
> nominate contributing members as owners so they can delete their own
> messages when need be. It may not be ideal but what choice do we have?
> The only alternative I can see is that we use gg as the starting point
> and pbworks is the workspace that is linked to from the two priority
> posts. New comers could go to this link with one click from the
> priority post and see what's on. If they want to add to it they would
> then need to sign up/in again. But once they signed in they could add
> and delete. I don't think we could use short lists and hyperlinks to
> more info though because this would be asking too much tech know how
> and we don't want someone to have to manage it. The person setting up
> the space would also have to set up gg and pb works and create links
> too pbworks from within gg and links back to gg from pb works - so
> it's pretty complicated. In fact it's probably too complicated. So
> that just leaves gg, priority posts and hitting reply to add an
> activity. The only people who can delete are those with owner
> permission which has to be given by an owner. At least anyone can add
> an activity and people can pass on owner permission as trust spreads -
> it may be a good thing.
>>> > OK. However I am worried that without someone taking responsibility for
>>> > maintenance it will become less and less easy to find up to date info.
>>> > If we
>>> > are going this way we need to be real about this and the best way to
>>> > really
>>> > face this is to ask who will maintain it on a ?weekly? basis - you or
>>> > me?
>>> I think it is only safe to assume that no one will maintain it.
>> Or everyone, if the idea above can be done.
> Owner permission can be passed on expedentially. That is as there are
> more owners there are more people who can pass on ownership.
>> While
>>> you and I are likely to to it, especially if we start seeing it used,
>>> we are not really just worried about us. I agree that the message
>>> additions will get out of date and will stack up but at least it is
>>> simple and purely self-help and if it gets out of control and is in
>>> use someone will see and push for the deletion of outdated messages -
>> This is the problem - you say 'push for', but from a dynamics perspective it
>> is more accurate to say 'apply for' or 'ask the controller'.
> True - but ownership can grow and we can recommend it does. Anyone can
> add an activity and 99.9% of deletion is simply dumping expired stuff
> so it's not much of a leadership issue. I know that there is power
> there too but in gg that power can be
> Hi Chris,
> We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
> on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> Alex
> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> Hi Chris, see below
>> alex
>> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>>> Hi Alex - see below
>>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>>>> Hi Chris see below.
>>>> Alex
>>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>>>> > Hi Alex - see below
>>>> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>>>> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
>>>> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>>>> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> Hi Chris
>>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
>>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
>>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
>>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
>>>> >> write the message?
>>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've
>>>> > since
>>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
>>>> > embed a
>>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
>>>> OK
>>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
>>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
>>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
>>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
>>>> >> there is just too much info.
>>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
>>>> > encourage the
>>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
>>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I
>>>> > agree
>>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
>>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used
>>>> > as a
>>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here -
>>>> > how
>>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
>>>> > updates
>>>> > without a leader/ moderator
>>>> > Having said that, I think both options
>>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
>>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
>>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
>>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
>>>> > required).
>>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
>>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
>>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
>>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy (set up
>>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to do the
>>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
>>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but only
>>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in principle,
>>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not. That
>>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in reality
>>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered with.
>> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
>> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
>> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
>> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
>> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
>> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
>> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
>> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
>> The point I made that started this was when I said:
>> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
>> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
>> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
>> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
>> there is just too much info."
>> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
>> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
>> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
>>>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
>>>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
>>>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
>>> As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing that,
>>> all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had principle
>>> on its side.
>> OK
>>>> > It may be even better just to leave
>>>> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
>>>> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
>>>> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
>>>> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
>>>> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
>>>> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
>>> When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods, someone
>>> who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have control).
>>> I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who signs
>>> in to delete messages.
>> The only way I can see to do this is if the owner nomiates new sign in
>> members as owners in the manage members section. There is no automatic
>> option for this. Someone who is an owner always has to do it for
>> someone who isn't - than they can delete stuff.
>>>We could do it this way if we put ALL the stuff that
>>> needs to be stable on the html page (no instructions in the gg welcome
>>> message or in priority posts).
>> I'm not sure how we could avoid using the priority posts - they seem
>> pretty important to the structure of the space. How will people know
>> where to go to see what's on or to add an an activity or to cooperate?
>>>This would mean that an individual would only
>>> have to 'control' the initial set up - from then on, everyone is equal.
>> That's what we want but it's not easy to see how to achieve it. The
>> best I can think of right now is to use gg and leave the instructions
>> and priority posts there and to encourage the original owner to
>> nominate contributing members as owners so they can delete their own
>> messages when need be. It may not be ideal but what choice do we have?
>> The only alternative I can see is that we use gg as the starting point
>> and pbworks is the workspace that is linked to from the two priority
>> posts. New comers could go to this link with one click from the
>> priority post and see what's on. If they want to add to it they would
>> then need to sign up/in again. But once they signed in they could add
>> and delete. I don't think we could use short lists and hyperlinks to
>> more info though because this would be asking too much tech know how
>> and we don't want someone to have to manage it. The person setting up
>> the space would also have to set up gg and pb works and create links
>> too pbworks from within gg and links back to gg from pb works - so
>> it's pretty complicated. In fact it's probably too complicated. So
>> that just leaves gg, priority posts and hitting reply to add an
>> activity. The only people who can delete are those with owner
>> permission which has to be given by an owner. At least anyone can add
>> an activity and people can pass on owner permission as trust spreads -
>> it may be a good thing.
>>>> > OK. However I am worried that without someone taking responsibility for
>>>> > maintenance it will become less and less easy to find up to date info.
>>>> > If we
>>>> > are going this way we need to be real about this and the best way to
>>>> > really
>>>> > face this is to ask who will maintain it on a ?weekly? basis - you or
>>>> > me?
>>>> I think it is only safe to assume that no one will maintain it.
>>> Or everyone, if the idea above can be done.
>> Owner permission can be passed on expedentially. That is as there are
>> more owners there are more people who can pass on ownership.
>>> While
>>>> you and I are likely to to it, especially if we start seeing it used,
>>>> we are not really just worried about us. I agree that the message
>>>> additions will get out of date and will stack up but at least it is
>>>> simple and purely self-help and if it gets out of control and is in
>>>> use someone will see and push for the deletion of outdated messages -
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
> Alex
> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Chris,
> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> > Alex
> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >> Hi Chris, see below
> >> alex
> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> Hi Alex - see below
> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
> >>>> Alex
> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
> >>>> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>>> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
> >>>> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>>> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>>> >> Hi Chris
> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> >>>> >> write the message?
> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've
> >>>> > since
> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
> >>>> > embed a
> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> >>>> OK
> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
> >>>> > encourage the
> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I
> >>>> > agree
> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used
> >>>> > as a
> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here -
> >>>> > how
> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
> >>>> > updates
> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
> >>>> > required).
> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy (set up
> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to do the
> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but only
> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in principle,
> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not. That
> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in reality
> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered with.
> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
> >> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
> >> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
> >> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
> >> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
> >> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
> >> The point I made that started this was when I said:
> >> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >> there is just too much info."
> >> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
> >> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
> >> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
> >>>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
> >>>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
> >>>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
> >>> As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing that,
> >>> all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had principle
> >>> on its side.
> >> OK
> >>>> > It may be even better just to leave
> >>>> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
> >>>> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
> >>>> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
> >>>> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
> >>>> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
> >>>> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
> >>> When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods, someone
> >>> who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have control).
> >>> I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who signs
> >>> in to delete messages.
> >> The only way I can see to do this is if the owner nomiates new sign in
> >> members as owners in the manage members section. There is no automatic
> >> option for this. Someone who is an owner always has to do it for
> >> someone who isn't - than they can delete stuff.
> >>>We could do it this way if we put ALL the stuff that
> >>> needs to be stable on the html page (no instructions in the gg welcome
> >>> message or in priority posts).
> >> I'm not sure how we could avoid using the priority posts - they seem
> >> pretty important to the structure of the space. How will people know
> >> where to go to see what's on or to add an an activity or to cooperate?
> >>>This would mean that an individual would only
> >>> have to 'control' the initial set up - from then on, everyone is equal.
