I, too, have recently encountered two .NET Framework Critical Updates that fail to instal correctly.
I thought this might be a good spot since my problems are similar in nature to some other posts and I've already read and followed some previous advice and it was very helpful.
The two updates are KB974417 and KB951847. They have repeatedly failed over the past month. Through a support link on the Update site, I was able to get few a few emails with Update Support before they turned me over to MS engineering support. From there, they had me do pretty much the same thing as was described in the links here. I used a cleanup tool to completely remove all versions of .NET software from this machine and then re-install each one in the proper order. That worked all the way up until I got to the two updates in question and I experienced the very same failure to install.
MS engineering Support gave me the wave-off telling me that I didn't need those updates and even though I could attempt to hide them, I would be faced with the warnings that I have hidden critcal updates from that point on. Not a happy solution in my opinion.
So I decided to try again and follow the steps outlined in your links as closely as possible. I first tried using the Add/Remove Panel to remnove the .NET software as was described to be the "prefered" method. That removed a couple versions but two components failed to remove that way. So I used the latest version of the cleanup tool that I could find and it removed all the .NET software. Then, I tried that "Windows Install Cleanup Tool" that one of your links suggested but I couldn't find any remaining .NET software to point it to so I just exited that.
I did the reboot and I was about to start installing all the .NET stuff starting with "1.0" and working my way up in order like I did before. This time I was very careful when I downloaded all the .NET things, renaming them as "dotnet1a.exe and dotnet1b.exe and then dotnet2a.exe" and so on. But I forgot to save this newsgroup as a favorite and I wanted to read it again so I attempted to retrace my steps to find it and that entailed going through the windows update site. Well, low and behold, when I went to Windows Update, it said I didn't need ANY Critiacal Updates. No warnings, no nothing!
So, now, my question, why do I have to install ANY of the .NET Framework structure?
I know the only way you might be able to answer that is to know a bit more about my system. And I apoligize up front for being so wordy but I don't know how else to get help without a ton of cross-communication. So, I'll start with my specs and then what I use it for.
Genuine Intel D875BZLK w/800 MHz bus speed OB gigabit LAN & native SATA 150 support 4) 512MB sticks of Corsair Extreme 2.5 CAS RAM 3.2E Prescott Family 15 Model 3 Stepping 3 with Hyper-Threading running at 3192 Mhz. (2) Hitachi Deskstar 80/8/7500 SATA drives running in a RAID-0 array SoundBlaster Audigy-2 ZS Gamer edition 8x AGP Asus V9570 FX5700 128 MB video DH20A4P optical DVD burner Win XP Pro SP3 w/IE 7 & Visual Studio 6.0 ---all just over five years old now---
I built this machine for the sole intent to be able to take all my old VHS tapes and transfer them to DVDs. I wanted a machine that colud process video faster than it could play and this thing does it quite well. I don't like Windows deciding to download and install updates in the midst of my burning a DVD so I prefer to use the Windows Update site manually once a week. I also dabble in a little software creation with Visual Studio because I learned BASIC and QuickBasic when they came out and I've always liked that sort of thing. But I don't do anything commercially and apart from web surfing and email, I use this for my banking and other persoanl stuff including my own website which you can see here. > http://drmcwheels.com <
I have no idea what the .NET Framework structure does for me as I understand its importance for developers is its primary reason for existing. So what problems may I experience if I don't load ANY of the .NET updates? I still attempt to maintain a pretty tight security through a router and then the AVG Internet Security suite and Firewall plus I use SpybotS&D at least monthly. I have never had any breaches in my security so far but then again, who knows what will happen now.
Again, I'm sorry for writing so much but I would really appreciat enay help you can provide. Thanks very much. Dave, (aka, Derf McKensy)
Derf McKensy wrote: > I, too, have recently encountered two .NET Framework Critical > Updates that fail to instal correctly.
> I thought this might be a good spot since my problems are similar > in nature to some other posts and I've already read and followed > some previous advice and it was very helpful.
> The two updates are KB974417 and KB951847. They have repeatedly > failed over the past month. Through a support link on the Update > site, I was able to get few a few emails with Update Support before > they turned me over to MS engineering support. From there, they > had me do pretty much the same thing as was described in the links > here. I used a cleanup tool to completely remove all versions of > .NET software from this machine and then re-install each one in the > proper order. That worked all the way up until I got to the two > updates in question and I experienced the very same failure to > install.
