>>Unfortunately you are right. But the real crime was in the policy makers who >>brought Middle Eastern people to Australia in the first place. There was no >>need for it. There was no pressing from the public to bring them here. I >>don't know what hidden qualities they have that some policy maker thought it >>necessary that we should exploit.
> I'm confused by your comments.
> Policy makers do not "bring" Middle Eastern people to Australia, in > the first place. The US took that approach, from Africa, a couple of > centuries ago. People (from anywhere) wish to come ot Australia, and > it's the qualities of individuals that are "exploited", not of a whole > region or religion.
> Your comments presume guilt before innocence. Simply wrong.
> -- > Chris.
What qualities do Middle Eastern people have that would enhance the life of Australians. That's what I meant. For two hundred years Australians had built a pretty good life out of a very harsh environment. What qualities were needed from Middle Eastern people to improve on that.
No doubt the Chinese and the Kanakas also had qualities but the White anglo Australians could not live with them and shipped them back where they came from. Thus the country lived free from social disruption over religious differences. I'm saying that certain policy changes were carried out in the 1970s with no reference to the past experience. This is not intelligent action. It was an agenda of certain academics for some reason that no-one wants to question.
"Stan Pierce" <ecre...@bigpond.net.au> writes: >What qualities do Middle Eastern people have that would enhance the life of >Australians. That's what I meant.
>Thus the country lived free from social disruption over religious differences. >I'm saying that certain policy changes were carried out in the 1970s with no >reference to the past experience. This is not intelligent action. It was an >agenda of certain academics for some reason that no-one wants to question.
I'm an Australia and am in contact, daily, with people originally from Middle Eastern countries and, in particular, they enhance my professional life with differing ideas and points of view.
These people, some of whom are now Australians too, have a different religion than I do but (as I have no religion) then Christians have a different religion, too. So what? These people are not automatically socially disruptive simply because they have a different (or any) religion.
Yes, people from other regions could (and do) equally do this and, possibly, the people I interact with may not enhance your life - but so what?
You appear to want to categorise whole geographic regions and religions as either acceptable or as socially disruptive because of their religion. There's no basis for such generalisations.
>>What qualities do Middle Eastern people have that would enhance the life of >>Australians. That's what I meant.
>>Thus the country lived free from social disruption over religious differences. >>I'm saying that certain policy changes were carried out in the 1970s with no >>reference to the past experience. This is not intelligent action. It was an >>agenda of certain academics for some reason that no-one wants to question.
> I'm an Australia and am in contact, daily, with people originally from > Middle Eastern countries and, in particular, they enhance my professional > life with differing ideas and points of view.
> These people, some of whom are now Australians too, have a different > religion than I do but (as I have no religion) then Christians have a > different religion, too. So what? These people are not automatically > socially disruptive simply because they have a different (or any) > religion.
> Yes, people from other regions could (and do) equally do this and, > possibly, the people I interact with may not enhance your life - but > so what?
> You appear to want to categorise whole geographic regions and religions > as either acceptable or as socially disruptive because of their religion. > There's no basis for such generalisations.
> Chris.
Oh but unfortunately, there is. It's called evidence.
"Stan Pierce" <ecre...@bigpond.net.au> writes: >> You appear to want to categorise whole geographic regions and religions >> as either acceptable or as socially disruptive because of their religion. >> There's no basis for such generalisations.
>> Chris. >Oh but unfortunately, there is. It's called evidence.
Oh, the insightful debate of the one-liner. Seems to sound the death knell of this discussion.
> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:29:09 +1030 > From: artie morty <artiemo...@yahoo.com.au> > Subject: Re: WHITE POWER!
> This works 2 ways Chris.
> You are implying that immigrants from the middle east are basically > good people and should not be tarnished because of the criminal > actions of a few of them.
> Have you ever thought that immigrants from the middle east may all be > basically criminalistic, and that you are seeing them in a good light > because of your interaction with a few of them are not criminal in > behaviour.
> I am not saying this is the case, but your statement and attitude > certainly shows an individual bias from your own unique experience, > not an overall prospective.
> Perhaps everyone should have a more open mind on this matter - for > both the positive and negative side of middle eastern immigration.