> >> That's what we want but it's not easy to see how to achieve it. The
> >> best I can think of right now is to use gg and leave the instructions
> >> and priority posts there and to encourage the original owner to
> >> nominate contributing members as owners so they can delete their own
> >> messages when need be. It may not be ideal but what choice do we have?
> >> The only alternative I can see is that we use gg as the starting point
> >> and pbworks is the workspace that is linked to from the two priority
> >> posts. New comers could go to this link with one click from the
> >> priority post and see what's on. If they want to add to it they would
> >> then need to sign up/in again. But once they signed in they could add
> >> and delete. I don't think we could use short lists and hyperlinks to
> >> more info though because this would be asking too much tech know how
> >> and we don't want someone to have to manage it. The person setting up
> >> the space would also have to set up gg and pb works and create links
> >> too pbworks from within gg and links back to gg from pb works - so
> >> it's pretty complicated. In fact it's probably too complicated. So
> >> that just leaves gg, priority posts and hitting reply to add an
> >> activity. The only people who can delete are those with owner
> >> permission which has to be given by an owner. At least anyone can add
> >> an activity and people can pass on owner permission as trust spreads -
> >> it may be a good thing.
> >>>> > OK. However I am worried that without someone taking responsibility for
> >>>> > maintenance it will become less and less easy to find up to date info.
> >>>> > If we
> >>>> > are going this way we need to be real about this and the best way to
> >>>> > really
> >>>> > face this is to ask who will maintain it on a ?weekly? basis - you or
> >>>> > me?
> >>>> I think it is only safe to assume that no one will maintain it.
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
> Alex
> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Chris,
> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> > Alex
> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >> Hi Chris, see below
> >> alex
> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> Hi Alex - see below
> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
> >>>> Alex
> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
> >>>> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>>> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
> >>>> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>>> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>>> >> Hi Chris
> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> >>>> >> write the message?
> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've
> >>>> > since
> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
> >>>> > embed a
> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> >>>> OK
> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
> >>>> > encourage the
> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I
> >>>> > agree
> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used
> >>>> > as a
> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here -
> >>>> > how
> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
> >>>> > updates
> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
> >>>> > required).
> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy (set up
> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to do the
> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but only
> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in principle,
> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not. That
> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in reality
> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered with.
> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
> >> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
> >> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
> >> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
> >> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
> >> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
> >> The point I made that started this was when I said:
> >> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >> there is just too much info."
> >> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
> >> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
> >> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
> >>>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
> >>>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
> >>>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
> >>> As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing that,
> >>> all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had principle
> >>> on its side.
> >> OK
> >>>> > It may be even better just to leave
> >>>> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
> >>>> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
> >>>> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
> >>>> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
> >>>> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
> >>>> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
> >>> When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods, someone
> >>> who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have control).
> >>> I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who signs
> >>> in to delete messages.
> >> The only way I can see to do this is if the owner nomiates new sign in
> >> members as owners in the manage members section. There is no automatic
> >> option for this. Someone who is an owner always has to do it for
> >> someone who isn't - than they can delete stuff.
> >>>We could do it this way if we put ALL the stuff that
> >>> needs to be stable on the html page (no instructions in the gg welcome
> >>> message or in priority posts).
> >> I'm not sure how we could avoid using the priority posts - they seem
> >> pretty important to the structure of the space. How will people know
> >> where to go to see what's on or to add an an activity or to cooperate?
> >>>This would mean that an individual would only
> >>> have to 'control' the initial set up - from then on, everyone is equal.
> >> That's what we want but it's not easy to see how to achieve it. The
> >> best I can think of right now is to use gg and leave the instructions
> >> and priority posts there and to encourage the original owner to
> >> nominate contributing members as owners so they can delete their own
> >> messages when need be. It may not be ideal but what choice do we have?
> >> The only alternative I can see is that we use gg as the starting point
> >> and pbworks is the workspace that is linked to from the two priority
> >> posts. New comers could go to this link with one click from the
> >> priority post and see what's on. If they want to add to it they would
> >> then need to sign up/in again. But once they signed in they could add
> >> and delete. I don't think we could use short lists and hyperlinks to
> >> more info though because this would be asking too much tech know how
> >> and we don't want someone to have to manage it. The person setting up
> >> the space would also have to set up gg and pb works and create links
> >> too pbworks from within gg and links back to gg from pb works - so
> >> it's pretty complicated. In fact it's probably too complicated. So
> >> that just leaves gg, priority posts and hitting reply to add an
> >> activity. The only people who can delete are those with owner
> >> permission which has to be given by an owner. At least anyone can add
> >> an activity and people can pass on owner permission as trust spreads -
> >> it may be a good thing.
> >>>> > OK. However I am worried that without someone taking responsibility for
> >>>> > maintenance it will become less and less easy to find up to date info.
> >>>> > If we
> >>>> > are going this way we need to be real about this and the best way to
> >>>> > really
> >>>> > face this is to ask who will maintain it on a ?weekly? basis - you or
> >>>> > me?
> >>>> I think it is only safe to assume that no one will maintain it.
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:04:03 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> Hi Chris, see below
> alex
> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> > Hi Alex - see below
> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >> Hi Chris see below.
> >> Alex
> >> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >> > Hi Alex - see below
> >> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
> >> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >> >> Hi Chris
> >> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
> >> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
> >> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> >> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> >> >> write the message?
> >> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've
> >> > since
> >> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
> >> > embed a
> >> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> >> OK
> >> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >> >> there is just too much info.
> >> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
> >> > encourage the
> >> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
> >> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I
> >> > agree
> >> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
> >> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used
> >> > as a
> >> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here -
> >> > how
> >> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
> >> > updates
> >> > without a leader/ moderator
> >> > Having said that, I think both options
> >> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
> >> >> by one person (leader problem).
> >> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
> >> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
> >> > required).
> >> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
> >> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
> >> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
> > I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy (set up
> > a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to do the
> > pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
> > prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but only
> > the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in principle,
> > pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not. That
> > said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in reality
> > equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered with.
> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
> The point I made that started this was when I said:
> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> there is just too much info."
> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
If we can get Google to be editable that would be fine - but pbworks might still be the right technology - people can comment on a page that we set up there and thus add events to it, edit it, delete events. Let's see what can evolve and not get committed yet.
> >> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
> >> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
> >> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
> > As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing that,
> > all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had principle
> > on its side.
> OK
> >> > It may be even better just to leave
> >> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
> >> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
> >> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
> >> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
> >> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
> >> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
> > When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods, someone
> > who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have control).
> > I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who signs
> > in to delete messages.
> The only way I can see to do this is if the owner nomiates new sign in
> members as owners in the manage members section. There is no automatic
> option for this.
That might make pb a better option. There anyone can edit, The trick will be to set up a page of events so they can just edit it rather than having to set up a page themselves. To get to that page they should be able to click on a direct link from the html page (likewise with "organise something")
Someone who is an owner always has to do it for
> someone who isn't - than they can delete stuff.
> >We could do it this way if we put ALL the stuff that
> > needs to be stable on the html page (no instructions in the gg welcome
> > message or in priority posts).
> I'm not sure how we could avoid using the priority posts - they seem
> pretty important to the structure of the space. How will people know
> where to go to see what's on or to add an an activity or to cooperate?
I was thinking it might be possible to link direct to the what's on post (likewise to the organise something post. But if you are right the problem is that only managers can delete posts ... therefore pb works might be a better place for these functions and gg purely for 'Chats'.
> >This would mean that an individual would only
> > have to 'control' the initial set up - from then on, everyone is equal.
> That's what we want but it's not easy to see how to achieve it. The
> best I can think of right now is to use gg and leave the instructions
> and priority posts there and to encourage the original owner to
> nominate contributing members as owners so they can delete their own
> messages when need be. It may not be ideal but what choice do we have?
see above
> The only alternative I can see is that we use gg as the starting point
> and pbworks is the workspace that is linked to from the two priority
> posts.
Yep (and directly from the html page for those who are not interested in chatting first ... although we need to point out that chatting is the principle rather than setting up as organiser.)
