>> Mexico has a high overall murder rate because drug gangs kill each >> other on a routine basis, by the thousands. If it where not for their >> turf wars, Mexico's murder rate would hardly be noteworthy.
> That is an interesting theory, but it seems to me that if Mexican gangs > were fighting a turf war the gang members would be killing each other, not > tourists. Most of it is just plain assault and robbery carried out by > thugs and punks who have no respect for the law and who consider gringos > as > easy pickings. The police are useless because they are so poorly paid and > poorly trained that corruption is rife.
Most of the crime in Mexico, as it pertains to foreigners, is indeed theft and extortion - robberies of various kinds, or kidnappings. Considering that about a million Canadians visit Mexico every year, the murder rate of Canadians _there_ is just about what one would expect if they spent the same amount of time _here_. In fact, it's bloody low.
As for the crime that matters - the robberies and kidnappings - the travel advisories by both Canada and the US sound pretty much like the advice any sensible individual should follow at home. One that really, really stood out: most of the crimes against tourists in Mexico are against people on their lonesome. As with anywhere else, a person will greatly reduce their chances of being a victim by (1) not doing stupid shit, and (2) being with other people. I have no doubt that if you got the details on many of the Canadian tourists robbed or assaulted in Mexico every year, you would shake your head and go "Jesus Christ, I wouldn't behave like that in Halifax, let alone in some Mexico City bar district after dark..." What's funny is that probably most of the people involved would _not_ behave that way back in TO, Halifax, Vancouver, Montreal, Edmonton etc...but they leave their street sense back in storage when on vacation.
As you put it - gringos being perceived as easy pickings - I suspect that we probably are, as a rule. Whose fault is that?
Disregard the lunatic blather posted by the racist hiding behind the "Viper" 'handle' and especially the <rattler_stom...@yahoo.com> email address. As seen within the verifiable factual data compiled immediately below, that address is but one of over 50+ TROLL identities used by Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III to transmit harassment and abuse throughout the internet.
Avoid his race-baiting at all costs. He attempts to infuriate you to the point that you state something disparaging about him after which he claims justification for creating a lame TROLL alias of your internet identity with which to further harass and malign you during the commision of his innate maliciousness.
Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III is the ultimate L-O-S-E-R and social ingrate. The fact that he has transmitted a major portion of his years-long ongoing internet abuse while in the employ of Moffitt Corporation in Jacksonville Beach, Florida is extremely reprehensible on the part of both of them.
Hopefully, someone at Moffitt Corporation, 1351 13th Avenue South, Suite 130, Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250, http://www.moffitthvac.com, was doing something constructive while concurrently, Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III (aka, PirateJ...@aol.com, j...@buccaneerpress.com piratej...@buccaneerpress.com, BuccaneerPr...@aol.com, Upda...@BuccaneerPublishing.com, matanzastrad...@aol.com, piratejo...@yahoo.com, jgil...@moffitthvac.com, warp12...@aol.com, piratejohn...@aol.com, BuccaneerJ...@aol.com, Pirate...@aol.com, WarpTwe...@aol.com, JWGil...@aol.com, TrollWa...@hush.com, BillyRighte...@aol.com, GodIsSpan...@aol.com, Mr.G...@aol.com, FreddyGo...@aol.com or any of the following in this partial list of additional known aliases: Hoo...@hush.com, david_zee...@yahoo.com, JHD_the_piss...@insignificant.org, rednecks_are_stoo...@yahoo.com, scipios_...@yahoo.com, Karen_Anderson_smells_like_f...@yahoo.com, rattler_stom...@yahoo.com, Ginger_Germ...@yahoo.com, Alcibia...@hush.com, retarded_little_billy_cme...@yahoo.com, F_Za...@deadmusicians.com, village_idiot_cme...@yahoo.com, Fat_Bill_Cme...@yahoo.com, milhouse_authent...@yahoo.com, Billy_Cmelaks_da...@hushmail.com, boytoy_ray_oh...@yahoo.com, your_worse_nightm...@mac.hush.com, Douglas_L...@hushmail.com, Yellow-Eyed-Fer...@hushmail.com, auto242...@hushmail.com, bresner@eatmyshorts, bres...@nerd.net, bres...@retards.com, Milho...@deadmusicians.com, TeamConfu...@aol.com, which are all associated with http://www.buccaneerpublishing.com/, http://www.BuccaneerPress.com, http://www.PirateJohn.com, http://www.RidingIntoHistory.org, http://groups.google.com/group/jimmy_buffett-moderated, as well the Atlantic Beach Vintage Motorcycle Club http://www.ABVMC.com for which Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III boasts of being its "el presidente") who resides at 12526 Agatite Road, Jacksonville, Florida 32258 while sweetheart scamming the house's alleged owner Deborah Lynch (aka, deblync...@comcast.net of http://www.deblynchrealtor.com) who is not worried about her privacy as stated in usenet "Message-ID: <1106845004.866096.13...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>" and instructed him to "give the jackasses both barrels", posted the following via one of his 50+ aliases...
