Booster seats. Door stops. Fodder for papier-mache projects. It seems those thick phone books that land on most folks' doorsteps each year get used for just about everything except locating phone numbers.
If some state and local lawmakers have their way, however, even those uses would go by the wayside.
Under legislation they hope to take to Sacramento in January, state Sen. Leland Yee, D-San Francisco, and Millbrae Councilwoman Gina Papan would bar phone companies from producing and distributing White Pages unless people choose to receive it.
"All of us know in these cost-conscious times, with growing awareness of the environment, that we need to make sure we don't waste resources," Yee said during a news conference at Millbrae City Hall on Thursday morning.
> Booster seats. Door stops. Fodder for papier-mache projects. It > seems those thick phone books that land on most folks' doorsteps > each year get used for just about everything except locating phone > numbers. >If some state and local lawmakers have their way, however, even those >uses would go by the wayside. > Under legislation they hope to take to Sacramento in January, state > Sen. Leland Yee, D-San Francisco, and Millbrae Councilwoman Gina > Papan would bar phone companies from producing and distributing > White Pages unless people choose to receive it. > "All of us know in these cost-conscious times, with growing > awareness of the environment, that we need to make sure we don't > waste resources," Yee said during a news conference at Millbrae City > Hall on Thursday morning. >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/29/BALL1ACEQ...
Really? Legislators can outlaw printed matter by declaring it garbage? Shudder
I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the parameters.
There is no current on line directory service as useful as a printed phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more.
Adam H. Kerman wrote: > Really? Legislators can outlaw printed matter by declaring it > garbage? Shudder
> I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, > which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my > face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the > parameters.
> There is no current on line directory service as useful as a printed > phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more.
Legislating the the LEC cannot distribute the directory except to those subscribers who request it is hardly outlawing printed matter.
Let's face it, in this case it's the LECs who are the culprits, not the nanny legislator. The LEC knows putting a viable, searchable directory on-line will cut into their overpriced 411 directory service.
Those white page directories are a horrible waste of paper and resources for the vast majority of subscribers.
The LECs don't want to admit the existence of the Internet. ;-)
Adam H. Kerman wrote: > Joseph Singer <joeofseat...@yahoo.com> wrote; >> Booster seats. Door stops. Fodder for papier-mache projects. It >> seems those thick phone books that land on most folks' doorsteps >> each year get used for just about everything except locating phone >> numbers.
>> If some state and local lawmakers have their way, however, even >> those uses would go by the wayside.
>> Under legislation they hope to take to Sacramento in January, state >> Sen. Leland Yee, D-San Francisco, and Millbrae Councilwoman Gina >> Papan would bar phone companies from producing and distributing >> White Pages unless people choose to receive it.
>> "All of us know in these cost-conscious times, with growing >> awareness of the environment, that we need to make sure we don't >> waste resources," Yee said during a news conference at Millbrae >> City Hall on Thursday morning.
> Really? Legislators can outlaw printed matter by declaring it > garbage? Shudder.
> I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, > which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my > face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the > parameters.
> There is no current on line directory service as useful as a printed > phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more.
AT&T has digital versions of their printed ones and [they] are showen like the printed ones.
On Oct 31, 2:23 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> Really? Legislators can outlaw printed matter by declaring it garbage? > Shudder
You're right, that is very disconcerting. As much as I believe in recycling and control of wasted paper* IMHO it is unconstitutional for the govt to tell someone what they may or may not print and distribute**
But in the case of local telephone service, which is regulated, it may be a matter of saying the cost of the white pages would not be covered under the rate base; that would discourage the companies from printing it.
In any event, I'm surprised it's not the telephone companies themselves pushing to end white pages. Years ago the directory made economic sense as it encouraged calling and discouraged DAB calls, but today that's no longer relevant.
It used to be common for libraries to have directory collections, a larger library would have a massive shelf of many cities and towns. No more. Likewise, at large banks of pay phones there'd be a directory stand with numerous books, again, no more pay phone banks and it's rare to see a directory next to a pay phone these days (though I have.)
> I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, > which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my > face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the > parameters.
An online directory showed a long disconnected (5 years) line for me and not my current number. Then it had me living in a distant town. So what good is that? The online directories today are more interested in displaying ads than real information.
Indeed, even when one is looking for ad stuff, e.g., a pizza place, the information is wildly inaccurate or unfocused. In a developed area, people will not drive 50-75 miles for a pizza, but those are the listings you get.