New comers could go to this link with one click from the
> priority post and see what's on. If they want to add to it they would
> then need to sign up/in again. But once they signed in they could add
> and delete.
Yep
I don't think we could use short lists and hyperlinks to
> more info though because this would be asking too much tech know how
> and we don't want someone to have to manage it.
A link on the html page to layouts would be OK - wherever we put the layouts people have to copy and paste.
The person setting up
> the space would also have to set up gg and pb works and create links
> too pbworks from within gg and links back to gg from pb works - so
> it's pretty complicated.
That's what the instructions I had in the old version did (except for the links which we could do ourselves without becoming managers because it IS POSSIBLE for anyone who signs in to do it.)
In fact it's probably too complicated. So
> that just leaves gg, priority posts and hitting reply to add an
> activity. The only people who can delete are those with owner
> permission which has to be given by an owner. At least anyone can add
> an activity and people can pass on owner permission as trust spreads -
> it may be a good thing.
I agree it is harder than we would like but I think that if we can just get Hope st working and keeping to the principles, we might later be able to get
...
I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can give security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work quite well.
Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only builds for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's on or to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex demands are achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways. See http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we will direct people to.
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
> Alex
> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Chris,
> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> > Alex
> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >> Hi Chris, see below
> >> alex
> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> Hi Alex - see below
> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
> >>>> Alex
> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
> >>>> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>>> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
> >>>> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>>> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>>> >> Hi Chris
> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message the
> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm already
> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> >>>> >> write the message?
> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message. I've
> >>>> > since
> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
> >>>> > embed a
> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> >>>> OK
> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
> >>>> > encourage the
> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells them to
> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards action. I
> >>>> > agree
> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a general
> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when used
> >>>> > as a
> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with here -
> >>>> > how
> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
> >>>> > updates
> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be maintained
> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the pbworks
> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
> >>>> > required).
> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy (set up
> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to do the
> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but only
> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in principle,
> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not. That
> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in reality
> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered with.
> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
> >> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
> >> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
> >> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
> >> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
> >> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
> >> The point I made that started this was when I said:
> >> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >> there is just too much info."
> >> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
> >> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
> >> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
> >>>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
> >>>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
> >>>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
> >>> As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing that,
> >>> all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had principle
> >>> on its side.
> >> OK
> >>>> > It may be even better just to leave
> >>>> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and mails in
> >>>> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to see
> >>>> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it has
> >>>> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as it
> >>>> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes are
> >>>> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
> >>> When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods, someone
> >>> who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have control).
> >>> I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who signs
> >>> in to delete messages.
> >> The only way I can see to do this is if the owner nomiates new sign in
> >> members as owners in the manage members section. There is no automatic
> >> option for this. Someone who is an owner always has to do it for
> >> someone who isn't - than they can delete stuff.
> >>>We could do it this way if we put ALL the stuff that
> >>> needs to be stable on the html page (no instructions in the gg welcome
> >>> message or in priority posts).
> >> I'm not sure how we could avoid using the priority posts - they seem
> >> pretty important to the structure of the space. How will people know
> >> where to go to see what's on or to add an an activity or to cooperate?
> >>>This would mean that an individual would only
> >>> have to 'control' the initial set up - from then on, everyone is equal.
> >> That's what we want but it's not easy to see how to achieve it. The
> >> best I can think of right now is to use gg and leave the instructions
> >> and priority posts there and to encourage the original owner to
> >> nominate contributing members as owners so they can delete their own
> >> messages when need be. It may not be ideal but what choice do we have?
> >> The only alternative I can see is that we use gg as the starting point
> >> and pbworks is the workspace that is linked to from the two priority
> >> posts. New comers could go to this link with one click from the
> >> priority post and see what's on. If they want to add to it they would
> >> then need to sign up/in again. But once they signed in they could add
> >> and delete. I don't think we could use short lists and hyperlinks to
> >> more info though because this would be asking too much tech know how
> >> and we don't want someone to have to manage it. The person setting up
> >> the space would also have to set up gg and pb works and create links
> >> too pbworks from within gg and links back to gg from pb works - so
> >> it's pretty complicated. In fact it's probably too complicated. So
> >> that just
Hi Chris,
I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
technology you are proposing for those links.
I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
real structured problems here.
In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
editing probs we were discussing before
In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
when it needs to be.
The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
for me to see what you are getting at?
Alex
2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> Hi Alex,
> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can give
> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work quite
> well.
> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only builds
> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's on or
> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex demands are
> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways. See
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we will direct
> people to.
> Chris
>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
>> Alex
>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> > Hi Chris,
>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
>> > Alex
>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> >> Hi Chris, see below
>> >> alex
>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
>> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
>> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
>> >>>> Alex
>> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
>> >>>> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
>> >>>> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> >>>> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message
>> >>>> >> the
>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm
>> >>>> >> already
>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
>> >>>> >> write the message?
>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message.
>> >>>> > I've
>> >>>> > since
>> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
>> >>>> > embed a
>> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
>> >>>> OK
>> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
>> >>>> >> think
>> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in
>> >>>> >> a
>> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than
>> >>>> >> the
>> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on
>> >>>> >> and
>> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
>> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
>> >>>> > encourage the
>> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells
>> >>>> > them to
>> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards
>> >>>> > action. I
>> >>>> > agree
>> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a
>> >>>> > general
>> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when
>> >>>> > used
>> >>>> > as a
>> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with
>> >>>> > here -
>> >>>> > how
>> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
>> >>>> > updates
>> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
>> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
>> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be
>> >>>> >> maintained
>> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
>> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the
>> >>>> > pbworks
>> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
>> >>>> > required).
>> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
>> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
>> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
>> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy
>> >>> (set up
>> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to
>> >>> do the
>> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
>> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but
>> >>> only
>> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in
>> >>> principle,
>> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not.
>> >>> That
>> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in
>> >>> reality
>> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered
>> >>> with.
>> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
>> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
>> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
>> >> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
>> >> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
>> >> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
>> >> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
>> >> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
>> >> The point I made that started this was when I said:
>> >> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
>> >> there is just too much info."
>> >> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
>> >> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
>> >> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
>> >>>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
>> >>>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
>> >>>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
>> >>> As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing
>> >>> that,
>> >>> all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had
>> >>> principle
>> >>> on its side.
>> >> OK
>> >>>> > It may be even better just to leave
>> >>>> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and
>> >>>> >> mails in
>> >>>> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to
>> >>>> >> see
>> >>>> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it
>> >>>> >> has
>> >>>> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as
>> >>>> >> it
>> >>>> >> contains a contact that can be followed up to see if new classes
>> >>>> >> are
>> >>>> >> running. It could be better but I think it's not bad.
>> >>> When you say someone you mean you or me (or in other neighbourhoods,
>> >>> someone
>> >>> who not only sets up the system but is seen to 'moderate' and have
>> >>> control).
>> >>> I have not looked yet, but it might be possible on gg for anyone who
>> >>> signs
>> >>> in to delete messages.
>> >> The only way I can see to do this is if the owner nomiates new sign in
>> >> members as owners in the manage members section. There is no automatic
> Hi Chris,
> I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
> suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
> opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
> reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
> technology you are proposing for those links.
> I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
> real structured problems here.
> In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
> This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
> editing probs we were discussing before
> In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
> people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
> seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
> how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
> when it needs to be.
> The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
> totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
> seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
> thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
> proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
> for me to see what you are getting at?
> Alex
> 2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> Hi Alex,
>> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can give
>> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work quite
>> well.
>> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
>> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only builds
>> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's on or
>> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex demands are
>> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
>> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
>> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways. See
>> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
>> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we will direct
>> people to.
>> Chris
>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
>>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
>>> Alex
>>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>>> > Hi Chris,
>>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
>>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
>>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
>>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
>>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
>>> > Alex
>>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>>> >> Hi Chris, see below
>>> >> alex
>>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
>>> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>>> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>>> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>>> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
>>> >>>> Alex
>>> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>>> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
>>> >>>> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>>> >>>> >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:50:14 -0800
>>> >>>> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>>> >>>> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
>>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message
>>> >>>> >> the
>>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm
>>> >>>> >> already
>>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
>>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
>>> >>>> >> write the message?