Viper wrote:
From: "Viper" <rattler_stom...@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.mexico,mex.turismo,alt.true-crime,ont.general Subject: Re: Vacation in Mexico? - no thanks ..... Date: 16 Jan 2007 06:21:41 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 28 Message-ID: <1168957299.705595.128...@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com> References: <eoeu20$qr...@theodyn.ncf.ca> <1168834645.501648.93...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.197 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1168957315 6310 127.0.0.1 (16 Jan 2007 14:21:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-ab...@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:21:55 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <1168834645.501648.93...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; AOL 9.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) X-HTTP-Via: HTTP/1.1 (Velocity/1.3.32 [uScMs f p eN:t cCMp s ]), HTTP/1.1 Turboweb [rtc-tc094 8.4.1], HTTP/1.1 cache-rtc-ad03.proxy.aol.com[98A364C5] (Traffic-Server/6.1.5 [uScM]) Complaints-To: groups-ab...@google.com Injection-Info: 11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com; posting-host=152.163.100.197; posting-account=ol8mhw0AAADpWFEZEoBfQe9JQP0BlpMs
> > (You are a welfare case who uses a freenet to help the most needy of > > our citizens at taxpayer expense. You can't afford a vacation and > > probably have never left Ontario in your life.)
> Sounds about like the truth.
> There are thousands if not millions of people that go on vacation in > all parts of Mexico every year and have a great time. Racists and > silly people with small minds would never go anyway, so what's the big > deal? That just means a savings of resources for those of us who are > more deserving and can enjoy what is basically a tropical paradise in > many areas of Mexico.
> As far as some kid getting beat up, if that indeed is what happened, it > happens all the time in the US and Canada. Think that people are > always happy with Canadian and US cops and their investigations? Then > you are naive to the extreme.
As is typical of the lowlife scumbag, you are all being TROLLed by Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III of Jacksonville, Florida while he is being paid by Moffitt Corporation in Jacksonville Beach, Florida.
He posted the previous racist message associated with the following headers: -------------------------------- From: "Viper" <rattler_stom...@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.mexico,mex.turismo,alt.true-crime,ont.general Subject: Re: Vacation in Mexico? - no thanks ..... Date: 16 Jan 2007 06:21:41 -0800 Message-ID: <1168957299.705595.128550@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com> --------------------------------
And now he's posted as this known TROLL alias he has also used numerous times:
From: Alcibia...@hush.com Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.mexico,mex.turismo Subject: Re: Vacation in Mexico? - no thanks ..... Date: 17 Jan 2007 03:02:00 -0800 Message-ID: <1169031720.390227.54300@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com> --------------------------------
Here is compiled factual data that can be verified as being associated with the malicious miscreant, Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III of Jacksonville, Florida while he is being paid by Moffitt Corporation in Jacksonville Beach, Florida:
Hopefully, someone at Moffitt Corporation, 1351 13th Avenue South, Suite 130, Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250, http://www.moffitthvac.com, was doing something constructive while concurrently, Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III (aka, PirateJ...@aol.com, j...@buccaneerpress.com piratej...@buccaneerpress.com, BuccaneerPr...@aol.com, Upda...@BuccaneerPublishing.com, matanzastrad...@aol.com, piratejo...@yahoo.com, jgil...@moffitthvac.com, warp12...@aol.com, piratejohn...@aol.com, BuccaneerJ...@aol.com, Pirate...@aol.com, WarpTwe...@aol.com, JWGil...@aol.com, TrollWa...@hush.com, BillyRighte...@aol.com, GodIsSpan...@aol.com, Mr.G...@aol.com, FreddyGo...@aol.com or any of the following in this partial list of additional known aliases: Hoo...@hush.com, david_zee...@yahoo.com, JHD_the_piss...