> MS engineering Support gave me the wave-off telling me that I > didn't need those updates and even though I could attempt to hide > them, I would be faced with the warnings that I have hidden critcal > updates from that point on. Not a happy solution in my opinion.
> So I decided to try again and follow the steps outlined in your > links as closely as possible. I first tried using the Add/Remove > Panel to remnove the .NET software as was described to be the > "prefered" method. That removed a couple versions but two > components failed to remove that way. So I used the latest version > of the cleanup tool that I could find and it removed all the .NET > software. Then, I tried that "Windows Install Cleanup Tool" that > one of your links suggested but I couldn't find any remaining .NET > software to point it to so I just exited that.
> I did the reboot and I was about to start installing all the .NET > stuff starting with "1.0" and working my way up in order like I did > before. This time I was very careful when I downloaded all the > .NET things, renaming them as "dotnet1a.exe and dotnet1b.exe and > then dotnet2a.exe" and so on. But I forgot to save this newsgroup > as a favorite and I wanted to read it again so I attempted to > retrace my steps to find it and that entailed going through the > windows update site. Well, low and behold, when I went to Windows > Update, it said I didn't need ANY Critiacal Updates. No warnings, > no nothing!
> So, now, my question, why do I have to install ANY of the .NET > Framework structure?
> I know the only way you might be able to answer that is to know a > bit more about my system. And I apoligize up front for being so > wordy but I don't know how else to get help without a ton of > cross-communication. So, I'll start with my specs and then what I > use it for.
> Genuine Intel D875BZLK w/800 MHz bus speed > OB gigabit LAN & native SATA 150 support > 4) 512MB sticks of Corsair Extreme 2.5 CAS RAM > 3.2E Prescott Family 15 Model 3 Stepping 3 > with Hyper-Threading running at 3192 Mhz. > (2) Hitachi Deskstar 80/8/7500 SATA drives > running in a RAID-0 array > SoundBlaster Audigy-2 ZS Gamer edition > 8x AGP Asus V9570 FX5700 128 MB video > DH20A4P optical DVD burner > Win XP Pro SP3 w/IE 7 & Visual Studio 6.0 > ---all just over five years old now---
> I built this machine for the sole intent to be able to take all my > old VHS tapes and transfer them to DVDs. I wanted a machine that > colud process video faster than it could play and this thing does > it quite well. I don't like Windows deciding to download and > install updates in the midst of my burning a DVD so I prefer to use > the Windows Update site manually once a week. I also dabble in a > little software creation with Visual Studio because I learned BASIC > and QuickBasic when they came out and I've always liked that sort > of thing. But I don't do anything commercially and apart from web > surfing and email, I use this for my banking and other persoanl > stuff including my own website which you can see here. > > http://drmcwheels.com <
> I have no idea what the .NET Framework structure does for me as I > understand its importance for developers is its primary reason for > existing. So what problems may I experience if I don't load ANY of > the .NET updates? I still attempt to maintain a pretty tight > security through a router and then the AVG Internet Security suite > and Firewall plus I use SpybotS&D at least monthly. > I have never had any breaches in my security so far but then again, > who knows what will happen now.
> Again, I'm sorry for writing so much but I would really appreciat > enay help you can provide. Thanks very much. Dave, (aka, Derf > McKensy)
It is entirely possible that you have nothing that needs the .NET Framework of any version.
However - your understanding is not completely on-target. The .NET Framework may be used by developers - but they have developed things and some of those things - you might use. SOme video card manufacturers use it in their video card software, for example. Truthfully - anything could use one version of the .NET framework or another.
So my question from you - have you tested all of the software you might use? Have any version of Microsoft Office installed? Opened, ran and tested any of the Microsoft Office products? Used Internet Explorer much lately? What email client do you use? Try all your software - see if it all works - if it begins to give you issues - could be related to having no .NET Frameworks.
Although - now that you have none - you could install each one manually as the instructions I have see tell you to do - to get back up to speed. I'd think sooner or later - you will just be hurting yourself - although it is possible your netbook-like use of your PC might benefit you for a long time.
"Derf McKensy" <DerfMcKe...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:6B0C301A-88D5-4973-AAA9-43E9493DBF71@microsoft.com... > I, too, have recently encountered two .NET Framework Critical Updates that > fail to instal correctly.