>>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message.
>>> >>>> > I've
>>> >>>> > since
>>> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
>>> >>>> > embed a
>>> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
>>> >>>> OK
>>> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
>>> >>>> >> think
>>> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in
>>> >>>> >> a
>>> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>>> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than
>>> >>>> >> the
>>> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on
>>> >>>> >> and
>>> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
>>> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
>>> >>>> > encourage the
>>> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells
>>> >>>> > them to
>>> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards
>>> >>>> > action. I
>>> >>>> > agree
>>> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a
>>> >>>> > general
>>> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when
>>> >>>> > used
>>> >>>> > as a
>>> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with
>>> >>>> > here -
>>> >>>> > how
>>> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
>>> >>>> > updates
>>> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
>>> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
>>> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be
>>> >>>> >> maintained
>>> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
>>> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the
>>> >>>> > pbworks
>>> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
>>> >>>> > required).
>>> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
>>> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
>>> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
>>> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy
>>> >>> (set up
>>> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to
>>> >>> do the
>>> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
>>> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but
>>> >>> only
>>> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in
>>> >>> principle,
>>> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not.
>>> >>> That
>>> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in
>>> >>> reality
>>> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered
>>> >>> with.
>>> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
>>> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
>>> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
>>> >> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
>>> >> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
>>> >> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
>>> >> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
>>> >> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
>>> >> The point I made that started this was when I said:
>>> >> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
>>> >> there is just too much info."
>>> >> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
>>> >> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
>>> >> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
>>> >>>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
>>> >>>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
>>> >>>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
>>> >>> As I have been saying, we are back to where we started ... agreeing
>>> >>> that,
>>> >>> all practicalities considered, gg is better .... but pbworks had
>>> >>> principle
>>> >>> on its side.
>>> >> OK
>>> >>>> > It may be even better just to leave
>>> >>>> >> the arrangement as self-help where anyone just hits reply and
>>> >>>> >> mails in
>>> >>>> >> their activity. It is not hard to look through the activities to
>>> >>>> >> see
>>> >>>> >> what's on and it's not hard for someone to delete a message if it
>>> >>>> >> has
>>> >>>> >> expired - but even if they don't the message can be left there as
>>> >>>> >> it
>>> >>>> >> contains a contact that
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:37:35 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> We need to get this wording sorted first:
> WELCOME!! - HERE YOU CAN:
> *SEE WHAT'S ON BY LOOKING THROUGH THE MESSAGES BELOW
> OR
> *ADD TO WHAT'S ON BY HITTING REPLY TO THIS WELCOME MESSAGE
> Please lay out the details using these headings:
> Name of event: Short Description: Date and Time: Location:
> Any Cost: Contact Person:
> 2009/11/6 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Chris,
> > I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
> > suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
> > opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
> > reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
> > technology you are proposing for those links.
> > I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
> > real structured problems here.
> > In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
> > This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
> > editing probs we were discussing before
> > In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
> > people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
> > seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
> > how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
> > when it needs to be.
> > The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
> > totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
> > seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
> > thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
> > proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
> > for me to see what you are getting at?
> > Alex
> > 2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >> Hi Alex,
> >> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can give
> >> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work quite
> >> well.
> >> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
> >> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only builds
> >> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's on or
> >> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex demands are
> >> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
> >> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
> >> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways. See
> >> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
> >> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we will direct
> >> people to.
> >> Chris
> >>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
> >>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
> >>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
> >>> Alex
> >>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >>> > Hi Chris,
> >>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> >>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> >>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
> >>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> >>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> >>> > Alex
> >>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >>> >> Hi Chris, see below
> >>> >> alex
> >>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
> >>> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
> >>> >>>> Alex
> >>> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
> >>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
> >>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message
> >>> >>>> >> the
> >>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm
> >>> >>>> >> already
> >>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> >>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> >>> >>>> >> write the message?
> >>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message.
> >>> >>>> > I've
> >>> >>>> > since
> >>> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
> >>> >>>> > embed a
> >>> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> >>> >>>> OK
> >>> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
> >>> >>>> >> think
> >>> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in
> >>> >>>> >> a
> >>> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >>> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than
> >>> >>>> >> the
> >>> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on
> >>> >>>> >> and
> >>> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
> >>> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
> >>> >>>> > encourage the
> >>> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells
> >>> >>>> > them to
> >>> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards
> >>> >>>> > action. I
> >>> >>>> > agree
> >>> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a
> >>> >>>> > general
> >>> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when
> >>> >>>> > used
> >>> >>>> > as a
> >>> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with
> >>> >>>> > here -
> >>> >>>> > how
> >>> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
> >>> >>>> > updates
> >>> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
> >>> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
> >>> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be
> >>> >>>> >> maintained
> >>> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
> >>> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the
> >>> >>>> > pbworks
> >>> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
> >>> >>>> > required).
> >>> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
> >>> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
> >>> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
> >>> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy
> >>> >>> (set up
> >>> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to
> >>> >>> do the
> >>> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
> >>> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but
> >>> >>> only
> >>> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in
> >>> >>> principle,
> >>> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not.
> >>> >>> That
> >>> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in
> >>> >>> reality
> >>> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered
> >>> >>> with.
> >>> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
> >>> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
> >>> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
> >>> >> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
> >>> >> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
> >>> >> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
> >>> >> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
> >>> >> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
> >>> >> The point I made that started this was when I said:
> >>> >> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >>> >> there is just too much info."
> >>> >> I agree that in principle pbworks is better than both because it is
> >>> >> easier to make it editable by people who can work it all out. But I
> >>> >> agree with you that this is too tech dependent.
> >>> >>>> Things would also have to be deleted here as well. On top of the
> >>> >>>> additional set up complication, asking people to set this up and
> >>> >>>> navigate between pbworks and gg just seems like too much to ask.
I would like to look at the message on the opening page of gg. I've added suggestions in red.
Welcome neighbours!!
(To join in, join this free group and go for it)
Here locals to Hope St Blaxland can see what neighbours are talking about. (click on messages below - then add your thoughts by clicking "reply".)
Start a new topic by clicking on "+new post"
Also, see WHAT'S ON or add activities (see second link)
* COOPERATE TO ORGANISE SOMETHING (It would be a good idea to send these initial posts etc from NTW rather than from Alex or Chris so that NTW is the author of everything.)
> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:37:35 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> We need to get this wording sorted first:
> HERE YOU CAN:
> *SEE WHAT'S ON BY LOOKING THROUGH THE MESSAGES BELOW
> OR
> *ADD TO WHAT'S ON BY HITTING REPLY
> ...If you're adding an event try and be brief:
> Name of event: Short Description: Date and Time: Location:
> Cost: Contact Person:
> Alex
> 2009/11/6 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Chris,
> > I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
> > suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
> > opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
> > reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
> > technology you are proposing for those links.
> > I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
> > real structured problems here.
> > In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
> > This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
> > editing probs we were discussing before
> > In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
> > people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
> > seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
> > how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
> > when it needs to be.
> > The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
> > totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
> > seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
> > thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
> > proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
> > for me to see what you are getting at?
> > Alex
> > 2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >> Hi Alex,
> >> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can give
> >> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work quite
> >> well.
> >> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
> >> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only builds
> >> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's on or
> >> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex demands are
> >> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
> >> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
> >> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways. See
> >> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
> >> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we will direct
> >> people to.
> >> Chris
> >>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
> >>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
> >>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
> >>> Alex
> >>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >>> > Hi Chris,
> >>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> >>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> >>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
> >>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> >>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> >>> > Alex
> >>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >>> >> Hi Chris, see below
> >>> >> alex
> >>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
> >>> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
> >>> >>>> Alex
> >>> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
> >>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
> >>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message
> >>> >>>> >> the
> >>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm
> >>> >>>> >> already
> >>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> >>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> >>> >>>> >> write the message?
> >>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message.