@insignificant.org, rednecks_are_stoo...@yahoo.com, scipios_...@yahoo.com, Karen_Anderson_smells_like_f...@yahoo.com, rattler_stom...@yahoo.com, Ginger_Germ...@yahoo.com, Alcibia...@hush.com, retarded_little_billy_cme...@yahoo.com, F_Za...@deadmusicians.com, village_idiot_cme...@yahoo.com, Fat_Bill_Cme...@yahoo.com, milhouse_authent...@yahoo.com, Billy_Cmelaks_da...@hushmail.com, boytoy_ray_oh...@yahoo.com, your_worse_nightm...@mac.hush.com, Douglas_L...@hushmail.com, Yellow-Eyed-Fer...@hushmail.com, auto242...@hushmail.com, bresner@eatmyshorts, bres...@nerd.net, bres...@retards.com, Milho...@deadmusicians.com, TeamConfu...@aol.com, which are all associated with http://www.buccaneerpublishing.com/, http://www.BuccaneerPress.com, http://www.PirateJohn.com, http://www.RidingIntoHistory.org, http://groups.google.com/group/jimmy_buffett-moderated, as well the Atlantic Beach Vintage Motorcycle Club http://www.ABVMC.com for which Pirate John Wesley Gilmer III boasts of being its "el presidente") who resides at 12526 Agatite Road, Jacksonville, Florida 32258 while sweetheart scamming the house's alleged owner Deborah Lynch (aka, deblync...@comcast.net of http://www.deblynchrealtor.com) who is not worried about her privacy as stated in usenet "Message-ID: <1106845004.866096.13...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>" and instructed him to "give the jackasses both barrels", posted the following via one of his 50+ aliases...
SSS333 wrote: > Disregard the lunatic blather posted by the racist hiding behind the > "Viper" 'handle' and especially the <rattler_stom...@yahoo.com> email > address.
He's a "racist" only because he doesn't buy into your white supremacist BS, Cmelak. You Mexican-hating morons need to go back to burning crosses and stay out of polite society.
~~
My name is William Bill Cmelak. I am a fat and stupid shithead. I have been stalking another guy for almost three years because I am jealous of him and because he hurt my widdle feelings over three years ago and I just cannot get over the pain. I live in an old mobile home here:
William Cmelak N9340 Pickerel Creek Rd Pearson, WI 54462-8140
I drive a 25 year old military truck because that's all that I can afford. I flunked out of trade school. I spend all of my time at my computer using an old dial up connection. The rest of the time I watch
television 24/7. No one will give me the respect that I think that I deserve.
Two years ago I was approached by an old woman named Karen Anderson who
talked me into helping her stalk and troll this guy. She had had a crush on him and he kicked her to the curb. She drove to his town and followed him around for two days without him knowing it. She is also jealous of him. Anderson has stalked several other men before.
She lives at:
Karen Anderson 3590 Narrows View Lane NE #102 Bremerton, WA 98310
Anderson and I are both addicted to stalking. We know that what we do is wrong, and we see this other guy kick our asses all the time, but we
just don't have the willpower to stop.
I am so jealous, jealous, JEALOUS of that guy that it makes me want to BURST. I spend all of my time researching what he does, where he lives. Hell, I even follow his eBay account.
This dude that I hate is popular in his town and community and I HATE that. So I make up crap about him and his girlfriend and post it to newsgroups and generally make a nusiance out of myself. Most of what I
make up is a complete figment of my imagination but if I repeat my lies
often enough maybe someone will believe them.
This guy just drives me CRAZY. He's president of a motorcycle club, he's involved with several charities. Everyone that meets him seems to
like him. I am so damned jealous that I cannot stand it.
Did I mention that I am jealous?
He lives in a warm climate, and I am stuck in the sticks of Wisconsin, barely able to afford heating oil.
He travels all the time and I haven't been out of Wisconsin in years.
He is active, and my health issues keep me from leaving the house.
He motorcycles all over the country and into Mexico and I cannot ride any more. I hate that. And I hate those damned Mexicans, even though that doesn't make me a racist because I said so.
This guy makes more money than I do and that can't be right. I just know there's something wrong there.
