I'm looking for any and all documentaion on any of the Apple //c hard drives that were produced. This includes the ProApp, Chinook and Quark -- any technical info would be welcome in addition to user manuals.
I'd to get this info in wider circulation in the hopes someone will develop a mass storage solution for the Apple //c that is compatible with existing //c peripherals.
sfahey wrote: > I'm looking for any and all documentaion on any of the Apple //c hard > drives > that were produced. This includes the ProApp, Chinook and Quark -- any > technical info would be welcome in addition to user manuals.
> I'd to get this info in wider circulation in the hopes someone will develop > a > mass storage solution for the Apple //c that is compatible with existing > //c > peripherals.
> sfahey wrote: > > I'm looking for any and all documentaion on any of the Apple //c hard > > drives > > that were produced. This includes the ProApp, Chinook and Quark -- any > > technical info would be welcome in addition to user manuals.
> > I'd to get this info in wider circulation in the hopes someone will > develop > > a > > mass storage solution for the Apple //c that is compatible with existing > > //c > > peripherals.
On Nov 3, 12:38 am, "sfahey" <sfa...@a2central.com.remove-cuk-this> wrote:
> I'm looking for any and all documentaion on any of the Apple //c hard drives > that were produced. This includes the ProApp, Chinook and Quark -- any > technical info would be welcome in addition to user manuals.
> I'd to get this info in wider circulation in the hopes someone will develop a > mass storage solution for the Apple //c that is compatible with existing //c > peripherals.
The SmartPort (or Protocol Converter in older parlance) interface is documented (albeit poorly) in the Apple IIGS Firmware Reference.
Implementing a storage solution for the IIc would require:
Understanding of the hardware protocol used to communicate with SmartPort devices (Like the Unidisk 3.5" or the Chinook). You can grab this from the aforementioned reference. Understanding of the Smartport software protocol. I found the disassembly of the IIc ROM in any of the reference manuals post the original an excellent guide for this.
What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the encoded packets.
Certainly not a project for the faint of heart, which is why alas it hasn't been done yet :-(
> What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and > that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need > either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the > encoded packets.
> > What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and > > that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need > > either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the > > encoded packets.
> On Nov 5, 2:28 pm, Toinet <antoine.vig...@laposte.net> wrote:
> > On 5 nov, 04:41, mdj <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > (cut cut)
> > > What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and > > > that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need > > > either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the > > > encoded packets.
> > What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and > > that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need > > either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the > > encoded packets.
> > > What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and > > > that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need > > > either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the > > > encoded packets.
mdj wrote: > Understanding of the hardware protocol used to communicate with > SmartPort devices (Like the Unidisk 3.5" or the Chinook). You can grab > this from the aforementioned reference. > Understanding of the Smartport software protocol. I found the > disassembly of the IIc ROM in any of the reference manuals post the > original an excellent guide for this.
> What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and > that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need > either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the > encoded packets.
I was always under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that the IIc used direct hardware twiddling for hard-drive support on the Smartport. In other words, that it bypassed the firmware and IWM chip with bit-banging.
Will have to take a look at that documentation.
If it's of historical interest, I still have the official "Protocol Converter" specification that Applied Engineering sent me when I was writing Unidisk 3.5 support for the AE Z80 card. Probably worth scanning and archiving.
On 5 nov, 13:48, Steven Hirsch <snhir...@gmail.com> wrote:
> (cut cut) > If it's of historical interest, I still have the official "Protocol Converter" > specification that Applied Engineering sent me when I was writing Unidisk 3.5 > support for the AE Z80 card. Probably worth scanning and archiving.
> Steve
Steve, I'd be glad to add your "Protocol Converter" specification to the documentation section of brutal-deluxe.fr
> "mdj" <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:96b95590-487e-4173-b8ee-bbfd59f413df@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> > What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and >> > that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need >> > either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the >> > encoded packets.
>> (cut cut) >> If it's of historical interest, I still have the official >> "Protocol Converter" specification that Applied Engineering >> sent me when I was writing Unidisk 3.5 support for the AE >> Z80 card. Probably worth scanning and archiving.
