I understand that Western Union was launching one of its Westar communication satellites with the Challenger and lost it. Apparently the insurance company wouldn't pay so WU lost about $100 million, and they were tight on money.
If anyone knows more, could they share it with us?
As mentioned in past discussions, it appeared that Western Union was doing all the right things in the 1960-1970s to position itself to be a high speed data communications provider. In 1967 WU published a report that accurately foresaw the _functionaltiy_ of today's Internet (if not necessarily the topology).
At this point in my reading I now have the impression (subject to change!) that WU failed because:
1) The loss of the satellite cost them critical cash and lost revenues.
2) WU's pioneer e-mail service, EasyLink, wasn't doing well. I don't know if it didn't have a big enough user base or it cost too much to run or they ran it lousy. But apparently WU lost big money on it when they hoped it would be the wave of the future.
3) MCI forced AT&T to increase the favorable rates it gave WU. While WU had much of its own lines, it still leased AT&T lines. In addition, companies were moving out of cities and old buildings where WU had its own wires (some buildings were wired to WU directly) to the suburbs where WU had no presence.
4) I don't know how well WU marketed its modern services. Despite adding many computer and communication specialists, the company 'atmosphere' may have remained old fashioned.
5) Telex was very important in 1980 but soon lost lustre as companies got their own inexpensive fax machines and personal computers.
hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > I understand that Western Union was launching one of its Westar > communication satellites with the Challenger and lost it. Apparently > the insurance company wouldn't pay so WU lost about $100 million, and > they were tight on money.
> If anyone knows more, could they share it with us?
The wiki entry says Loyds of London would not pay for the satellite loss because it was NOT an act of God.
On Oct 1, 10:44 am, Steve Stone <n2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The wiki entry says Loyds of London would not pay for the satellite loss > because it was NOT an act of God.
I saw that and was quite surprised. At first I thought LofL should've paid but then I realized it was a technical problem, not something like a hurricane, earthquake, lightning, etc.
Of course, the question then becomes why they didn't insure themselves against a technical malfunction, provided such insurance was available. Maybe it was seen as too high a risk. From time to time launches do fail.
As an aside, WU leased out channels on a satellite that it didn't have need for, and the income nearly paid for the satellite, yet they still had their channels to use. I am curious as to how much of their microwave network they used in the 1980s, how much of their own pole lines were still in use, and how much they had to lease from AT&T.
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:34:18 -0400, <hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote, in part:
> ... [snip] ...
> 5) Telex was very important in 1980 but soon lost lustre as companies > got their own inexpensive fax machines and personal computers.
Telex was important enough to me throughout the '80s, at least for quick communications across multiple time zones into eastern europe (Bulgarian universities, Polish travel agents), that its availability, through bidirectional email-telex gateways made available by MCI Mail and ATT Mail was one of the big reasons I retained both those services as long as I did in those days.
While other universities had adopted email by then, it wasn't 'til quite late in the '80s that one Bulgarian university finally got a (flaky) Bitnet connection for email, and Polish travel agencies -- at least the one Warsaw WagonsLits Cook place I had to deal with -- never did get email before they finally went under sometime in the '90s.
These days, of course, some 20 years later, they all have both fax and email (though they tend to think it important to save electricity by turning their fax machines off while the shop is closed overnight).
Cheers, -- tlvp -- Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP
hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > 5) Telex was very important in 1980 but soon lost lustre as companies > got their own inexpensive fax machines and personal computers.
Telex remained important throughout the 1980s for communicating to the undeveloped world (Africa, Central America). Even into the early 1990s it could be difficult to fax even a place as developed as Turkey, because their phone systems were so bad. I still remember the poor guy in Turkey we kept waking up, because the fax number for the consultant we were dealing with kept ringing to this guy's home phone. To this day the only words of Turkish I know are "'Allo? 'Allo?"
> I am curious as to how much of their microwave network > they used in the 1980s, how much of their own pole lines > were still in use, and how much they had to lease from > AT&T.
Now that's a fascinating question. In my experience, I'd say that WU owned zero poles, but I suppose there's an exception somewhere. However, WU did own conduit-and-manhole structures as late as 1986.
In my entire career in the cable TV industry (1976-2000), I never encountered a single utility pole owned by Western Union. In fact, before I read your question, it hadn't occurred to me that WE might still own any poles.
Cable TV companies typically lease pole-attachment rights from other pole owners. Although most poles are owned by electric power or telephone companies, I've written permit applications for poles owned by municipal governments, county governments, state governments, the federal government, private landowners, educational institutions, other cable TV companies, and railroads.