> I thought this might be a good spot since my problems are similar in nature > to some other posts and I've already read and followed some previous advice > and it was very helpful.
So, you've fixed your popup problem? ; ) And did the web interface index my answer to your original Me too!?... No. Typical.
So I'll try to build a link to it from your References: header
E.g. find one similar and replace its &tid= parameter with one of those. Fortunately I don't have to worry about lowercasing the hex characters from the Message-ID...
> It is entirely possible that you have nothing that needs the .NET Framework > of any version.
> However - your understanding is not completely on-target. The .NET > Framework may be used by developers - but they have developed things and > some of those things - you might use. SOme video card manufacturers use it > in their video card software, for example. Truthfully - anything could use > one version of the .NET framework or another.
> So my question from you - have you tested all of the software you might use? > Have any version of Microsoft Office installed? Opened, ran and tested any > of the Microsoft Office products? Used Internet Explorer much lately? What > email client do you use? Try all your software - see if it all works - if > it begins to give you issues - could be related to having no .NET > Frameworks.
> Although - now that you have none - you could install each one manually as > the instructions I have see tell you to do - to get back up to speed. I'd > think sooner or later - you will just be hurting yourself - although it is > possible your netbook-like use of your PC might benefit you for a long time.
I am really surprised at how well everything seems to be working. I have MS Office 2000 installed and use Outlook for my mail. That seems to be running normally. I use Word a lot and that seems fine as well. I keep my budget on an Excel spreadsheet and that still works. I use IE7 exclusively for my browsing and have yet to encounter any issues. I use Forte Agent for a newsreader and would have used that to post here except the Windows Update site led me here via my browser so I just stayed with it this time not realizing there was much difference.
The first time around, I went through the cleanup process which removed all the .NET versions and I did re-install them, one by one, and when I got to the two updates that originally failed to install, they failed again. Still not sure what the cause is other than the possibility that I might have installed IE8, then SP3 for XP, and then removed IE8. My other computers don't have this issue and have similar setups other than this one possible combination of events.
I guess it will take some time to try everything but I did notice that according to my Add/Remove Program list, I still have MS SilverLight installed. I guess, for now, I'll just keep trying each piece of software that I have.
Hey thanks, and you're right, I have Forte Agent but the Update site let me here via my browser so I just stayed with it. I am very puzzled because everything seems to be working. But I guess I have more software to test. I figure it will be obvious when something doesn't work or points out the need for some .NET component. So, I guess my real question is whether there might be hidden security issues that I might be making myself vulnerable to without knowing it.
> E.g. find one similar and replace its &tid= parameter with one of those. > Fortunately I don't have to worry about lowercasing the hex characters > from the Message-ID...
Derf McKensy wrote: > Thank you so much for the reply.
> I am really surprised at how well everything seems to be working. > I have MS Office 2000 installed and use Outlook for my mail. That > seems to be running normally. I use Word a lot and that seems fine > as well. I keep my budget on an Excel spreadsheet and that still > works. I use IE7 exclusively for my browsing and have yet to > encounter any issues. I use Forte Agent for a newsreader and would > have used that to post here except the Windows Update site led me > here via my browser so I just stayed with it this time not > realizing there was much difference.
> The first time around, I went through the cleanup process which > removed all the .NET versions and I did re-install them, one by > one, and when I got to the two updates that originally failed to > install, they failed again. Still not sure what the cause is other > than the possibility that I might have installed IE8, then SP3 for > XP, and then removed IE8. My other computers don't have this issue > and have similar setups other than this one possible combination of > events.
> I guess it will take some time to try everything but I did notice > that according to my Add/Remove Program list, I still have MS > SilverLight installed. I guess, for now, I'll just keep trying > each piece of software that I have.
The reason everything is working for you is likely the age of the products you are using. Office 2000... That is a few generations behind (2000, XP/2002, 2003, 2007...) I would personally suggest sticking with IE7 if you are sticking with Windows XP.
It's entirely plausible you will not ever need any of the .NET Framework's. Then again - if you ever do - whatever it is should tell you before it installs (or as it installs) that it has this pre-requisite. ;-)
"Derf McKensy" <DerfMcKe...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:5F861B8B-020F-42A0-8569-B861CCA943A1@microsoft.com... > So, I guess my real question is whether there might > be hidden security issues that I might be making myself vulnerable > to without knowing it.