He has a girlfriend that loves him and takes care of him and I haven't had a date with a woman for over 10 years. And when he was single he got laid all of the time. Now that's not right either.
> >> > > Do the police in Nova Scotia try to cover up crimes so that tourists > >> > > don't stay away?
> >> > You racist clowns haven't provided any proof that happens in Mexico > >> > either, only rumour and inuendo.
> >> there is proof, Mexican police being removed from their jobs, and police > >> stations being shut down due to corruption and pay off's for Mexican drug > >> dealers
> >I've always wondered about American cops. I mean, after all, most of > >the drug that runs through Mexico, causing police corruption, goes on > >to run within the US. This drug is obviously making its way from the > >border into every street corner, school, and club in the US. How come > >American cops can't stop it? The way I figure, either they are > >absolutely incompetent, or as corrupt as Mexican cops. Which one is it?
> American cops only want to stop a percentage. If they stop all the > drugs then they face budget cuts and they can't get "all the toys".
Really :) Well, it THAT was the case, even worse: corrupt AND stupid.
> >> > > Do the police in Nova Scotia try to cover up crimes so that tourists > >> > > don't stay away?
> >> > You racist clowns haven't provided any proof that happens in Mexico > >> > either, only rumour and inuendo.
> >> there is proof, Mexican police being removed from their jobs, and police > >> stations being shut down due to corruption and pay off's for Mexican drug > >> dealers
> >I've always wondered about American cops. I mean, after all, most of > >the drug that runs through Mexico, causing police corruption, goes on > >to run within the US. This drug is obviously making its way from the > >border into every street corner, school, and club in the US. How come > >American cops can't stop it? The way I figure, either they are > >absolutely incompetent, or as corrupt as Mexican cops. Which one is it?
> American cops only want to stop a percentage. If they stop all the > drugs then they face budget cuts and they can't get "all the toys".
Really :) Well, it THAT was the case, even worse: corrupt AND stupid.
There's an idea that American crime statistics are under reported compared to Canada, Europe, Finnscandia and the UK due to how many they have.
Though that may be true, it's still a valid assumption that police forces bear a valid balance between over reporting crime to increase their funding, whilst at the same time not reporting it too much because it represents how they suck at what they are doing for a living, which means that their Chiefs and Mayors will lose their jobs due to being incompetent.
Personally, I think that the two evils balance each other out and we should assume their reports to be accurate.
> > >> > > Do the police in Nova Scotia try to cover up crimes so that tourists > > >> > > don't stay away?
> > >> > You racist clowns haven't provided any proof that happens in Mexico > > >> > either, only rumour and inuendo.
> > >> there is proof, Mexican police being removed from their jobs, and police > > >> stations being shut down due to corruption and pay off's for Mexican drug > > >> dealers
> > >I've always wondered about American cops. I mean, after all, most of > > >the drug that runs through Mexico, causing police corruption, goes on > > >to run within the US. This drug is obviously making its way from the > > >border into every street corner, school, and club in the US. How come > > >American cops can't stop it? The way I figure, either they are > > >absolutely incompetent, or as corrupt as Mexican cops. Which one is it?
> > American cops only want to stop a percentage. If they stop all the > > drugs then they face budget cuts and they can't get "all the toys".
> Really :) > Well, it THAT was the case, even worse: corrupt AND stupid.
> There's an idea that American crime statistics are under reported compared to > Canada, Europe, Finnscandia and the UK due to how many they have.
> Though that may be true, it's still a valid assumption that police forces bear a > valid balance between over reporting crime to increase their funding, whilst at > the same time not reporting it too much because it represents how they suck at > what they are doing for a living, which means that their Chiefs and Mayors will > lose their jobs due to being incompetent.
> Personally, I think that the two evils balance each other out and we should > assume their reports to be accurate.
Police and government work from the play book. They both do all they can to maintain a public dependence on their monopolized service, which is manufactured and manipulated via a contrast of exaggerated fear and high profile "successes". Corruption is conversely downplayed through the illusion of change or reform more akin to musical chairs. Stats are selectively manipulated to promote the target of new legislative powers, so they appear to be actively working to protect, while increasing budgets and government powers.
The public falls for it every time, and corruption gets more and more systemic.