And thanks for your email, Artie. Unclear why you chose not to share it with all interested readers.
Anyone's point of view, call it an individual bias if you insist, comes from our own experiences - be they direct experiences, or what we read about, etc. I'm unclear why you feel that I don't have an open mind on this, simply because I don't take the impossible stance of agreeing with the sentiments of all others?
Eunometic wrote: > > > I said that Middle East immigrants (as reported in the paper) are > > > usually Lebanese Muslims in Australia. I believe this to be correct. I > > > do not think you really believe these people are Lebanese Christians, > > > do you? > > They could be Christians. Lebanese Christians have been migrating to > > Western countries for the past one hundred years, if not longer. And > > that is why most Lebanese in Western countries 'are' Christians. > > Lebanese Muslims, on the other hand, rarely migrate but they do find > > jobs in Gulf countries and usually return back to Lebanon. > Christian marionite lebanese and coptic egyptian christians have been > around for a long time, including in number in Cronulla when I was > there 30 years ago; we got along fairly well. They've never been > problems and fitted in with the culture. At that time though there > were two differencess: > 1 we weren't feeling the impact of Paul Keatings and Bob Hawks maximum > scumbag immigrantion program; we were selective and migrants actually > had lower crime rates than Australians: now many of them have much > more . > 2 the numbers hadn't gotten to the point that 'ghettoisation' was > happening.
In Cornulla, what do you think is the percentage of Lebanese Christians/Copts vs. Muslims?
> It must also be remembered that Christian Marionites are descendents of > Cannaintwes and Phoenecians have a fine ancesty of trading and share a > strong religious culture with the West (christianity started there).
Actually, many Lebanese Christians don't even think of themselves as "Arabs." Some of them, like the Turks, identify themselves with Europeans. But that could be because of inferiority complex brought about by the French rule over Lebanon decades ago.
> Thus both religiously, culturally and historically they are more > compatible. They are far more assimilable than the muslims that > immigrated into Lebanon and made those marionites a minority such that > they inally lost power in a country there were once the majority.
Muslims in Lebanon weren't all migrants. Most of them are descendants of native Lebanese and Syrian Christians who converted to Islam long time ago.
> Anway you can usually spot a Christian lebanese; they are somehow > different in their attitudes to the muzzies.
Muzzies?
> They seem to genuinely have girlfriends for instance and hang out in > mixed sex groups. > I must say they probably do get up to mischief more than they should > but its not so bloody minded.
What kind of mischief?
You seem like a reasonable person, so let me ask you a couple of questions while I still have you, but you'll have to be totally honest with your answers.
1. Do most Anglos [Australians who are of English descent] find themselves superior to other ethnic groups?
2. Would Australia have been a better country if it had not allowed non-Caucasian immigrants?
>>> You appear to want to categorise whole geographic regions and religions >>> as either acceptable or as socially disruptive because of their religion. >>> There's no basis for such generalisations.
>>> Chris.
>>Oh but unfortunately, there is. It's called evidence.
>Oh, the insightful debate of the one-liner. >Seems to sound the death knell of this discussion.
>> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:29:09 +1030 >> From: artie morty <artiemo...@yahoo.com.au> >> Subject: Re: WHITE POWER!
>> This works 2 ways Chris.
>> You are implying that immigrants from the middle east are basically >> good people and should not be tarnished because of the criminal >> actions of a few of them.
>> Have you ever thought that immigrants from the middle east may all be >> basically criminalistic, and that you are seeing them in a good light >> because of your interaction with a few of them are not criminal in >> behaviour.
>> I am not saying this is the case, but your statement and attitude >> certainly shows an individual bias from your own unique experience, >> not an overall prospective.
>> Perhaps everyone should have a more open mind on this matter - for >> both the positive and negative side of middle eastern immigration.
>And thanks for your email, Artie. >Unclear why you chose not to share it with all interested readers.
>Anyone's point of view, call it an individual bias if you insist, comes >from our own experiences - be they direct experiences, or what we read >about, etc. I'm unclear why you feel that I don't have an open mind on >this, simply because I don't take the impossible stance of agreeing with >the sentiments of all others?