> >>> >>>> > I've
> >>> >>>> > since
> >>> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
> >>> >>>> > embed a
> >>> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> >>> >>>> OK
> >>> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
> >>> >>>> >> think
> >>> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in
> >>> >>>> >> a
> >>> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >>> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than
> >>> >>>> >> the
> >>> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on
> >>> >>>> >> and
> >>> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
> >>> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
> >>> >>>> > encourage the
> >>> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells
> >>> >>>> > them to
> >>> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards
> >>> >>>> > action. I
> >>> >>>> > agree
> >>> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a
> >>> >>>> > general
> >>> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when
> >>> >>>> > used
> >>> >>>> > as a
> >>> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with
> >>> >>>> > here -
> >>> >>>> > how
> >>> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
> >>> >>>> > updates
> >>> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
> >>> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
> >>> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be
> >>> >>>> >> maintained
> >>> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
> >>> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the
> >>> >>>> > pbworks
> >>> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
> >>> >>>> > required).
> >>> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
> >>> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
> >>> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
> >>> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy
> >>> >>> (set up
> >>> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to
> >>> >>> do the
> >>> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
> >>> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but
> >>> >>> only
> >>> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in
> >>> >>> principle,
> >>> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not.
> >>> >>> That
> >>> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in
> >>> >>> reality
> >>> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be bothered
> >>> >>> with.
> >>> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
> >>> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing pbworks
> >>> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were using
> >>> >> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
> >>> >> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I understand
> >>> >> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
> >>> >> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html was a
> >>> >> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
> >>> >> The point I made that started this was when I said:
> >>> >> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to think
> >>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in a
> >>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than the
> >>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on and
> >>> >> there is just too much
use 'shift+enter' at an appropriate pause in a sentence to get wording on the right line and avoid wierd auto breaks
more see below
If we want people to intersperse, we should guide them to do so. If they don't intersperse they need to copy the headings. If they do neither they are less likely to get organised and cooperation will be fraught.
WELCOME!!
THE HEADINGS AND TIPS BELOW ARE (DESIGNED - delete) TO HELP NEIGHBOURS ORGANISE (AN ACTIVITY - delete) TOGETHER ONLINE.
JUST HIT REPLY TO THIS WELCOME MESSAGE. IN THE SPACE THAT OPENS, CLICK YOUR CURSOR IN THE LINE UNDER STEP 1 etc AND START DEVELOPING THE ACTIVITY. WHEN OTHERS GET WHAT YOU HAVE DRAFTED THEY CAN JOIN IN ITS DEVELOPMENT. _____________________________________________ STEP 1 - DESCRIBE THE ACTIVITY
add a space
STEP 2 - SUGGEST JOBS FOR THE ACTIVITY
add a space
at any stage (you can take this step further ....) delete - complex jobs can be broken down into smaller jobs (that anyone could take on - delete) -(even - delete) create job steps to help anyone do the job) delete bracket
- add any missing jobs (- jobs can be grouped under headings - delete)
(we are developing an on line template to help organise these breakdowns)
add a space
STEP 3 - PUT THE JOBS IN DATE ORDER
add a space
AND THEN ... ...for those in your group not using the forum
STEP 4 - MAKE A PRINTED COPY AVAILABLE TO ALL
________________________________________________ When you do organise something (on your own page - delete) (even in a simple way) you could help people in other neighbourhoods to avoid reinventing the same wheel by sending what have you have done to ntwp...@gmail.com I notice that this address is active - this happens automatically once an address is typed but I think it is an auto editing step which can be undonr so the full address is reproduced. (I hope)
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:37:35 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> We need to get this wording sorted first:
> HERE YOU CAN:
> *SEE WHAT'S ON BY LOOKING THROUGH THE MESSAGES BELOW
> OR
> *ADD TO WHAT'S ON BY HITTING REPLY
> ...If you're adding an event try and be brief:
> Name of event: Short Description: Date and Time: Location:
> Cost: Contact Person:
> Alex
> 2009/11/6 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Chris,
> > I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
> > suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
> > opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
> > reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
> > technology you are proposing for those links.
> > I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
> > real structured problems here.
> > In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
> > This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
> > editing probs we were discussing before
> > In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
> > people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
> > seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
> > how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
> > when it needs to be.
> > The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
> > totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
> > seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
> > thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
> > proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
> > for me to see what you are getting at?
> > Alex
> > 2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >> Hi Alex,
> >> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can give
> >> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work quite
> >> well.
> >> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
> >> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only builds
> >> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's on or
> >> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex demands are
> >> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
> >> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
> >> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways. See
> >> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
> >> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we will direct
> >> people to.
> >> Chris
> >>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
> >>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
> >>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
> >>> Alex
> >>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >>> > Hi Chris,
> >>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> >>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> >>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see what's
> >>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> >>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> >>> > Alex
> >>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >>> >> Hi Chris, see below
> >>> >> alex
> >>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
> >>> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >>> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >>> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
> >>> >>>> Alex
> >>> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >>> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
> >>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
> >>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the message
> >>> >>>> >> the
> >>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm
> >>> >>>> >> already
> >>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set up an
> >>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did you
> >>> >>>> >> write the message?
> >>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum) message.
> >>> >>>> > I've
> >>> >>>> > since
> >>> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you can't
> >>> >>>> > embed a
> >>> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> >>> >>>> OK
> >>> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
> >>> >>>> >> think
> >>> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in
> >>> >>>> >> a
> >>> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> >>> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer than
> >>> >>>> >> the
> >>> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see what on
> >>> >>>> >> and
> >>> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
> >>> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
> >>> >>>> > encourage the
> >>> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells
> >>> >>>> > them to
> >>> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards
> >>> >>>> > action. I
> >>> >>>> > agree
> >>> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a
> >>> >>>> > general
> >>> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance when
> >>> >>>> > used
> >>> >>>> > as a
> >>> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling with
> >>> >>>> > here -
> >>> >>>> > how
> >>> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and make
> >>> >>>> > updates
> >>> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
> >>> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
> >>> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be
> >>> >>>> >> maintained
> >>> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
> >>> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the
> >>> >>>> > pbworks
> >>> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no leader/moderator
> >>> >>>> > required).
> >>> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a list
> >>> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which you
> >>> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment box.
> >>> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be tec-savy
> >>> >>> (set up
> >>> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having to
> >>> >>> do the
> >>> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who is
> >>> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks but
> >>> >>> only
> >>> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in
> >>> >>> principle,
> >>> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is not.
> >>> >>> That
> >>> >>> said I
Hi Chris, I'll look through your changes but I've also set up a new
structure that links from: http://ntw.110mb.com/myarea.htm
It has three parallel forums so the chat, the what's on and the
co-operator stuff can be easily used. This has been developed in
response to the problems with the deleting issues with the what's on
link as well as the problem of not having an hyperlink index. Doing it
this way means no message will ever need deleting and the messages
will automatically having nice headings that link to detail and so
their are no management issues. The search or the older posts feature
can also be used here for messages that drop off the front page.
Also the problem with the getting organised link seemed unresolvable
within the old structure because there was no way that different
activities could be organised in that one priority post - I realised
today that this would be a giant mess very quickly. By having it as a
parallel forum the activity names are indexed automatically and each
new activity gets it own working topic area.
People can view all three structures without any sign in issue and
they can sign into all three with the same email and password. Once
they have joined all three they will only need to sign in once and
they will have automatic permission to contribute in all three as all
three will recognise that they have signed in.
Alex
2009/11/9 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> use 'shift+enter' at an appropriate pause in a sentence
> to get wording on the right line
> and avoid wierd auto breaks
> more see below
> If we want people to intersperse, we should guide them to do so. If they
> don't intersperse they need to copy the headings. If they do neither they
> are less likely to get organised and cooperation will be fraught.
> WELCOME!!
> THE HEADINGS AND TIPS BELOW ARE (DESIGNED - delete) TO HELP NEIGHBOURS
> ORGANISE (AN ACTIVITY - delete) TOGETHER ONLINE.