[ SNIP ] > Police and government work from the play book. They both do all they can > to > maintain a public dependence on their monopolized service, which is > manufactured and manipulated via a contrast of exaggerated fear and high > profile "successes". Corruption is conversely downplayed through the > illusion of change or reform more akin to musical chairs. Stats are > selectively manipulated to promote the target of new legislative powers, > so > they appear to be actively working to protect, while increasing budgets > and > government powers.
> The public falls for it every time, and corruption gets more and more > systemic.
[ SNIP ]
What makes you think that each and every one of us isn't working from a "play book"? If I were the owner of a company, I'd have a marketing strategy for my product or service. Probably not high on the list of things to do would be a strategy to put myself out of business. Similarly, as an employee, you don't want to be too good - you may just end up working yourself out of work. So please don't blame just the cops for this mindset - we all have it.
With respect to the police, do you have a dependence on them? I don't. If they went Poof tomorrow I can't see how my daily affairs would change one iota. If assaults and robberies went up I'd start toting a shotgun...seeing as how there'd be no police I don't think I'd be arrested for that.
And the police hardly manufacture fear. A typical member of the public hears about some of the high-profile stuff through the tube or the newsrags - shootings, drug busts, rapes, high-level theft rings, that kind of thing. Most of these crimes are immediately identifiable as "if you mix with the wrong people your life expectancy drops" kind of events. For the scarier ones, like home invasions or swarmings, what do you suggest? Don't report them? I don't see how that helps much. Do you find _yourself_ in an exaggerated state of fear due to police reporting of crimes? I myself don't. I suggest that if you are in such a state, consider talking to a psychiatrist, who will probably diagnose paranoia.
> [ SNIP ] > > Police and government work from the play book. They both do all they can > > to > > maintain a public dependence on their monopolized service, which is > > manufactured and manipulated via a contrast of exaggerated fear and high > > profile "successes". Corruption is conversely downplayed through the > > illusion of change or reform more akin to musical chairs. Stats are > > selectively manipulated to promote the target of new legislative powers, > > so > > they appear to be actively working to protect, while increasing budgets > > and > > government powers.
> > The public falls for it every time, and corruption gets more and more > > systemic. > [ SNIP ]
> What makes you think that each and every one of us isn't working from a > "play book"? If I were the owner of a company, I'd have a marketing strategy > for my product or service. Probably not high on the list of things to do > would be a strategy to put myself out of business. Similarly, as an > employee, you don't want to be too good - you may just end up working > yourself out of work. So please don't blame just the cops for this mindset - > we all have it.
> With respect to the police, do you have a dependence on them? I don't. If > they went Poof tomorrow I can't see how my daily affairs would change one > iota. If assaults and robberies went up I'd start toting a shotgun...seeing > as how there'd be no police I don't think I'd be arrested for that.
> And the police hardly manufacture fear. A typical member of the public hears > about some of the high-profile stuff through the tube or the newsrags - > shootings, drug busts, rapes, high-level theft rings, that kind of thing. > Most of these crimes are immediately identifiable as "if you mix with the > wrong people your life expectancy drops" kind of events. For the scarier > ones, like home invasions or swarmings, what do you suggest? Don't report > them? I don't see how that helps much. Do you find _yourself_ in an > exaggerated state of fear due to police reporting of crimes? I myself don't. > I suggest that if you are in such a state, consider talking to a > psychiatrist, who will probably diagnose paranoia.
> [ SNIP ] > > Police and government work from the play book. They both do all they can > > to > > maintain a public dependence on their monopolized service, which is > > manufactured and manipulated via a contrast of exaggerated fear and high > > profile "successes". Corruption is conversely downplayed through the > > illusion of change or reform more akin to musical chairs. Stats are > > selectively manipulated to promote the target of new legislative powers, > > so > > they appear to be actively working to protect, while increasing budgets > > and > > government powers.
> > The public falls for it every time, and corruption gets more and more > > systemic. > [ SNIP ]
> What makes you think that each and every one of us isn't working from a > "play book"? If I were the owner of a company, I'd have a marketing strategy > for my product or service.
The key is motive....... All the companies i worked for were oriented toward customer satisfaction and quality control, not putting perfume on a pig.
In any case, companies still have to compete in a relatively free market, so that is yet another moderating factor.
Probably not high on the list of things to do
> would be a strategy to put myself out of business. Similarly, as an > employee, you don't want to be too good - you may just end up working > yourself out of work. So please don't blame just the cops for this mindset - > we all have it.