Sorry Chris - just started using Forte Agent and pressed the wrong button. If I can find the damn thing, I will post it correctly to the group.
>>What qualities do Middle Eastern people have that would enhance the life of >>Australians. That's what I meant.
>>Thus the country lived free from social disruption over religious differences. >>I'm saying that certain policy changes were carried out in the 1970s with no >>reference to the past experience. This is not intelligent action. It was an >>agenda of certain academics for some reason that no-one wants to question.
>I'm an Australia and am in contact, daily, with people originally from >Middle Eastern countries and, in particular, they enhance my professional >life with differing ideas and points of view.
>These people, some of whom are now Australians too, have a different >religion than I do but (as I have no religion) then Christians have a >different religion, too. So what? These people are not automatically >socially disruptive simply because they have a different (or any) >religion.
>Yes, people from other regions could (and do) equally do this and, >possibly, the people I interact with may not enhance your life - but >so what?
>You appear to want to categorise whole geographic regions and religions >as either acceptable or as socially disruptive because of their religion. >There's no basis for such generalisations.
This works 2 ways Chris.
You are implying that immigrants from the middle east are basically good people and should not be tarnished because of the criminal actions of a few of them.
Have you ever thought that immigrants from the middle east may all be basically criminalistic, and that you are seeing them in a good light because of your interaction with a few of them are not criminal in behaviour.
I am not saying this is the case, but your statement and attitude certainly shows an individual bias from your own unique experience, not an overall prospective.
Perhaps everyone should have a more open mind on this matter - for both the positive and negative side of middle eastern immigration.
>>> You appear to want to categorise whole geographic regions and religions >>> as either acceptable or as socially disruptive because of their religion. >>> There's no basis for such generalisations.
>>> Chris.
>>Oh but unfortunately, there is. It's called evidence.
>Oh, the insightful debate of the one-liner. >Seems to sound the death knell of this discussion.
>> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:29:09 +1030 >> From: artie morty <artiemo...@yahoo.com.au> >> Subject: Re: WHITE POWER!
>> This works 2 ways Chris.
>> You are implying that immigrants from the middle east are basically >> good people and should not be tarnished because of the criminal >> actions of a few of them.
>> Have you ever thought that immigrants from the middle east may all be >> basically criminalistic, and that you are seeing them in a good light >> because of your interaction with a few of them are not criminal in >> behaviour.
>> I am not saying this is the case, but your statement and attitude >> certainly shows an individual bias from your own unique experience, >> not an overall prospective.
>> Perhaps everyone should have a more open mind on this matter - for >> both the positive and negative side of middle eastern immigration.
>And thanks for your email, Artie. >Unclear why you chose not to share it with all interested readers.
>Anyone's point of view, call it an individual bias if you insist, comes >from our own experiences - be they direct experiences, or what we read >about, etc. I'm unclear why you feel that I don't have an open mind on >this, simply because I don't take the impossible stance of agreeing with >the sentiments of all others?
Ah - I think I have it working - hope I haven't stuffed up the tone of the thread.
Sorry - I didn't mean it to be a personal attack on your own views or open mindedness.
Simply an overall perspective that people tend to judge on their own experience, which is of course the natural thing to do, but does look at things from one side only.
I personally cannot understand why some of these people come to Oz to escape the persecution, crime, poverty and grief in their own countries and then continue the same stuff here.
I mean they have a chance to live a pretty good life if they want it.
Got me beat.
I can only assume it is in their nature, that they don't want to change, or that they simply don't give a crap.
All in all, it show a great lack of respect for Australia and its people, who after all did take them in - and it makes me wonder if immigration is a thing that Australia needs at this time of world trouble and religious fundamentalism.
We are now seeing the flipside of multicultural policies and the ignoring of the telltale signs.
Anger in wider the community has been simmering for years and it only takes an issue like Cronulla to bring it to the forefront. It could happen anywhere at anytime.
The PC bridgade, the apologists, the politicians and the hand-wringers have been trying to talk up the virtues of multiculturalsim and hide the facts for years, but those who are awake saw this coming.