> JUST HIT REPLY TO THIS WELCOME MESSAGE. IN THE SPACE THAT OPENS, CLICK YOUR
> CURSOR IN THE LINE UNDER STEP 1 etc AND START DEVELOPING THE ACTIVITY. WHEN
> OTHERS GET WHAT YOU HAVE DRAFTED THEY CAN JOIN IN ITS DEVELOPMENT.
> _____________________________________________
> STEP 1 - DESCRIBE THE ACTIVITY
> add a space
> STEP 2 - SUGGEST JOBS FOR THE ACTIVITY
> add a space
> at any stage (you can take this step further ....) delete
> - complex jobs can be broken down into smaller jobs (that anyone could
> take on - delete)
> -(even - delete) create job steps to help anyone do the job) delete bracket
> - add any missing jobs
> (- jobs can be grouped under headings - delete)
> (we are developing an on line template to help organise these breakdowns)
> add a space
> STEP 3 - PUT THE JOBS IN DATE ORDER
> add a space
> AND THEN ...
> ...for those in your group not using the forum
> STEP 4 - MAKE A PRINTED COPY AVAILABLE TO ALL
> ________________________________________________
> When you do organise something (on your own page - delete) (even in a simple
> way)
> you could help people in other neighbourhoods to avoid reinventing
> the
> same wheel by sending what have you have done to ntwp...@gmail.com
> I notice that this address is active - this happens automatically once an
> address is typed but I think it is an auto editing step which can be undonr
> so the full address is reproduced. (I hope)
>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:37:35 -0800
>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> We need to get this wording sorted first:
>> HERE YOU CAN:
>> *SEE WHAT'S ON BY LOOKING THROUGH THE MESSAGES BELOW
>> OR
>> *ADD TO WHAT'S ON BY HITTING REPLY
>> ...If you're adding an event try and be brief:
>> Name of event: Short Description: Date and Time: Location:
>> Cost: Contact Person:
>> Alex
>> 2009/11/6 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> > Hi Chris,
>> > I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
>> > suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
>> > opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
>> > reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
>> > technology you are proposing for those links.
>> > I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
>> > real structured problems here.
>> > In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
>> > This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
>> > editing probs we were discussing before
>> > In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
>> > people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
>> > seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
>> > how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
>> > when it needs to be.
>> > The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
>> > totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
>> > seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
>> > thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
>> > proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
>> > for me to see what you are getting at?
>> > Alex
>> > 2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> >> Hi Alex,
>> >> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can
>> >> give
>> >> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work
>> >> quite
>> >> well.
>> >> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
>> >> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only
>> >> builds
>> >> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's
>> >> on or
>> >> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex
>> >> demands are
>> >> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
>> >> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
>> >> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways.
>> >> See
>> >> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
>> >> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we
>> >> will direct
>> >> people to.
>> >> Chris
>> >>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> >>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
>> >>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> >>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> >>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
>> >>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
>> >>> Alex
>> >>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> >>> > Hi Chris,
>> >>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
>> >>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
>> >>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see
>> >>> > what's
>> >>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
>> >>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
>> >>> > Alex
>> >>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> >>> >> Hi Chris, see below
>> >>> >> alex
>> >>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> >>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
>> >>> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
>> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> >>> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> >>> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
>> >>> >>>> Alex
>> >>> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> >>> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
>> >>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
>> >>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the
>> >>> >>>> >> message
>> >>> >>>> >> the
>> >>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm
>> >>> >>>> >> already
>> >>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set
>> >>> >>>> >> up an
>> >>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did
>> >>> >>>> >> you
>> >>> >>>> >> write the message?
>> >>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum)
>> >>> >>>> > message.
>> >>> >>>> > I've
>> >>> >>>> > since
>> >>> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you
>> >>> >>>> > can't
>> >>> >>>> > embed a
>> >>> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
>> >>> >>>> OK
>> >>> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
>> >>> >>>> >> think
>> >>> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's
>> >>> >>>> >> on in
>> >>> >>>> >> a
>> >>> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>> >>> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer
>> >>> >>>> >> than
>> >>> >>>> >> the
>> >>> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see
>> >>> >>>> >> what on
>> >>> >>>> >> and
>> >>> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
>> >>> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
>> >>> >>>> > encourage the
>> >>> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells
>> >>> >>>> > them to
>> >>> >>>> > organise jobs
I would be glad if you would look through the changes in my previous 3 (I think) emails as they contain elements that will help develop this new format.
I'll wait until the dust settles as we are starting to leap frog each other and that is no good.
I will be away tomorrow at a conference on the contributon of the NFP sector - I want to take the opportunity to advance the recognition of VW as full satisfaction of mutual obligations.
> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:51:03 -0800
> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> Hi Chris, I'll look through your changes but I've also set up a new
> structure that links from: http://ntw.110mb.com/myarea.htm
> It has three parallel forums so the chat, the what's on and the
> co-operator stuff can be easily used. This has been developed in
> response to the problems with the deleting issues with the what's on
> link as well as the problem of not having an hyperlink index. Doing it
> this way means no message will ever need deleting and the messages
> will automatically having nice headings that link to detail and so
> their are no management issues. The search or the older posts feature
> can also be used here for messages that drop off the front page.
> Also the problem with the getting organised link seemed unresolvable
> within the old structure because there was no way that different
> activities could be organised in that one priority post - I realised
> today that this would be a giant mess very quickly. By having it as a
> parallel forum the activity names are indexed automatically and each
> new activity gets it own working topic area.
> People can view all three structures without any sign in issue and
> they can sign into all three with the same email and password. Once
> they have joined all three they will only need to sign in once and
> they will have automatic permission to contribute in all three as all
> three will recognise that they have signed in.
> Alex
> 2009/11/9 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> > Hi Alex,
> > use 'shift+enter' at an appropriate pause in a sentence
> > to get wording on the right line
> > and avoid wierd auto breaks
> > more see below
> > If we want people to intersperse, we should guide them to do so. If they
> > don't intersperse they need to copy the headings. If they do neither they
> > are less likely to get organised and cooperation will be fraught.
> > WELCOME!!
> > THE HEADINGS AND TIPS BELOW ARE (DESIGNED - delete) TO HELP NEIGHBOURS
> > ORGANISE (AN ACTIVITY - delete) TOGETHER ONLINE.
> > JUST HIT REPLY TO THIS WELCOME MESSAGE. IN THE SPACE THAT OPENS, CLICK YOUR
> > CURSOR IN THE LINE UNDER STEP 1 etc AND START DEVELOPING THE ACTIVITY. WHEN
> > OTHERS GET WHAT YOU HAVE DRAFTED THEY CAN JOIN IN ITS DEVELOPMENT.
> > _____________________________________________
> > STEP 1 - DESCRIBE THE ACTIVITY
> > add a space
> > STEP 2 - SUGGEST JOBS FOR THE ACTIVITY
> > add a space
> > at any stage (you can take this step further ....) delete
> > - complex jobs can be broken down into smaller jobs (that anyone could
> > take on - delete)
> > -(even - delete) create job steps to help anyone do the job) delete bracket
> > - add any missing jobs
> > (- jobs can be grouped under headings - delete)
> > (we are developing an on line template to help organise these breakdowns)
> > add a space
> > STEP 3 - PUT THE JOBS IN DATE ORDER
> > add a space
> > AND THEN ...
> > ...for those in your group not using the forum
> > STEP 4 - MAKE A PRINTED COPY AVAILABLE TO ALL
> > ________________________________________________
> > When you do organise something (on your own page - delete) (even in a simple
> > way)
> > you could help people in other neighbourhoods to avoid reinventing
> > the
> > same wheel by sending what have you have done to ntwp...@gmail.com
> > I notice that this address is active - this happens automatically once an
> > address is typed but I think it is an auto editing step which can be undonr
> > so the full address is reproduced. (I hope)
> >> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:37:35 -0800
> >> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >> We need to get this wording sorted first:
> >> HERE YOU CAN:
> >> *SEE WHAT'S ON BY LOOKING THROUGH THE MESSAGES BELOW
> >> OR
> >> *ADD TO WHAT'S ON BY HITTING REPLY
> >> ...If you're adding an event try and be brief:
> >> Name of event: Short Description: Date and Time: Location:
> >> Cost: Contact Person:
> >> Alex
> >> 2009/11/6 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >> > Hi Chris,
> >> > I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
> >> > suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
> >> > opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
> >> > reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
> >> > technology you are proposing for those links.