On Oct 3, 5:44 pm, Neal McLain <nmcl...@annsgarden.com> wrote:
> > I am curious as to how much of their microwave network > > they used in the 1980s, how much of their own pole lines > > were still in use, and how much they had to lease from > > AT&T.
> Now that's a fascinating question. In my experience, I'd say that WU > owned zero poles, but I suppose there's an exception somewhere. > However, WU did own conduit-and-manhole structures as late as 1986.
WU had to transmit data from its microwave terminals to its end users as well as service locations not connected by microwave. According to a Sept 1980 NYT article, WU paid AT&T $106 million for leased lines in 1979, but if it didn't own its own network it would have to spend another $30 million. "The WU network reaches 35 major cities across the US and offers direct access and extension channels to most other areas of the nation". The article noted WU's unfunded pension liability was a concern. Later articles noted the high number of pensioners relative to the number of employees.
> In my entire career in the cable TV industry (1976-2000), I never > encountered a single utility pole owned by Western Union. In fact, > before I read your question, it hadn't occurred to me that WE might > still own any poles.
I wonder when they discontinued their pole lines. In 1975 AT&T still used some pole lines for toll service, though almost everything was on microwave or coax by that point.
Perhaps WU's lines were more concentrated on railroads.
As late as 1965 WU still had some Morse lines in service, which, understandably, they didn't like to brag about.
> Cable TV companies typically lease pole-attachment rights from other > pole owners. Although most poles are owned by electric power or > telephone companies, I've written permit applications for poles owned > by municipal governments, county governments, state governments, the > federal government, private landowners, educational institutions, > other cable TV companies, and railroads.
Did you ever utilize poles owned by street railroads or electric railroads? Street railroad power is only 600 V, but many electrified railroads were 11,000 V.
***** Moderator's Note *****
I'm curious which location(s) still had Morse circuits in operation in 1965: I'm a member of the Morse Telegraph Club, and the history of Morse always interests me.
> In my entire career in the cable TV industry (1976-2000), I never > encountered a single utility pole owned by Western Union. In fact, > before I read your question, it hadn't occurred to me that WE might > still own any poles.
I think most of W.U. pole lines ran along railroads, so they might not have been where you would have encountered them.
> I'm curious which location(s) still had Morse circuits in operation in > 1965: I'm a member of the Morse Telegraph Club, and the history of > Morse always interests me.
In the WU newsletters they mentioned lines out in the west in service circa 1960. (I thought I submitted that as a post here).
The 1965 reference was a side mention of operator's duties in NYC. That is, apparently in the main buliding in New York they still had a Morse station in 1965. I don't know what it connected to. I got the impression from context that it was not frequently used.
In its heydey, Western Union switched trunk circuits around to accomodate traffic flow. For example, a political convention or presidential visit required extra circuits for media staff to use. I suspect the 1965 Morse circuit was an older backup circuit. The 1960 circuits out west appeared to regular trunks.
As Mr. Haynes mentions, perhaps this line served railroad needs.
> I'm curious which location(s) still had Morse circuits in operation in > 1965: I'm a member of the Morse Telegraph Club, and the history of > Morse always interests me.
> Bill Horne > Moderator
At the Museum of Communications in Seattle, Washington, their exhibit on toll facilities includes information related to using Morse between toll testboards in the Bell System in days before (probably) the early 1960s or so. One of the docents there (a former toll testboardman) is still proud of his ability to send and receive at a fairly good rate! It's a great museum, incidentally, and merits a visit if you're in Seattle. And it's just down the road from the Boeing Museum of Flight, another excellent museum!
> > I'm curious which location(s) still had Morse circuits in operation in > > 1965: I'm a member of the Morse Telegraph Club, and the history of > > Morse always interests me.
> In the WU newsletters they mentioned lines out in the west in service > circa 1960. (I thought I submitted that as a post here).
> The 1965 reference was a side mention of operator's duties in NYC. > That is, apparently in the main buliding in New York they still had a > Morse station in 1965. I don't know what it connected to. I got the > impression from context that it was not frequently used.
> In its heydey,WesternUnionswitched trunk circuits around to > accomodate traffic flow. For example, a political convention or > presidential visit required extra circuits for media staff to use. I > suspect the 1965 Morse circuit was an older backup circuit. The 1960 > circuits out west appeared to regular trunks.
> As Mr. Haynes mentions, perhaps this line served railroad needs.
I worked for WU 30 years in Kansas City. I removed the last morse station in 1968.
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