The crowd acted in the very same manner you would expect third-worlders to - the influence of multiculturalism.
> We are now seeing the flipside of multicultural policies and the > ignoring of the telltale signs.
> Anger in wider the community has been simmering for years and it only > takes an issue like Cronulla to bring it to the forefront. It could > happen anywhere at anytime.
> The PC bridgade, the apologists, the politicians and the hand-wringers > have been trying to talk up the virtues of multiculturalsim and hide > the facts for years, but those who are awake saw this coming.
> The crowd acted in the very same manner you would expect third-worlders > to - the influence of multiculturalism.
Also, the use of mobile phones to connect like minds to action. This is going to change societies radically. It could cause police to shut down phone systems temporarily to control unrest spreading. Another cost to the multicultural mantra.
On 10 Dec 2005 23:39:23 -0800, "SHEP" <jmcch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>We are now seeing the flipside of multicultural policies and the >ignoring of the telltale signs.
>Anger in wider the community has been simmering for years and it only >takes an issue like Cronulla to bring it to the forefront. It could >happen anywhere at anytime.
>The PC bridgade, the apologists, the politicians and the hand-wringers >have been trying to talk up the virtues of multiculturalsim and hide >the facts for years, but those who are awake saw this coming.
>The crowd acted in the very same manner you would expect third-worlders >to - the influence of multiculturalism.
The Pittwater factor where 25% swings against mainstream politicians who don't listen to the electorate are indicating a new world order
Now there may be a calling where true Australian citizens are not going to be tamed by political (in) correct mainstream parties and end up having to take matters into own hands.
The Cronulla incident was forced onto it's Shire people, just as passengers in a Plane have to take matters into there own hands when Islamic's are on board or face death
Petzl -- Australia is a Christian nation, Australian society is based on Christian values and on Christian principles. We have nothing to be ashamed of in stating that. We have nothing to be ashamed of in our Christian heritage and Christian achievements
> > Anger in wider the community has been simmering for years and it only > > takes an issue like Cronulla to bring it to the forefront. It could > > happen anywhere at anytime.
> > The PC bridgade, the apologists, the politicians and the hand-wringers > > have been trying to talk up the virtues of multiculturalsim and hide > > the facts for years, but those who are awake saw this coming.
> > The crowd acted in the very same manner you would expect third-worlders > > to - the influence of multiculturalism.
> Also, the use of mobile phones to connect like minds to action. This is going > to change societies radically. It could cause police to shut down phone systems > temporarily to control unrest spreading. Another cost to the multicultural > mantra.
Stan Pierce <ecre...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > Also, the use of mobile phones to connect like minds to action. This is > going to change societies radically. It could cause police to shut down > phone systems temporarily to control unrest spreading. Another cost to > the multicultural mantra.
You're off your rocker, Stan. You may as well apply the same argument to cars, trains and planes, because they also connect like minds to action. I thought Ferdie was the one who managed to twist every story into an anti-multiculturalist diatribe, but you win this week's award. Even though there's 6 days to go.... no-one will beat this lulu.
> On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 11:45:50 GMT, Damien McBain > <as...@ifyawantit.invalid> wrote:
>>VoteFromTheRooftops committed to the eternal aether...:
>>> kangarooistan, keep talking shit, you will see on sunday.
>>> sayid, we dont hate you, unless your in our country.
>>> lebanese gang rape, steal, murder etc at a rate of 30x the general >>> population. >>> people have had enough of these gutless fags
>>Don't go using "we" too losely fool. >>From my perspective, any peaceful and respectful person who can make a >>contribution and an effort to fit in is welcome here irrespective of where >>they're from. Generalisations and sedicious comments like yours only make >>things worse.
> There was a gang of Lebanese men living around the Glenelg area in > Adelaide a couple of years ago.
> Their motto was 'Bash an Aussie a day'.
> And they beat the crap out of many - to the point of pulling people > (men women and kids, but mostly older boys) from their yards to do it.
> They were hard to enforce because they used the numbers of their gang > very effectively to intimidate law enforcement.
> The locals got together and set up roving patrols to try and stop > these bastards - but the gang became so big it was impossible to stop > them.