* Our society, especially with computers, wastes an enormous amount of paper. My phone bill used to be one slip of paper, now it is so thick it requires extra postage. Electric bills used to be sent out on postcards.
** Certain types of porn are illegal. Actually how they get away with that I don't know; they claim it's harmful. But a newspaper story could be harmful, too.
> Joseph Singer <joeofseat...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Under legislation they hope to take to Sacramento in January, state >> Sen. Leland Yee, D-San Francisco, and Millbrae Councilwoman Gina >> Papan would bar phone companies from producing and distributing >> White Pages unless people choose to receive it.
I used to receive one copy of the local phone book (white+yellow pages) for each line I had (4); circa late 1990s, PacBell only delivered one phone book per house.
> [...]
> I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, > which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my > face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the > parameters.
Ain't that the truth?!
> There is no current on line directory service as useful as a printed > phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more.
Very true. I abandoned all land-lines in late 2002, becoming cellphone only. The funny thing is, I still receive the (one) phone book from Pac Bell (now "AT&tT") each year, delivered right to my front door even though I don't have any "AT&tT" service.
The printed directory is far more useful than online lookups, especially the yellow pages per several lookups I did recently. Google's lookups have really deteriorated, too, becoming almost useless.
Sam Spade <s...@coldmail.com> wrote: >Adam H. Kerman wrote: >> Really? Legislators can outlaw printed matter by declaring it >> garbage? Shudder >> I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, >> which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my >> face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the >> parameters. >> There is no current on line directory service as useful as a >> printed phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more. > Legislating the the LEC cannot distribute the directory except to > those subscribers who request it is hardly outlawing printed matter.
Distribution is part of publishing. Yes, that's exactly what it means.
> Let's face it, in this case it's the LECs who are the culprits, not > the nanny legislator. The LEC knows putting a viable, searchable > directory on-line will cut into their overpriced 411 directory > service.
It's overpriced, so I won't use it. I like phone books.
> Those white page directories are a horrible waste of paper and > resources for the vast majority of subscribers.
No, they are not. They are a decently organized and therefore useful resource for which there are currently only inferior on line replacements.
> The LECs don't want to admit the existence of the Internet. ;-)
Till about two years ago, there were a number of very good white pages and yellow pages equivalent on line databases, based not on current billing records but possibly out of date phone directory lists. They got out of the business.
Anyway, the Subject header on this message is wrong and doesn't describe the situation we are discussing. This smacks of prior restraint.
> [...] > Very true. I abandoned all land-lines in late 2002, becoming cellphone > only. The funny thing is, I still receive the (one) phone book from > Pac Bell (now "AT&tT") each year, delivered right to my front door even > though I don't have any "AT&tT" service. > [...]
Friendly note to moderator:
Bill, my use of "ATat&tT" (instead of "AT&T") is correct; the "new" (not real (not the company that brought us Bells Labs, Western Electric, etc.)) ATat&tT lowercases its name as can be seen in these 2 examples:
Steven <diespamm...@killspammers.com> wrote: >Adam H. Kerman wrote: >> There is no current on line directory service as useful as a >> printed phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more. > AT&T has digital versions of their printed ones and [they] are > showen like the printed ones. > http://www.realpageslive.com/guide
I know about that. For historic reasons, it doesn't include directories in my area. RH Donnelley was the first publisher of a classified telephone directory although he didn't coin the term Yellow Pages or think to color the newsprint yellow. Traditionally, the Chicago classified business directory was the Red Book, not that I'm old enough to have seen one with a red cover.
RHD has its own Web site which I despise, although some of the Dex television ads are kind of cute.
In a message dated 10/31/2009 1:54:44 PM Central Standard Time,
hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com writes: > It used to be common for libraries to have directory collections, a > larger library would have a massive shelf of many cities and towns. > No more.
I once looked up my distant realtives in the phone book from Bern, Switzerland, which had a great collection of phone books from around the world. As you say, no more.
It was sometimes interesting the browse some phone books. The ones (5 volumes, I believe) from London, England, had a YP classificaiton for "motor enginers". After reading some of the ads, it seems that was the cusage for what we call auto repair shops.
>> Really? Legislators can outlaw printed matter by declaring it >> garbage? Shudder
>> I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, >> which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my >> face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the >> parameters.
>> There is no current on line directory service as useful as a printed >> phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more.
> Legislating the the LEC cannot distribute the directory except to > those subscribers who request it is hardly outlawing printed matter.
> Let's face it, in this case it's the LECs who are the culprits, not > the nanny legislator. The LEC knows putting a viable, searchable > directory on-line will cut into their overpriced 411 directory > service.