To some extent, i agree. It is part of being human isn't it? That is why free markets are the best way to get the best service, and policing is just another service, and the public should have a choice if they want it. Just watch the service improve.
> With respect to the police, do you have a dependence on them? I don't.
To the extent that they are an aggressive monopoly, we all have some dependance on them. Unless of course one takes the time to construct an effective alternative.
If
> they went Poof tomorrow I can't see how my daily affairs would change one > iota. If assaults and robberies went up I'd start toting a shotgun...seeing > as how there'd be no police I don't think I'd be arrested for that.
Unless you are pointing it at your customers, you shouldn't be arrested for that, regardless.
> And the police hardly manufacture fear.
We both agreed it was part of their "effective marketing".... of course they do it, the only question is one of degree.
> A typical member of the public hears > about some of the high-profile stuff through the tube or the newsrags - > shootings, drug busts, rapes, high-level theft rings, that kind of thing. > Most of these crimes are immediately identifiable as "if you mix with the > wrong people your life expectancy drops" kind of events. For the scarier > ones, like home invasions or swarmings, what do you suggest? Don't report > them?
Sure they should report them. But are they being reported out of a concern for the people, or as a motivation for police dependence? If the police were so damn concerned about the safety of the public, why do they arrest law abiding citizens who defend themselves and their property within the parameters of the common law?
>I don't see how that helps much. Do you find _yourself_ in an > exaggerated state of fear due to police reporting of crimes? I myself
don't.
I know many people that do - many of which are the contradictory gender, but not all.
> I suggest that if you are in such a state, consider talking to a > psychiatrist, who will probably diagnose paranoia.
>> [ SNIP ] >> > Police and government work from the play book. They both do all they >> > can >> > to >> > maintain a public dependence on their monopolized service, which is >> > manufactured and manipulated via a contrast of exaggerated fear and >> > high >> > profile "successes". Corruption is conversely downplayed through the >> > illusion of change or reform more akin to musical chairs. Stats are >> > selectively manipulated to promote the target of new legislative >> > powers, >> > so >> > they appear to be actively working to protect, while increasing budgets >> > and >> > government powers.
>> > The public falls for it every time, and corruption gets more and more >> > systemic. >> [ SNIP ]
>> What makes you think that each and every one of us isn't working from a >> "play book"? If I were the owner of a company, I'd have a marketing > strategy >> for my product or service.
> The key is motive....... All the companies i worked for were oriented > toward > customer satisfaction and quality control, not putting perfume on a pig.
Let's try "perceived" customer satisfaction. Most companies I've worked for - thankfully not my current employer - have been quite happy to use the philosophy of "hook the fish, then land it, and once you've done that, don't worry too much about complaints from the fish". To phrase it another way, once a customer has a piece of stuff, you can pay lip service to customer complaints...unless the customer has big bucks. With well-trained customer service reps you can even leave the customers thinking that they are ignorami, with them apologizing as they hang up.
> In any case, companies still have to compete in a relatively free market, > so > that is yet another moderating factor.
They may have to. In real life the free market often isn't. M$ stopped competing in a free market about a decade ago. NS Power doesn't compete. None of my possible ISPs compete - Aliant or Eastlink being the main ones - because they clearly have agreed to not compete; when you tot up their prices for bundle X you can see that they are colluding.
> Probably not high on the list of things to do >> would be a strategy to put myself out of business. Similarly, as an >> employee, you don't want to be too good - you may just end up working >> yourself out of work. So please don't blame just the cops for this > mindset - >> we all have it.
> To some extent, i agree. It is part of being human isn't it? That is why > free markets are the best way to get the best service, and policing is > just > another service, and the public should have a choice if they want it. Just > watch the service improve.
I'm not convinced. Back in the day I spent a year as a uniformed security guard, here in NS. Your vaunted free market produced (and continues to produce) a pool of security guards in NS (and likely so in other provinces) who are paid 8-10 dollars per hour (except in Ontario and Quebec), don't actually give a shit as a result, receive no training, and as near as I could ever tell, the clients didn't much care. The employers' main concern was that they have a warm body in a security role, to keep the insurance people happy - they actually didn't give a shit as to whether or not there really was effective security.
Like I say, I did a year's worth of security. In my experience the people on the ground (the store employees, or the guys at the construction site) were delighted to encounter a guard who actually was competent and gave a damn. It's like they didn't normally expect it.