> They were eventually brought under control by being picked up by the > police individually, when, without the power of the gang behind them, > they cried like the pathetic whimps they were, and spilled their guts > on their gang friends.
> Point is - the police did little until the locals made a move > themselves. And then the police had to act or bashing would have > turned to killing.
> The real problem is dealing with these Lebanese gang members on an > intellectual level. They are uneducated bully's who come from a > culture that lives on crime.
Maybe sending a few of the offenders home to Beirut would be sobering for them. That type doesn't belong here.
> Their parents and friends are all the same - low life two bit crooks, > who, unless stopped, develop into the Lebanese Crime Syndicates that > have infiltrated the world just like the mafia from last century.
> They either live the life of a criminal, or work where their education > and talents take them, namely the cleaning, fast food or courier > delivery industries.
Don't for get taxis
> I'm sure that not every Lebanese male is a filthy dirty gang rapist > criminal - but sadly there seem to be a hell of a lot who are.
It is not helpful to generalise.
> Unfortunately, if Cronulla is anything like the problem here in > Glenelg, the locals may have to take matters into their own hands.
The only Lebo I know is a young father in his 20s, he's an aussie and a mick.
>VoteFromTheRooftops wrote: >lets hope these filthy lebs get whats comming to them! >on sunday every white person in the area that still gives a shit about >this country will meet at cronulla beach to beat the living shit out of >any muslim/arab in sight. >lets hope this spreads to the rest of the country until this filth is >eradicated! >25,000 are expected to turn up, including sydneys biggest bike gang and >stormfront.
Your message has just been passed on to the special NSW Police taskforce, set up to arrest perpetrators of this racial violence.
You have 'incited violence against the community' and violated 'anti-racial villification' laws.
The Five-O are desperately looking to make examples out of people and you fit the bill perfectly.
> >VoteFromTheRooftops wrote: > >lets hope these filthy lebs get whats comming to them! > >on sunday every white person in the area that still gives a shit about > >this country will meet at cronulla beach to beat the living shit out of > >any muslim/arab in sight. > >lets hope this spreads to the rest of the country until this filth is > >eradicated! > >25,000 are expected to turn up, including sydneys biggest bike gang and > >stormfront.
> Your message has just been passed on to the special NSW Police > taskforce, set up to arrest perpetrators of this racial violence.
> You have 'incited violence against the community' and violated > 'anti-racial villification' laws.
> The Five-O are desperately looking to make examples out of people and > you fit the bill perfectly.
> You are very foolish man.
Your silly-ass "hate speech" laws don't mean shit our side of the pond, mate.
> >VoteFromTheRooftops wrote: > >lets hope these filthy lebs get whats comming to them! > >on sunday every white person in the area that still gives a shit about > >this country will meet at cronulla beach to beat the living shit out of > >any muslim/arab in sight. > >lets hope this spreads to the rest of the country until this filth is > >eradicated! > >25,000 are expected to turn up, including sydneys biggest bike gang and > >stormfront.
> Your message has just been passed on to the special NSW Police > taskforce, set up to arrest perpetrators of this racial violence.
> You have 'incited violence against the community' and violated > 'anti-racial villification' laws.
> The Five-O are desperately looking to make examples out of people and > you fit the bill perfectly.
> >VoteFromTheRooftops wrote: >>lets hope these filthy lebs get whats comming to them! >>on sunday every white person in the area that still gives a shit about >>this country will meet at cronulla beach to beat the living shit out of >>any muslim/arab in sight. >>lets hope this spreads to the rest of the country until this filth is >>eradicated! >>25,000 are expected to turn up, including sydneys biggest bike gang and >>stormfront.
> Your message has just been passed on to the special NSW Police > taskforce, set up to arrest perpetrators of this racial violence.
> You have 'incited violence against the community' and violated > 'anti-racial villification' laws.
> The Five-O are desperately looking to make examples out of people and > you fit the bill perfectly.
> You are very foolish man.