> Those white page directories are a horrible waste of paper and > resources for the vast majority of subscribers.
> The LECs don't want to admit the existence of the Internet. ;-)
AT&T in Oklahoma City and several other cities have made white (residential) pages available only on request, and in fact they make it difficult to make such a request (the request must be made by telephone only, not by e-mail or U.S. mail, and presumably you have to wait in queue to make such a request. And they will not accept such a reuqest until the delivery of the Yellow Pages in that exchange is complete).
tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlL...@att.net> wrote: >Steven <diespamm...@killspammers.com> wrote: >>... >>AT&T has digital versions of their printed ones and [they] are showen >>like the printed ones. >>http://www.realpageslive.com/guide >That seems to be a Yellow Pages counterpart. >For the White Pages, a substitute might be AT&T's >http://www.anywho.com , >which also has Reverse Lookup and Yellow Pages functionality.
This had been AT&T's residential listings, but isn't any longer. The Web site was sold, or perhaps licensed, to Intelius, an information consolidator and one of those companies that tries to steer directory users into paid searches, under a lot of names. Information consolidators do not strive for accuracy, always blaming inaccuracies on the sources they've purchased, which they will not name if one is trying to eliminate out of date or erroneous information about one's self from these directories.
fwiw, Intelius does honor opt out requests submitted through Anywho, but those merely prevent searches through the Anywho interface and wouldn't apply to the numerous front ends to Intelius database.
Its business listings are from yellowpages.com, an AT&T subsidiary. Now, Yellow Pages listings aren't as accurate nor up-to-date as a business white pages of telephone subscribers, but it's better than nothing. Searching isn't readily controlled by the user, which is deliberate.
> That seems to be a Yellow Pages counterpart. > For the White Pages, a substitute might be AT&T's
This brings up all the AT&T directories for the 48 states. Once you select the directory you want, then along the top there are tabs for business, residence, and government white pages, as well as guides:
> It was sometimes interesting the browse some phone books. The ones > (5 volumes, I believe) from London, England, had a YP classificaiton > for "motor enginers". After reading some of the ads, it seems that > was the cusage for what we call auto repair shops.
I visited a large library that had a big collection, including books from small towns. Many of those places did not yet get DDD and the dialing instructions were quite austere. That is, to call other towns required various odd access codes, sometimes a wait for a second dial tone.
The listings for the fire department had a list of the main firemen by name and their phone numbers.
BTW, when the Bell System introduced discounts for dialed direct calls circa 1971, subscribers who didn't yet have it were charged the lower dialed direct rate. Or if anyone had trouble making a toll call and requested operator help, the lower rate applied. Not true today. Today, consumers have to fight like heck to get banks, credit card companies, phone companies, etc. to remove service charges that were the result of the company's error.
>> Really? Legislators can outlaw printed matter by declaring it >> garbage? Shudder
>> I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, >> which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my >> face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the >> parameters.
>> There is no current on line directory service as useful as a printed >> phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more.
> Legislating the the LEC cannot distribute the directory except to > those subscribers who request it is hardly outlawing printed matter.
> Let's face it, in this case it's the LECs who are the culprits, not > the nanny legislator. The LEC knows putting a viable, searchable > directory on-line will cut into their overpriced 411 directory > service.
> Those white page directories are a horrible waste of paper and > resources for the vast majority of subscribers.
> The LECs don't want to admit the existence of the Internet. ;-)
AT&T in Oklahoma City and several other cities have made white (residential) pages available only on request, and in fact they make it difficult to make such a request (the request must be made by telephone only, not by e-mail or U.S. mail, and presumably you have to wait in queue to make such a request. And they will not accept such a reuqest until the delivery of the Yellow Pages in that exchange is complete).
Sam Spade <s...@coldmail.com> wrote: > This brings up all the AT&T directories for the 48 states. > http://www.realpageslive.com/
It's merely their directories in 22 states, and not in Illinois or northwest Indiana where the historic agreement with Reuben H. Donnelley is still in place. I tested a few community names that I knew AT&T didn't publish directories for, and the search engine "matched" as closely as possible another community irrelevant to my request.
Also, it's easily confused by "John Smith", requiring "Smith, John", but there's no reminder to that effect.
> Its business listings are from yellowpages.com, an AT&T > subsidiary. Now, Yellow Pages listings aren't as accurate nor > up-to-date as a business white pages of telephone subscribers, but > it's better than nothing. Searching isn't readily controlled by the > user, which is deliberate.