I think this example has some relevance, because much of what the police do is analogous to what security guards do - presence & deterrence. Because the cops are so understaffed (before you scoff, let me point out that as I write there might maybe perhaps be fifty or seventy police officers out and about in HRM; that's for three hundred thousand citizens), companies use private security for the deterrence function. But they don't do it for the right reasons, which is why you have 120 pound women being used as guards in high-risk stores. That's the free market for you.
In short, the free market may or may not work. Very often it does not, from a pragmatic standpoint. Given what I said about private security companies, I don't see that private police would be held to any higher standards, *unless* they had special laws passed that treated them like...police.
> >> [ SNIP ] > >> > Police and government work from the play book. They both do all they > >> > can > >> > to > >> > maintain a public dependence on their monopolized service, which is > >> > manufactured and manipulated via a contrast of exaggerated fear and > >> > high > >> > profile "successes". Corruption is conversely downplayed through the > >> > illusion of change or reform more akin to musical chairs. Stats are > >> > selectively manipulated to promote the target of new legislative > >> > powers, > >> > so > >> > they appear to be actively working to protect, while increasing budgets > >> > and > >> > government powers.
> >> > The public falls for it every time, and corruption gets more and more > >> > systemic. > >> [ SNIP ]
> >> What makes you think that each and every one of us isn't working from a > >> "play book"? If I were the owner of a company, I'd have a marketing > > strategy > >> for my product or service.
> > The key is motive....... All the companies i worked for were oriented > > toward > > customer satisfaction and quality control, not putting perfume on a pig.
> Let's try "perceived" customer satisfaction. Most companies I've worked > for - thankfully not my current employer - have been quite happy to use the > philosophy of "hook the fish, then land it, and once you've done that, don't > worry too much about complaints from the fish". To phrase it another way, > once a customer has a piece of stuff, you can pay lip service to customer > complaints...unless the customer has big bucks. With well-trained customer > service reps you can even leave the customers thinking that they are > ignorami, with them apologizing as they hang up.
That is going to work, until another company comes along that the people "perceive" to be selling better or less expensive "stuff" and offering satisfactory customer service.
Even if such a system is not going to produce perfection, the competition has always shown it produces better service and goods. The only people who might disagree would be hard line communists who can't admit the obvious to themselves.
> > In any case, companies still have to compete in a relatively free market, > > so > > that is yet another moderating factor.
> They may have to. In real life the free market often isn't. M$ stopped > competing in a free market about a decade ago. NS Power doesn't compete. > None of my possible ISPs compete - Aliant or Eastlink being the main ones - > because they clearly have agreed to not compete; when you tot up their > prices for bundle X you can see that they are colluding.
I obviously agree that colluding and monopolizing is bad for customers. That is why governments should never interefer with competition, like they do in Canada. If someone can offer a better service or goods to the customer, they should be freely permitted to do so. We have a word for what happens when governments and large corporations work together to dominate and control the people and its production - its called fascism.
> > Probably not high on the list of things to do > >> would be a strategy to put myself out of business. Similarly, as an > >> employee, you don't want to be too good - you may just end up working > >> yourself out of work. So please don't blame just the cops for this > > mindset - > >> we all have it.
> > To some extent, i agree. It is part of being human isn't it? That is why > > free markets are the best way to get the best service, and policing is > > just > > another service, and the public should have a choice if they want it. Just > > watch the service improve.
> I'm not convinced. Back in the day I spent a year as a uniformed security > guard, here in NS. Your vaunted free market produced (and continues to > produce) a pool of security guards in NS (and likely so in other provinces) > who are paid 8-10 dollars per hour (except in Ontario and Quebec), don't > actually give a shit as a result, receive no training, and as near as I > could ever tell, the clients didn't much care.
They likely didn't care because they all provided relatively good service. No doubt because they knew they had to compete.
Just picture what things would be like if there were only one security service. Furthermore, if this one company decided not to come out to your calls, at least you'd still have the option of not paying for the crappy service. Someone would then see the opening to offer a better service, and round and round it goes - it has a system of checks and balances, with the customer holding the balance of power.
Again, it is not going to produce perfection, but it is pretty clear to most people that this is better than letting a government or corporation control the market. It is the right of the people to buy and sell the services they need and/or desire.
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