> Blair
You are a foolish man by using what is supposed discussion forum, and making it nothing more then a politically correct group like the media. This is the only place you actually the views of real people not about just the one person hates Christmas, you hear the responses by the people who love Christmas you hear real opinions not coxed up and edited by other communication tools. You hear the real world. EG if 90% of Australians think marijuana should be legalised the media only shows you the few who are against it. No matter what gibberish people speak we should try hold on to this idea that we actually have a say before these groups become regulated and we can not have a differing opinion. We speak of free speech all the time and you have proven that it is not the case. The police have used Terror to take away our rights, and increase power as well as using words like "paedophiles pray on children in forums and chat rooms to help close these vital discussion boards down. I know you are more then likely bluffing to scare this guy into not inciting violence, and even if your not as if the police are going to give a shit about a post on a news group. There a thousand post for and against this topic. But you bring up a greater point. This will end the last freedom you actually have.
HE IS A WHITE CHRISTIAN CAPITALIST RIGHTWING RACIST
And he is why 100,000 more people are muslims EVERY day
Be patient , OVER 100,000 more muslims again tommorow and one day we will bring them to ACCOUNT for their actions
AND this is why the REDNECK RACISTS are so angry, they know its coming they can not handle the thought of being asked to justify wot they have done for 500yrs
> "Blair Kavanagh" <blairoma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1134400766.054809.48180@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > >VoteFromTheRooftops wrote: > > >lets hope these filthy lebs get whats comming to them! > > >on sunday every white person in the area that still gives a shit about > > >this country will meet at cronulla beach to beat the living shit out of > > >any muslim/arab in sight. > > >lets hope this spreads to the rest of the country until this filth is > > >eradicated! > > >25,000 are expected to turn up, including sydneys biggest bike gang and > > >stormfront.
> > Your message has just been passed on to the special NSW Police > > taskforce, set up to arrest perpetrators of this racial violence.
> > You have 'incited violence against the community' and violated > > 'anti-racial villification' laws.
> > The Five-O are desperately looking to make examples out of people and > > you fit the bill perfectly.
> > You are very foolish man.
> Your silly-ass "hate speech" laws don't mean shit our side of the pond, > mate.
> By all means, ADVANCE, AUSTRALIA FAIR!
Is "Byker" another term for Gay Biker? Your bonehead mates might not like to know that about you. Seeing as they take after Nikki Crane, after all!!!! Wasn't there a biker in the Village People? Is that you?
Is "Dean T" another term for Dean Torrance, who'd turn a corner and plow into the back of a parked big rig, leaving him a semi-vegetable for the rest of his life?
<blairoma...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>VoteFromTheRooftops wrote: >>lets hope these filthy lebs get whats comming to them! >>on sunday every white person in the area that still gives a shit about >>this country will meet at cronulla beach to beat the living shit out of >>any muslim/arab in sight. >>lets hope this spreads to the rest of the country until this filth is >>eradicated! >>25,000 are expected to turn up, including sydneys biggest bike gang and >>stormfront.
>Your message has just been passed on to the special NSW Police >taskforce, set up to arrest perpetrators of this racial violence.
>You have 'incited violence against the community' and violated >'anti-racial villification' laws.
>The Five-O are desperately looking to make examples out of people and >you fit the bill perfectly.
>You are very foolish man.
>Blair
You forgot to mention this whole thing occured because a gang of Lebanese thugs beat up some life guards at Cronulla.
You are a bigot and a rascist against Australia and the way of life Australians love, and you havn't the guts to tell the whole truth.
There is no rascism here - only a hatred of gang violence against Australians.
And if you want gang violence, where do you look?
The Lebanese.
I suggest you read a post by Siegfriedson, 13/12/05, 'An Aussie explains the Race Riots'.
Sets it out in black and white.
It's easy to blame rascism for any problem that occurs.
Until the Lebanese admit there is a problem with their men,and try to fix it, they will remain a hated and despised race.
And with a leader like that ignorant animal Keyser Tran, what do the Lebanese expect.
As for you - you moron:
I, like many others, are sick of the fact that our Oz are women are afraid of being raped (how do they say it - Lebanese style) and our children of being beaten and our men of being killed, by your gangs of Lebanese compatriates.
Do us all a favour and the lot of you - just go away!.
|
