There doesn't seem to be one mention of countries being able to meet their obligations under any Climate Change Agreement by reference to their rate of population growth.
That's an absolute cop out by the population stretched countries with runaway birthrates.
Australia should walk from this process, cut our losses, and work with the countries in our region and our allies to forge our own way forwards to focus entirely on adaptation.
The CPRS should be abandoned.
We should build 5 new coal power stations, and one nuclear power station, near our coastline solely for the outputs application to the desalination and pumping of water.
> There doesn't seem to be one mention of countries being able to meet > their obligations under any Climate Change Agreement by reference to > their rate of population growth.
> That's an absolute cop out by the population stretched countries with > runaway birthrates.
> Australia should walk from this process, cut our losses, and work with > the countries in our region and our allies to forge our own way > forwards to focus entirely on adaptation.
> The CPRS should be abandoned.
> We should build 5 new coal power stations, and one nuclear power > station, near our coastline solely for the outputs application to the > desalination and pumping of water.
On Nov 8, 12:06 pm, Honest truth <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote:
> CPRS is all just for show. They are yet to show that green house gases are > the cause of global warming.
It is more likely that green house gases are the cause of global warming than anything else. It is evident to people all over the world that significant natural CO2 capturing organisms like forests have been reduced, and that oil and coal has been burnt at rates many magnitudes greater than the natural storage processes that created them.
No one will argue with that.
That the bonds in CO2 molecules have characteristics that abosrob and re-emit infrared, and that the 3 dimensional geometry of a linear non IR source [sun] and a linear IR source [earths surface] and a random reimission profile in 3 dimensions of a group of CO2 molecules in the atmosphere creates warming is also accepted.
No one will argue with that.
The argument against that being the start and the end of the matter are:
- The CO2 warming effect has reached saturation and while is did cause a rise there is no further rise as a result of more [only so much sunlight hits earth - eventually the IR is absorbed as much as it can be]. BUT there are no graphs you can produce that show the rate of temperature rise has gone straight line. In fact those who disagree with the link between CO2 and temperatire claim the world is cooling as CO2 is increasing].
- Yes CO2 is a part of the picture but other things that vary have a greater impact [variation in what the sun emits]. BUT the time for electromagnetic radiation to pass through a distance that is the radius of the sun is 2.3 secs [speed of light 299,792 km/sec; radius of sun 700,000km] and so vibrations of outputs of processes associated with EMR could not be of the magnitude of years or decades or centuries, and the sun is 1/4 the density of the earth so that doesn't support a thought that mechanism of transmission of changed circumstances through the sun would be slower than in earth [you would have to determine what is the slowest transmission of a process that started in the centre of the earth to reach the crust with a bit of interaction within that process some idea as to whether it could vibrate in years or decades or 100's of years. The suns radius is 109 times larger than earth, so given it's 1/4 the density, lets say that it has the capacity to push processes around in it for 25 times longer than the earth. Form there given that the 99.9% of all the matter in pur solar system it must be bloody dense in the middle, so as we can observe that change transmission across space seems to be inversely proportional to density [stand back from a fire and you feel it in second, put a motlen lead in the pool and it will take some towards minutes, put molten lead in a hole in the ground and back fill it and it will take more etc etc] there could be some very slow change transmission rates and in the centre of the sun and so processes could bubble away in there for larger time periods . SO at least at a first look at the topic here vibrations of process and thus process outputs at the surface of the sun seem like they could be years and so on. BUT given that the sun is a sphere it is rational that the bit we get on earth is exactly the bit emitted by a piece of the suns surface exactly the same area as the area as that occupied by the earth [pie r sqaured]. Does the sun rotate? Yes but in days so if proceses are trapped in a dense core working there way through outputing to the surface as they do so the rotaion of the sun doesn't explain decades. Monthly changes but not yearly changes.
And your still left with the thought that down the beach there are frequencies within frequencies [waves, sun rise and set, moon rise and set, earth wobble] and the existance of one doesn't deny the existance of the other.
> >There doesn't seem to be one mention of countries being able to meet > > their obligations under any Climate Change Agreement by reference to > > their rate of population growth.
> > That's an absolute cop out by the population stretched countries with > > runaway birthrates.
> > Australia should walk from this process, cut our losses, and work with > > the countries in our region and our allies to forge our own way > > forwards to focus entirely on adaptation.
> > The CPRS should be abandoned.
> > We should build 5 new coal power stations, and one nuclear power > > station, near our coastline solely for the outputs application to the > > desalination and pumping of water.- Hide quoted text -
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:16:16 -0800 (PST), jason wrote: > On Nov 8, 12:06 pm, Honest truth <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote: >> CPRS is all just for show. They are yet to show that green house gases are >> the cause of global warming.
> It is more likely that green house gases are the cause of global > warming than anything else. It is evident to people all over the world > that significant natural CO2 capturing organisms like forests have > been reduced, and that oil and coal has been burnt at rates many > magnitudes greater than the natural storage processes that created > them.
> No one will argue with that.
Plenty argue against this simplistic model. The facts are the sun is getting hotter.
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:16:16 -0800 (PST), jason wrote: > > On Nov 8, 12:06 pm, Honest truth <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote: > >> CPRS is all just for show. They are yet to show that green house gases are > >> the cause of global warming.
> > It is more likely that green house gases are the cause of global > > warming than anything else. It is evident to people all over the world > > that significant natural CO2 capturing organisms like forests have > > been reduced, and that oil and coal has been burnt at rates many > > magnitudes greater than the natural storage processes that created > > them.
> > No one will argue with that.
> Plenty argue against this simplistic model. The facts are the sun is > getting hotter.
If the sun is getting hotter, then those things that trap IR will cause temperatures to rise further - wont they?
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 22:04:15 -0800 (PST), jason wrote: > On Nov 8, 4:00 pm, Honest truth <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote: >> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:16:16 -0800 (PST), jason wrote: >>> On Nov 8, 12:06 pm, Honest truth <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote: >>>> CPRS is all just for show. They are yet to show that green house gases are >>>> the cause of global warming.
>>> It is more likely that green house gases are the cause of global >>> warming than anything else. It is evident to people all over the world >>> that significant natural CO2 capturing organisms like forests have >>> been reduced, and that oil and coal has been burnt at rates many >>> magnitudes greater than the natural storage processes that created >>> them.
>>> No one will argue with that.
>> Plenty argue against this simplistic model. The facts are the sun is >> getting hotter.
> If the sun is getting hotter, then those things that trap IR will > cause temperatures to rise further - wont they?
What if these gases are not relevant to global warming?