You could try reading the associated technet security bulletin with each KB article...
I think one thing to keep in mind is that once a vulnerability is known exploits of it will be tried just to see if users who are slow to update can be caught by them.
Update!!! I have yet to find any software that I use that fails to work because I don't have the .NET components installed but I am posting this reply for two reasons. First, I wanted to see if I can post a replay via my newsreader, Forte Agent, and secondly, because I just received a very impressive email from Microsoft support. The support person that I was talking to and wanted to close the case wrote back to inform me that while he doesn't actually work for MS but is a support person that MS out-sourses and he feels very bad that he hasn't been able to solve this problem. He went on to say that now, he doesn't think it has anything to do with a problem with my computer as much as it is a problem with the update itself. He feels that MS has the problem and has yet to address it.
I made a comment in a previous correspondence with him that I may have to do a complete system re-install to get rid of the warning messages and he responded by saying that he thinks it is a little pre-mature to do a system reinstall and that I should give MS a little more time. But then, he went on to say that if it came down to the need for a reinstall, that he would provide me with a new XP Pro SP2 disk along with a new product key. I told him that was a very gracious offer but that I still had the XP Pro SP1 disk that I purchased years ago and that I thought I could slipstream SP3 into it. But his offer went a long way to restore my faith in his efforts.
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:59:08 -0600, "Shenan Stanley"
>Derf McKensy wrote: >> I, too, have recently encountered two .NET Framework Critical >> Updates that fail to instal correctly.
>> I thought this might be a good spot since my problems are similar >> in nature to some other posts and I've already read and followed >> some previous advice and it was very helpful.
>> The two updates are KB974417 and KB951847. They have repeatedly >> failed over the past month. Through a support link on the Update >> site, I was able to get few a few emails with Update Support before >> they turned me over to MS engineering support. From there, they >> had me do pretty much the same thing as was described in the links >> here. I used a cleanup tool to completely remove all versions of >> .NET software from this machine and then re-install each one in the >> proper order. That worked all the way up until I got to the two >> updates in question and I experienced the very same failure to >> install.
>> MS engineering Support gave me the wave-off telling me that I >> didn't need those updates and even though I could attempt to hide >> them, I would be faced with the warnings that I have hidden critcal >> updates from that point on. Not a happy solution in my opinion.
>> So I decided to try again and follow the steps outlined in your >> links as closely as possible. I first tried using the Add/Remove >> Panel to remnove the .NET software as was described to be the >> "prefered" method. That removed a couple versions but two >> components failed to remove that way. So I used the latest version >> of the cleanup tool that I could find and it removed all the .NET >> software. Then, I tried that "Windows Install Cleanup Tool" that >> one of your links suggested but I couldn't find any remaining .NET >> software to point it to so I just exited that.
>> I did the reboot and I was about to start installing all the .NET >> stuff starting with "1.0" and working my way up in order like I did >> before. This time I was very careful when I downloaded all the >> .NET things, renaming them as "dotnet1a.exe and dotnet1b.exe and >> then dotnet2a.exe" and so on. But I forgot to save this newsgroup >> as a favorite and I wanted to read it again so I attempted to >> retrace my steps to find it and that entailed going through the >> windows update site. Well, low and behold, when I went to Windows >> Update, it said I didn't need ANY Critiacal Updates. No warnings, >> no nothing!
>> So, now, my question, why do I have to install ANY of the .NET >> Framework structure?
>> I know the only way you might be able to answer that is to know a >> bit more about my system. And I apoligize up front for being so >> wordy but I don't know how else to get help without a ton of >> cross-communication. So, I'll start with my specs and then what I >> use it for.
