In webmaster tools it says under Top Search Queries that the listing
position is 4th for query "bridal silk" - yet when I look on google
itself it cannot be found on the first few pages?
Sure I understand if it says it is 4th, and when your look it is 6th,
or 2nd due to times of day and shift, but not to be found on the first
5 pages???
Odd - any help to explain this would be greatly appreciated.
The site is just a mini-site we made for the client, as they were
running some adverts in the paper and wanted a different URL. This
mini-site then directs the user to the main company site.
Webmaster Tools information is not real time and in any event, can not
always be taken literally. Of more concern is the situation with the
bridal-silk site:
>This mini-site then directs the user to the main
> company site.
Nope, doesn't direct or redirect anywhere. This is a one page site for
that domain, with all main menu links going to vanners.com, the site
has no purpose beyond that. IMO, this would be viewed as a gateway
site and as such, in contravention of Google guidelines.
Not suggesting you have done this deliberately but the situation
should be corrected. Using various URLs in other media is common
practice but where these are intended to funnel traffic to the main
site, they should be 301 redirected to that site.
The bridal silk site has no content, or purpose of it's own, no chance
of going anywhere in indexing terms, has a greater chance of being
deindexed and could cause problems for the main site.
> In webmaster tools it says under Top Search Queries that the listing
> position is 4th for query "bridal silk" - yet when I look on google
> itself it cannot be found on the first few pages?
> Sure I understand if it says it is 4th, and when your look it is 6th,
> or 2nd due to times of day and shift, but not to be found on the first
> 5 pages???
There's no way to explain this other than another tool that doesn't
work. I've seen the exact same thing for years and I've wondered
about this all the time. I'm seeing more posts about too. Like you
said, it's understandable seeing a few or even several spots
difference due to different DC's being hit, but several pages deeper
or not even being found anywhere for the search term is indicative
that something isn't working properly with their "tools".
David
>>> The site is just a mini-site we made for the client,
>>> as they were running some adverts in the paper and
>>> wanted a different URL. This mini-site then directs
>>> the user to the main company site.
Something that shouldn't be made indexable for the search engines
anyway (most of the very good reasons for that have been outlined by
Chibcha, see above), what for, if it's intended to be for 'type-ins'
only?
(Some of the reasons
>>> Sure I understand if it says it is 4th, and
>>> when your look it is 6th, or 2nd due to times
>>> of day and shift, but not to be found on the first
>>> 5 pages???
The number given may be the highest position reached, could very well
be, that these positions have really been there, but for a specific
situation (personalization, regionalization) AND for a (very) short
time only ('repeated test-ranking' or 'ranking rotation'). You'll HAVE
to monitor your traffic: Do you get sporadic visits for the keyword
shown as having a "high" position? Or none or a bunch of them?
> >>> The site is just a mini-site we made for the client,
> >>> as they were running some adverts in the paper and
> >>> wanted a different URL. This mini-site then directs
> >>> the user to the main company site.
> Something that shouldn't be made indexable for the search engines
> anyway (most of the very good reasons for that have been outlined by
> Chibcha, see above), what for, if it's intended to be for 'type-ins'
> only?
> (Some of the reasons
> >>> Sure I understand if it says it is 4th, and
> >>> when your look it is 6th, or 2nd due to times
> >>> of day and shift, but not to be found on the first
> >>> 5 pages???
> The number given may be the highest position reached, could very well
> be, that these positions have really been there, but for a specific
> situation (personalization, regionalization) AND for a (very) short
> time only ('repeated test-ranking' or 'ranking rotation'). You'll HAVE
> to monitor your traffic: Do you get sporadic visits for the keyword
> shown as having a "high" position? Or none or a bunch of them?
I'm not trying to con google here - we do not have 100s of domains
pointing at the site. We simply registered the domain and set up the
minisite so the URL could be used in media (bridal magazines etc),
rather than the name of the company which would mean little to most.