>> Steve
> Steve,
> I'd be glad to add your "Protocol Converter" specification > to the documentation section of brutal-deluxe.fr
> antoine
I have them already. I sent them to Antoine via email.
Steven, check them to be sure they are the same ones.
To: Steven Hirsch Re: Re: Documentation wanted By: Steven Hirsch to comp.sys.apple2 on Thu Nov 05 2009 07:48 am
> If it's of historical interest, I still have the official "Protocol Converte > specification that Applied Engineering sent me when I was writing Unidisk 3. > support for the AE Z80 card. Probably worth scanning and archiving.
> "Toinet" <antoine.vig...@laposte.net> wrote in message > news:83b412e4-f74f-4aee-9573-5f36f1c3a0cf@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... > On 5 nov, 13:48, Steven Hirsch <snhir...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> (cut cut) >>> If it's of historical interest, I still have the official >>> "Protocol Converter" specification that Applied Engineering >>> sent me when I was writing Unidisk 3.5 support for the AE >>> Z80 card. Probably worth scanning and archiving.
>>> Steve
>> Steve,
>> I'd be glad to add your "Protocol Converter" specification >> to the documentation section of brutal-deluxe.fr
>> antoine
> I have them already. I sent them to Antoine via email.
> Steven, check them to be sure they are the same ones.
> Thanks,
Also, that "Protocol Converter Calls" PDF has been on my web site's downloads section for quite some time. :-)))
In the "DOCS" folder. Does anyone even go there? :-(((
> mdj wrote: > > Understanding of the hardware protocol used to communicate with > > SmartPort devices (Like the Unidisk 3.5" or the Chinook). You can grab > > this from the aforementioned reference. > > Understanding of the Smartport software protocol. I found the > > disassembly of the IIc ROM in any of the reference manuals post the > > original an excellent guide for this.
> > What's not documented at all as far as I can tell is the IWM, and > > that's where it gets tricky. To get further, you're going to need > > either a logic analyser, or very patiently reverse engineer the > > encoded packets.
> I was always under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that the IIc used direct > hardware twiddling for hard-drive support on the Smartport. In other words, > that it bypassed the firmware and IWM chip with bit-banging.
> Will have to take a look at that documentation.
It's the Apple II world equivalent of the "Improbability Drive" :-)
Bit banging is used for negotiation, for instance to reset all devices on a SmartPort bus and to perform a form of handshaking very similar to rs232. Actual data is transmitted via the IWM in packets that more or less match the smartport commands, in chunks that are checksummed.
They went out of their way to ensure data integrity and reliability on relatively long physical smartport busses.
> If it's of historical interest, I still have the official "Protocol Converter" > specification that Applied Engineering sent me when I was writing Unidisk 3.5 > support for the AE Z80 card. Probably worth scanning and archiving.
If it covers more than just the firmware interface, it'd be well worth having, but I suspect it doesn't as I have a similar sounding document here; it was an addendum to the IIc reference manual after the unidisk rom update, before the SmartPort naming convention was used.
> > "Toinet" <antoine.vig...@laposte.net> wrote in message > >news:83b412e4-f74f-4aee-9573-5f36f1c3a0cf@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... > > On 5 nov, 13:48, Steven Hirsch <snhir...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> (cut cut) > >>> If it's of historical interest, I still have the official > >>> "Protocol Converter" specification that Applied Engineering > >>> sent me when I was writing Unidisk 3.5 support for the AE > >>> Z80 card. Probably worth scanning and archiving.
> >>> Steve
> >> Steve,
> >> I'd be glad to add your "Protocol Converter" specification > >> to the documentation section of brutal-deluxe.fr
> >> antoine
> > I have them already. I sent them to Antoine via email.
> > Steven, check them to be sure they are the same ones.
> > Thanks,
> Also, that "Protocol Converter Calls" PDF has been on my > web site's downloads section for quite some time. :-)))
> In the "DOCS" folder. Does anyone even go there? :-(((
> Also, that "Protocol Converter Calls" PDF has been on my web site's > downloads section for quite some time. :-))) > In the "DOCS" folder. Does anyone even go there? :-(((
FWIW Bill, I just went there and snagged a couple of files. Thanks for the resource!
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