>> Genuine Intel D875BZLK w/800 MHz bus speed >> OB gigabit LAN & native SATA 150 support >> 4) 512MB sticks of Corsair Extreme 2.5 CAS RAM >> 3.2E Prescott Family 15 Model 3 Stepping 3 >> with Hyper-Threading running at 3192 Mhz. >> (2) Hitachi Deskstar 80/8/7500 SATA drives >> running in a RAID-0 array >> SoundBlaster Audigy-2 ZS Gamer edition >> 8x AGP Asus V9570 FX5700 128 MB video >> DH20A4P optical DVD burner >> Win XP Pro SP3 w/IE 7 & Visual Studio 6.0 >> ---all just over five years old now---
>> I built this machine for the sole intent to be able to take all my >> old VHS tapes and transfer them to DVDs. I wanted a machine that >> colud process video faster than it could play and this thing does >> it quite well. I don't like Windows deciding to download and >> install updates in the midst of my burning a DVD so I prefer to use >> the Windows Update site manually once a week. I also dabble in a >> little software creation with Visual Studio because I learned BASIC >> and QuickBasic when they came out and I've always liked that sort >> of thing. But I don't do anything commercially and apart from web >> surfing and email, I use this for my banking and other persoanl >> stuff including my own website which you can see here. > >> http://drmcwheels.com <
>> I have no idea what the .NET Framework structure does for me as I >> understand its importance for developers is its primary reason for >> existing. So what problems may I experience if I don't load ANY of >> the .NET updates? I still attempt to maintain a pretty tight >> security through a router and then the AVG Internet Security suite >> and Firewall plus I use SpybotS&D at least monthly. >> I have never had any breaches in my security so far but then again, >> who knows what will happen now.
>> Again, I'm sorry for writing so much but I would really appreciat >> enay help you can provide. Thanks very much. Dave, (aka, Derf >> McKensy)
>It is entirely possible that you have nothing that needs the .NET Framework >of any version.
>However - your understanding is not completely on-target. The .NET >Framework may be used by developers - but they have developed things and >some of those things - you might use. SOme video card manufacturers use it >in their video card software, for example. Truthfully - anything could use >one version of the .NET framework or another.
>So my question from you - have you tested all of the software you might use? >Have any version of Microsoft Office installed? Opened, ran and tested any >of the Microsoft Office products? Used Internet Explorer much lately? What >email client do you use? Try all your software - see if it all works - if >it begins to give you issues - could be related to having no .NET >Frameworks.
>Although - now that you have none - you could install each one manually as >the instructions I have see tell you to do - to get back up to speed. I'd >think sooner or later - you will just be hurting yourself - although it is >possible your netbook-like use of your PC might benefit you for a long time.
That's a good point and I try to read between the lines on all those updates but it's not really clear whether or not you open yourself up to some type of vulnerability merely by installing any .NET components that then need constant updating. I don't think I have ever seen any comments on how safe a system is without any of the .NET structure installed.
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 01:11:58 -0500, "Robert Aldwinckle"
>> So, I guess my real question is whether there might >> be hidden security issues that I might be making myself vulnerable >> to without knowing it.
>You could try reading the associated technet security bulletin >with each KB article...
>I think one thing to keep in mind is that once a vulnerability is known >exploits of it will be tried just to see if users who are slow to update >can be caught by them.
That's what I'm hoping for. And I am also hoping that I am not leaving any invisible vulnerabilities that could be exploited without my knowledge. Thanks for the reply.
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:51:18 -0600, "Shenan Stanley"
>Derf McKensy wrote: >> Thank you so much for the reply.
>> I am really surprised at how well everything seems to be working. >> I have MS Office 2000 installed and use Outlook for my mail. That >> seems to be running normally. I use Word a lot and that seems fine >> as well. I keep my budget on an Excel spreadsheet and that still >> works. I use IE7 exclusively for my browsing and have yet to >> encounter any issues. I use Forte Agent for a newsreader and would >> have used that to post here except the Windows Update site led me >> here via my browser so I just stayed with it this time not >> realizing there was much difference.
>> The first time around, I went through the cleanup process which >> removed all the .NET versions and I did re-install them, one by >> one, and when I got to the two updates that originally failed to >> install, they failed again. Still not sure what the cause is other >> than the possibility that I might have installed IE8, then SP3 for >> XP, and then removed IE8. My other computers don't have this issue >> and have similar setups other than this one possible combination of >> events.
>> I guess it will take some time to try everything but I did notice >> that according to my Add/Remove Program list, I still have MS >> SilverLight installed. I guess, for now, I'll just keep trying >> each piece of software that I have.
>The reason everything is working for you is likely the age of the products >you are using. Office 2000... That is a few generations behind (2000, >XP/2002, 2003, 2007...) I would personally suggest sticking with IE7 if you >are sticking with Windows XP.
>It's entirely plausible you will not ever need any of the .NET Framework's. >Then again - if you ever do - whatever it is should tell you before it >installs (or as it installs) that it has this pre-requisite. ;-)
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