Gmail Calendar Documents Reader Web more »
Recently Visited Groups | Help | Sign in
Google Groups Home
911 flaw delayed help to attack victim [Telecom]
There are currently too many topics in this group that display first. To make this topic appear first, remove this option from another topic.
There was an error processing your request. Please try again.
flag
  3 messages - Collapse all  -  Translate all to Translated (View all originals)
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com  
View profile  
 More options Oct 30, 2:39 am
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
From: hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Fri, Oct 30 2009 2:39 am
Subject: 911 flaw delayed help to attack victim [Telecom]
The following is a disturbing story.  The Newark NJ Star Ledger
reported that the victim of an attack dialed 911 for help, but
apparently the 911 center was unable to determine the location of the
call.  It was not clear whether the 911 center had the technology to
do so, or [if] there was a flaw [in] it.  Perhaps others more familiar
with modern 911 operation can elaborate.

For full article please see:
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-15/12567813...

I wonder how many 911 centers in the US are properly equipped to
identify where the calling phone is.

It seems to me that anyone in trouble should use a landline phone if
at all available.  Unfortunately there are few pay phones out there
these days and one might have to go to a house.  I think most people
in a store, home, or office would call the police if a stranger banged
on the door and asked them to do so (I would do so merely because
someone was banging on my door).  However, there are some businesses
in high crime areas where the clerks do not speak English very well
and stay locked in a booth.

For a motorist in trouble on a rural highway the situation is harder.
Most of us do not pay attention to intermediate landmarks when we
travel a road--we are looking for the distant place where we get off.
That is, if we're exiting at exit #104 and we've passed #24, we're not
gonna remember that we just passed #24.  So, if we get into trouble
and call for help, we'll have little idea of where we are.

[Comments requested.  Public replies, please.  Thanks.]

***** Moderator's Note *****

The person who made the call was already inside a building: he was a
priest inside a church rectory. He was attacked by a church employee,
apparently while making his 911 call. It's very unlikely that a faster
response would have helped him, since the newspaper article alluded to
"32 stab wounds".

The problem is not caused by cell phones: it's caused by the
unrealistic expectations we have regarding what is and is not possible
in public-safety responses. The TV-viewing public has adopted a
fantasy where it expects a telephone to transform into a trained and
well-equiped and well-supported public safety professional in the
blink of an eye, all the while forgetting the basic imperatives of
distance and time. Municipal managers have endorsed electronics as the
"magic bullet" which cures all ills, and have placed poorly trained
call-takers in positions where experienced police officers and/or
firefighters would be more effective. The results have been
foreseeable.

Bill Horne
Moderator


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
David Clayton  
View profile  
 More options Oct 30, 10:05 am
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
From: David Clayton <dcs...@NOSPAM.myrealbox.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:05:22 +1100
Local: Fri, Oct 30 2009 10:05 am
Subject: Re: 911 flaw delayed help to attack victim [Telecom]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:39:21 -0700, Telecom Digest Moderator wrote:
> The problem is not caused by cell phones: it's caused by the
> unrealistic expectations we have regarding what is and is not
> possible in public-safety responses. The TV-viewing public has
> adopted a fantasy where it expects a telephone to transform into a
> trained and well-equiped and well-supported public safety
> professional in the blink of an eye, all the while forgetting the
> basic imperatives of distance and time. Municipal managers have
> endorsed electronics as the "magic bullet" which cures all ills, and
> have placed poorly trained call-takers in positions where
> experienced police officers and/or firefighters would be more
> effective. The results have been foreseeable.  

A similar false expectation is being built up where I live after the
big bush fires earlier this year resulted in so many deaths. A new
system of SMS notifications is being implemented based on the
*BILLING* address of the mobile service! Yep, you many not be anywhere
near a possible disaster (or you might be right in the middle of it)
but you will only get a warning message if the phone's billing address
matches the region....

There are so many obvious flaws in any system relying on technology to
work during a major catastrophe that you really don't want to have
people believing that they can rely on it, but we always seem to keep
heading down that path.

There is a Royal Commission into the bushfires still in progress, and
we see regular testimony on the TV news of people complaining about
delays when they tried to ring the (horrendously overloaded) emergency
services during the event - and others basically demanding that these
resources should be staffed 24/7 with the ability to service a major
disaster (but they never seem to say that they are willing to pay for
such an expensive system).

It's the mentality that some people just seem to expect their own
personal police officer/ambulance/fire truck just waiting for them at
the other end of a (100% reliable) phone call.

--
Regards, David.

David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Tom Horne  
View profile  
 More options Oct 31, 12:57 am
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
From: Tom Horne <horn...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Oct 31 2009 12:57 am
Subject: Re: 911 flaw delayed help to attack victim [Telecom]
On Oct 29, 11:39 am, hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> The following is a disturbing story.  The Newark NJ Star Ledger
> reported that the victim of an attack dialed 911 for help, but
> apparently the 911 center was unable to determine the location of the
> call.  It was not clear whether the 911 center had the technology to
> do so, or [if] there was a flaw [in] it.  Perhaps others more familiar
> with modern 911 operation can elaborate.

> For full article please see:
> http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-15/12567813...

[Moderator snip]

> ***** Moderator's Note *****

[Moderator snip]

> The problem is not caused by cell phones: it's caused by the
> unrealistic expectations we have regarding what is and is not possible
> in public-safety responses. The TV-viewing public has adopted a
> fantasy where it expects a telephone to transform into a trained and
> well-equiped and well-supported public safety professional in the
> blink of an eye, all the while forgetting the basic imperatives of
> distance and time. Municipal managers have endorsed electronics as the
> "magic bullet" which cures all ills, and have placed poorly trained
> call-takers in positions where experienced police officers and/or
> firefighters would be more effective. The results have been
> foreseeable.

> Bill Horne
> Moderator

Notice that at least one of the quoted law makers does understand the
biggest part of the problem, which is the diversion of 911 fees to uses
that have nothing to do with handling emergency telephone calls well.

It is so much easier for a politician to pay for the PSAP staffing
with the [911] fees then it is for them to do that out of the general
fund and use the fees to pay for new equipment and software.  If they
do the first one they can save the library hours that people are
screaming about; if they do the latter they have to bear up under the
attacks from the people who wanted them to "cut the fat, not their
macrame class."  That last is an actual quote from a call I answered
as a relief dispatcher in Davis California shortly after proposition
Thirteen passed by an overwhelming margin.  To that caller the closing
of the recreation center for nights and weekends was a travesty and
not a foreseeable result of her voting to cut the towns property tax
revenue in half.

--
Tom Horne


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
End of messages
« Back to Discussions « Newer topic     Older topic »

Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
©2009 Google