> >> > I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
> >> > real structured problems here.
> >> > In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
> >> > This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
> >> > editing probs we were discussing before
> >> > In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
> >> > people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
> >> > seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
> >> > how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
> >> > when it needs to be.
> >> > The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
> >> > totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
> >> > seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
> >> > thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
> >> > proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
> >> > for me to see what you are getting at?
> >> > Alex
> >> > 2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >> >> Hi Alex,
> >> >> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can
> >> >> give
> >> >> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work
> >> >> quite
> >> >> well.
> >> >> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
> >> >> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only
> >> >> builds
> >> >> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's
> >> >> on or
> >> >> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex
> >> >> demands are
> >> >> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
> >> >> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
> >> >> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways.
> >> >> See
> >> >> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
> >> >> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we
> >> >> will direct
> >> >> people to.
> >> >> Chris
> >> >>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> >> >>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
> >> >>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> >> >>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> >> >>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
> >> >>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
> >> >>> Alex
> >> >>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >> >>> > Hi Chris,
> >> >>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> >> >>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> >> >>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see
> >> >>> > what's
> >> >>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> >> >>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> >> >>> > Alex
> >> >>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> >> >>> >> Hi Chris, see below
> >> >>> >> alex
> >> >>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> >> >>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
> >> >>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
> >> >>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the
> >> >>> >>>> >> message
> >> >>> >>>> >> the
> >> >>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm
> >> >>> >>>> >> already
> >> >>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set
> >> >>> >>>> >> up an
> >> >>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did
> >> >>> >>>> >> you
> >> >>> >>>> >> write the message?
> >> >>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum)
> >> >>> >>>> > message.
> >> >>> >>>> > I've
>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:37:35 -0800
>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> We need to get this wording sorted first:
>> WELCOME!! - HERE YOU CAN:
>> *SEE WHAT'S ON BY LOOKING THROUGH THE MESSAGES BELOW
>> OR
>> *ADD TO WHAT'S ON BY HITTING REPLY TO THIS WELCOME MESSAGE
>> Please lay out the details using these headings:
>> Name of event: Short Description: Date and Time: Location:
>> Any Cost: Contact Person:
> Chris
>> Alex
>> 2009/11/6 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> > Hi Chris,
>> > I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
>> > suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
>> > opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
>> > reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
>> > technology you are proposing for those links.
>> > I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
>> > real structured problems here.
>> > In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
>> > This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
>> > editing probs we were discussing before
>> > In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
>> > people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
>> > seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
>> > how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
>> > when it needs to be.
>> > The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
>> > totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
>> > seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
>> > thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
>> > proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
>> > for me to see what you are getting at?
>> > Alex
>> > 2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> >> Hi Alex,
>> >> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it can
>> >> give
>> >> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work
>> >> quite
>> >> well.
>> >> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
>> >> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only
>> >> builds
>> >> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's
>> >> on or
>> >> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex
>> >> demands are
>> >> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
>> >> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
>> >> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways.
>> >> See
>> >> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
>> >> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we
>> >> will direct
>> >> people to.
>> >> Chris
>> >>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> >>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
>> >>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> >>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> >>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.com address
>> >>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
>> >>> Alex
>> >>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> >>> > Hi Chris,
>> >>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
>> >>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
>> >>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see
>> >>> > what's
>> >>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
>> >>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
>> >>> > Alex
>> >>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
>> >>> >> Hi Chris, see below
>> >>> >> alex
>> >>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> >>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
>> >>> >>>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
>> >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:19:29 -0800
>> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
>> >>> >>>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
>> >>> >>>> Hi Chris see below.
>> >>> >>>> Alex
>> >>> >>>> 2009/11/3 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
>> >>> >>>> > Hi Alex - see below
>> >>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
>> >>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the
>> >>> >>>> >> message
>> >>> >>>> >> the
>> >>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address I'm
>> >>> >>>> >> already
>> >>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set
>> >>> >>>> >> up an
>> >>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly did
>> >>> >>>> >> you
>> >>> >>>> >> write the message?
>> >>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum)
>> >>> >>>> > message.
>> >>> >>>> > I've
>> >>> >>>> > since
>> >>> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you
>> >>> >>>> > can't
>> >>> >>>> > embed a
>> >>> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
>> >>> >>>> OK
>> >>> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
>> >>> >>>> >> think
>> >>> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's
>> >>> >>>> >> on in
>> >>> >>>> >> a
>> >>> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
>> >>> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer
>> >>> >>>> >> than
>> >>> >>>> >> the
>> >>> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see
>> >>> >>>> >> what on
>> >>> >>>> >> and
>> >>> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
>> >>> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
>> >>> >>>> > encourage the
>> >>> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that tells
>> >>> >>>> > them to
>> >>> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards
>> >>> >>>> > action. I
>> >>> >>>> > agree
>> >>> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as a
>> >>> >>>> > general
>> >>> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance
>> >>> >>>> > when
>> >>> >>>> > used
>> >>> >>>> > as a
>> >>> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling
>> >>> >>>> > with
>> >>> >>>> > here -
>> >>> >>>> > how
>> >>> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and
>> >>> >>>> > make
>> >>> >>>> > updates
>> >>> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
>> >>> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
>> >>> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be
>> >>> >>>> >> maintained
>> >>> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
>> >>> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff the
>> >>> >>>> > pbworks
>> >>> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no
>> >>> >>>> > leader/moderator
>> >>> >>>> > required).
>> >>> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a
>> >>> >>>> list
>> >>> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info which
>> >>> >>>> you
>> >>> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment
>> >>> >>>> box.
>> >>> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be
>> >>> >>> tec-savy
>> >>> >>> (set up
>> >>> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having
>> >>> >>> to
>> >>> >>> do the
>> >>> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour who
>> >>> >>> is
>> >>> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit pbworks
>> >>> >>> but
>> >>> >>> only
>> >>> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in
>> >>> >>> principle,
>> >>> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is
>> >>> >>> not.
>> >>> >>> That
>> >>> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in
>> >>> >>> reality
>> >>> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be
>> >>> >>> bothered
>> >>> >>> with.
>> >>> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
>> >>> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing
>> >>> >> pbworks
>> >>> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were
>> >>> >> using
>> >>> >> to a html page. This was because we started talking about linking a
>> >>> >> calendar to gg to make the activities more accessible. As I
>> >>> >> understand
>> >>> >> it, the Calendar, like the html page, is only editable (add to or
>> >>> >> delete from) by the calendar owner. When I compared the two html
>> >>> >> was a
>> >>> >> much nicer format - that is all I was saying.
>> >>> >> The point I made that started this was when I said:
>> >>> >> "Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
>> >>> >> think
>> >>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's on in
>> >>> >> a
> > Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> > To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> > We need to get this wording sorted first:
> > HERE YOU CAN:
> > *SEE WHAT'S ON BY LOOKING THROUGH THE MESSAGES BELOW
> > OR
> > *ADD TO WHAT'S ON BY HITTING REPLY
> > ...If you're adding an event try and be brief:
> > Name of event: Short Description: Date and Time: Location:
> > Cost: Contact Person:
> > Alex
> > 2009/11/6 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > > Hi Chris,
> > > I've had a look at your draft and am a bit confused about what you are
> > > suggesting. Although I can see what you are getting at with the
> > > opening page (although I think the wording will have to be drastically
> > > reduced) none of the links seem to make sense and I'm not sure what
> > > technology you are proposing for those links.
> > > I know you are not too worried about words but there seems to be some
> > > real structured problems here.
> > > In the first link I'm unclear how you are proposing to show what's on.
> > > This looks like a gg page and so I'm guessing it would have the smae
> > > editing probs we were discussing before
> > > In the second link I can't work out how to add to what's on. You refer
> > > people to 'discuss this page' but there is no link to this. It also
> > > seems like an oddly named link for this purpose. It is also unclear
> > > how this will add to the what's on list or how this will be deleted
> > > when it needs to be.