All I can say is that I hope the print editions of the AT&T yellow pages don't stop. That's where I get a lot of new customers! There are many people who prefer to look through the yellow pages and compare ads side by side before deciding on who to call for service.
-- "You're in probably the wickedest, most corrupt city, most Godless city in America." -- Fr Mullen, "San Francisco"
Wesr...@aol.com wrote: > AT&T in Oklahoma City and several other cities have made white > (residential) pages available only on request, and in fact they make > it difficult to make such a request (the request must be made by > telephone only, not by e-mail or U.S. mail, and presumably you have > to wait in queue to make such a request.
Personally I haven't looked up anything in the white pages in at least a year. So few residential users are listed that it's really only a source for business listings, and if I already know the name of the company (which is how the white pages are organized) then I just look it up online.
-- "You're in probably the wickedest, most corrupt city, most Godless city in America." -- Fr Mullen, "San Francisco"
> It's merely their directories in 22 states, and not in Illinois or > northwest Indiana where the historic agreement with Reuben > H. Donnelley is still in place. I tested a few community names that > I knew AT&T didn't publish directories for, and the search engine > "matched" as closely as possible another community irrelevant to my > request.
> Also, it's easily confused by "John Smith", requiring "Smith, > John", but there's no reminder to that effect.
I should have parsed my words more carefully. They provide a selection map of all 48 states. I presume a state where they don't have an LEC presence wouldn't return anything.
Sam Spade <s...@coldmail.com> wrote: >Adam H. Kerman wrote: >>Sam Spade <s...@coldmail.com> wrote: >>>This brings up all the AT&T directories for the 48 states. >>>http://www.realpageslive.com/ >> It's merely their directories in 22 states, and not in Illinois or >> northwest Indiana where the historic agreement with Reuben >> H. Donnelley is still in place. I tested a few community names that >> I knew AT&T didn't publish directories for, and the search engine >> "matched" as closely as possible another community irrelevant to my >> request. >> Also, it's easily confused by "John Smith", requiring "Smith, >> John", but there's no reminder to that effect. > I should have parsed my words more carefully. They provide a > selection map of all 48 states. I presume a state where they don't > have an LEC presence wouldn't return anything. > Does AT&T provide LEC service in Illinois?
Yes. But their phone book publishing subsidiary doesn't publish the phone books. Reuben H. Donnelley is the business listings publisher and the directories are a joint venture.
Anyway, I found http://dexpages.com/ which is supposed to do the same "look and feel" for their phone books in a dozen or so states, but it's been down for a few days.
In a message dated 11/3/2009 9:38:29 AM Central Standard Time,
sfdavidka...@yahoo.com writes: > Personally I haven't looked up anything in the white pages in at > least a year. So few residential users are listed that it's really > only a source for business listings, and if I already know the name > of the company (which is how the white pages are organized) then I > just look it up online.
In Oklahoma City, and I assume in other AT&T cities, the "white pages" are residential. The Yellow Pages have a section at the front, printed on white paper, which is an alphabetical listing of businesses.
Very handy if you can't guess what heading a business may be listed under.
> Yes. But their phone book publishing subsidiary doesn't publish the > phone books. Reuben H. Donnelley is the business listings publisher > and the directories are a joint venture.
Do you know where in Illinois AT&T provides LEC service? I presume it was not Ameritech territory. One, or more, independents?
Sam Spade <s...@coldmail.com> wrote: >Adam H. Kerman wrote: >>>Does AT&T provide LEC service in Illinois? >>Yes. But their phone book publishing subsidiary doesn't publish the >>phone books. Reuben H. Donnelley is the business listings publisher >>and the directories are a joint venture. >Do you know where in Illinois AT&T provides LEC service? I presume it >was not Ameritech territory. One, or more, independents?
Can you please be more specific with your question: ILEC or CLEC? Post-divestiture AT&T or SBC-renamed-AT&T?
Illinois Bell/Ameritech/SBC was the ILEC in nearly all of Chicago and suburbs and major downstate cities like Rockford, Springfield, some of the Illinois side of the Quad Cities, and a lot of the Illinois side of the St. Louis metropolitan area.
Post-divestiture AT&T was a CLEC when it was in the cable tv business, but those customers are now Comcast subscribers. AT&T was also a CLEC unrelated to cable television, apparently in non-cable areas, but I don't know what period that was in.
But CLECs don't have telephone book publishing subsidiaries for the communities they serve, so I'm lost on what you are getting at.
|