I had not thought about 301 redirects, but will look into this more
(thanks). Question: If I do 301 redirects, say to a page on the main
site - would the benefit of the content and ranking of the minisite be
passed on to the page? Or is it simply a bypass route for Google?
However, the reason we have the mini-site submitted as an individual
site is that some of the clients of the company are not as internet
savvy as most of us, and a lot of them I'm afraid to say still don't
know how to access a site from a URL. Yes to you and I it is simply a
case of type the URL into the address bar and away you go, but I have
seen full URLs on the log files too many times to confirm that people
type full URLs in google to find sites (as dumb as that is) so that is
why we have submitted is separately.
At the end of the day Google are trying to give people what they are
looking for, if someone typed in Bridal Silk, found this mini-site and
continued through to the main site, then surly everyone is happy? The
visitor is happy as they have found what they are looking for, the
company is happy as they have found the customer and Google are happy
as it is an effective search & find rather than spam sites.
Don't think anyone suggested you were but you did bump your original
post with:
>Had hoped for a little help??
Which was offered, even though you might not agree with the fairly
unilateral conclusion. Quite easy to set up keyword orientated
domains, as with yours, which uses the same template as the main site,
contains one indexable paragraph and all navigation links pointing to
the other site. Imagine what would happen if Google did try and
support this type of scenario, the same company could effectively
control all the top twenty results, or fifty if they wanted to.
Equally, why should they even control two or three of the top results,
effectively for the same website.
I appreciate your point about searchability of the domain name and
this is a small part of the reason you will not generally see
established companies use this practice. The main part is their wish
to counteract your own statement:
>the URL could be used in media (bridal magazines etc)
>rather than the name of the company which would mean
>little to most.
They want their core brand name to be known, not least when they are
in the type of market you are aiming at, where brand, perceived
quality and style are everything. Vanners appear to have a fine base
to build on in that way, personally, I wouldn't dream of using another
name in any form of marketing.
You are quite entitled to disagree with that and if you want to push
forward bridal-silk.co.uk, build a website of value for that domain. I
can not subscribe to your feeling:
>At the end of the day Google are trying to give people what they
>are looking for, if someone typed in Bridal Silk, found this
>mini-site and continued through to the main site, then surly
>everyone is happy?
How can we know what people are searching for when they type in
"bridal silk" and in any event, whilst I accept your point that most
users are not too knowledgeable, many will realise they have gone to
one website and immediately been taken to another. A good proportion
will understandably be aggrieved and Google would lose market share,
together with the inevitable negative press from those who did have a
little knowledge. This could all be very damaging and doesn't make for
good search results either.
Re your question on 301s, this approach will normally see any value
carried forward and is the method suggested by Google. 301 redirecting
bridal-silk to something like bridal.cfm on the main site would be a
sound aproach. Good luck with taking the Vanners site forward, looks
to be an enjoyable opportunity.
> I'm not trying to con google here - we do not have 100s of domains
> pointing at the site. We simply registered the domain and set up the
> minisite so the URL could be used in media (bridal magazines etc),
> rather than the name of the company which would mean little to most.
> I had not thought about 301 redirects, but will look into this more
> (thanks). Question: If I do 301 redirects, say to a page on the main
> site - would the benefit of the content and ranking of the minisite be
> passed on to the page? Or is it simply a bypass route for Google?
> However, the reason we have the mini-site submitted as an individual
> site is that some of the clients of the company are not as internet
> savvy as most of us, and a lot of them I'm afraid to say still don't
> know how to access a site from a URL. Yes to you and I it is simply a
> case of type the URL into the address bar and away you go, but I have
> seen full URLs on the log files too many times to confirm that people
> type full URLs in google to find sites (as dumb as that is) so that is
> why we have submitted is separately.
> At the end of the day Google are trying to give people what they are
> looking for, if someone typed in Bridal Silk, found this mini-site and
> continued through to the main site, then surly everyone is happy? The
> visitor is happy as they have found what they are looking for, the
> company is happy as they have found the customer and Google are happy
> as it is an effective search & find rather than spam sites.
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