> > > The third link which is the help to get something organised link I got
> > > totally lost in. The instructions were unclear to me and the links
> > > seemed to just lead to more and more instructions that made the whole
> > > thing too complex to figure out. I'm really unclear about what you are
> > > proposing here - is there any way you can make it functional enough
> > > for me to see what you are getting at?
> > > Alex
> > > 2009/11/5 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> > >> Hi Alex,
> > >> I've been working on the combination I suggested because I think it
> can give
> > >> security as well as full editing & ownership by all. It seems to work
> quite
> > >> well.
> > >> Some of the moves are a little complex, but then some of the tasks are
> > >> complex so NO technology will ever overcome that. The complexity only
> builds
> > >> for those who want to achieve more - a simple visit to find out what's
> on or
> > >> to chat about something is low complexity. Even the most complex
> demands are
> > >> achievable fairly simply by following the prompts.
> > >> I am sure the layouts can be improved on, and the wording - I'm not to
> > >> worried about that for now - just the issues above and the pathways.
> See
> > >> http://groups.google.com.au/group/hope-street
> > >> Of course we need to work on the html page which is where we
> will direct
> > >> people to.
> > >> Chris
> > >>> From: akme.baum...@gmail.com
> > >>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:19:30 -0800
> > >>> Subject: Re: The Cooperator
> > >>> To: neighbourhoodthatworks@googlegroups.com
> > >>> I still have not been able to secure the www.my-area.110mb.comaddress > > >>> because 110mb is doing maintenance. I'll keep trying.
> > >>> Alex
> > >>> 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > >>> > Hi Chris,
> > >>> > We have a bit if a problem because we are now refering traffic from
> > >>> > the www.ntw.110mb.myneighbourhood.htm to the new and evolving gg
> > >>> > space. The posters you have up invite people to go here to see
> what's
> > >>> > on and currently there's nothing there. For now I can just link the
> > >>> > what's on priority post the the pbworks what's on page you set up.
> > >>> > Alex
> > >>> > 2009/11/4 Alex Baumann <akme.baum...@gmail.com>:
> > >>> >> Hi Chris, see below
> > >>> >> alex
> > >>> >> 2009/11/4 Chris Baulman <chrisbaul...@hotmail.com>:
> > >>> >>> Hi Alex - see below
> > >>> >>>> >> Hi Chris
> > >>> >>>> >> I pasted this code into a forum message. When you view the
> message
> > >>> >>>> >> the
> > >>> >>>> >> whole code appears - which is longer than the html address
> I'm
> > >>> >>>> >> already
> > >>> >>>> >> using. Am I not doing it properly? Have you been able to set
> up an
> > >>> >>>> >> active link in a forum message this way? If so how exactly
> did you
> > >>> >>>> >> write the message?
> > >>> >>>> > I embedded into a pbworks doc, not into an email (forum)
> message.
> > >>> >>>> > I've
> > >>> >>>> > since
> > >>> >>>> > checked Google help and it seems that, crazy as it seems, you
> can't
> > >>> >>>> > embed a
> > >>> >>>> > Google calendar into a Googlegroup forum.
> > >>> >>>> OK
> > >>> >>>> >> Looking at the calendar link you sent me I'm also starting to
> > >>> >>>> >> think
> > >>> >>>> >> that if we are going to link to something to show the what's
> on in
> > >>> >>>> >> a
> > >>> >>>> >> better way it would be better to link to a html page with the
> > >>> >>>> >> activities listed and linked to info. This is much clearer
> than
> > >>> >>>> >> the
> > >>> >>>> >> calendar which to me is overwhelming in that you can't see
> what on
> > >>> >>>> >> and
> > >>> >>>> >> there is just too much info.
> > >>> >>>> > Originally, when I thought of a calendar, I was also trying to
> > >>> >>>> > encourage the
> > >>> >>>> > group who had reached Step 4 (or whatever step it is that
> tells
> > >>> >>>> > them to
> > >>> >>>> > organise jobs into date order) to take a formal step towards
> > >>> >>>> > action. I
> > >>> >>>> > agree
> > >>> >>>> > that the calendar is hard to find stuff in when it is used as
> a
> > >>> >>>> > general
> > >>> >>>> > neighbourhood activity list, but it might have more relevance
> when
> > >>> >>>> > used
> > >>> >>>> > as a
> > >>> >>>> > to do list. That said, it is not the issue we are grappling
> with
> > >>> >>>> > here -
> > >>> >>>> > how
> > >>> >>>> > to give easy access to what's on, how to make it editable and
> make
> > >>> >>>> > updates
> > >>> >>>> > without a leader/ moderator
> > >>> >>>> > Having said that, I think both options
> > >>> >>>> >> would be hard for anyone else to set up and they have to be
> > >>> >>>> >> maintained
> > >>> >>>> >> by one person (leader problem).
> > >>> >>>> > Yep - if we were going to require people to do techie stuff
> the
> > >>> >>>> > pbworks
> > >>> >>>> > version would at least be editable by anyone (no
> leader/moderator
> > >>> >>>> > required).
> > >>> >>>> Not really. The way you had it set up required the addition to a
> list
> > >>> >>>> which they could do but then it required a link to the info
> which you
> > >>> >>>> were going to do once they fed you the info through the comment
> box.
> > >>> >>> I was saying that if we were going to require people to be
> tec-savy
> > >>> >>> (set up
> > >>> >>> a html page) then that level of tec-savy would be equal to having
> to
> > >>> >>> do the
> > >>> >>> pbworks stuff ... however the difference is that any neighbour
> who is
> > >>> >>> prepared to get their head around the tec stuff could edit
> pbworks but
> > >>> >>> only
> > >>> >>> the owner of the html page could edit that. I am saying that in
> > >>> >>> principle,
> > >>> >>> pbworks is accessible by all whereas what you are suggesting is
> not.
> > >>> >>> That
> > >>> >>> said I am still tending towards gg rather than pbworks because in
> > >>> >>> reality
> > >>> >>> equal access in pbworks depends on tec stuff most will not be
> bothered
> > >>> >>> with.
> > >>> >> I think there is confusion here. If you look again at what I was
> > >>> >> saying (I've pasted it immediately below) I wasn't comparing
> pbworks
> > >>> >> to a html page I was comparing the calendar application you were
> use 'shift+enter' at an appropriate pause in a sentence
> to get wording on the right line
> and avoid wierd auto breaks
> more see below
> If we want people to intersperse, we should guide them to do so. If they
> don't intersperse they need to copy the headings. If they do neither they
> are less likely to get organised and cooperation will be fraught.
> WELCOME!!
> THE HEADINGS AND TIPS BELOW ARE (DESIGNED - delete) TO HELP NEIGHBOURS
> ORGANISE (AN ACTIVITY - delete) TOGETHER ONLINE.
> JUST HIT REPLY TO THIS WELCOME MESSAGE. IN THE SPACE THAT OPENS, CLICK YOUR
> CURSOR IN THE LINE UNDER STEP 1 etc AND START DEVELOPING THE ACTIVITY.
This process no longer applies in the new structure. Alternative
instructions are given
WHEN
> OTHERS GET WHAT YOU HAVE DRAFTED THEY CAN JOIN IN ITS DEVELOPMENT.
I have put: 'Post these steps to get input from others '
> _____________________________________________
> STEP 1 - DESCRIBE THE ACTIVITY
> add a space
OK - done
> STEP 2 - SUGGEST JOBS FOR THE ACTIVITY
> add a space
OK - done
> at any stage (you can take this step further ....) delete
> - complex jobs can be broken down into smaller jobs (that anyone could
> take on - delete)
> -(even - delete) create job steps to help anyone do the job) delete bracket
> - add any missing jobs
> (- jobs can be grouped under headings - delete)
> (we are developing an on line template to help organise these breakdowns)
> add a space
> STEP 3 - PUT THE JOBS IN DATE ORDER
> add a space
As I discussed with you the other day I have tried making all these
tips a priority post. We will need to work through all this t
|
