Theo Bekkers wrote: > Zebee Johnstone wrote: >> EuanB wrote: >>> Theo Bekkers Wrote: >>>>> Melbourne trains need to be re-fit with bench seats along the >>>>> sides, and wide open standing spaces. That's all there is to it. >>>> Until there is a major accident, and then we will have the seatbelt >>>> brigade >>>> out in full cry. >>> That doesn't seem to be a problem in London, Paris, Rome, Japan etc >>> etc. >> Neither are bicycle head injuries apparently. But you will note that >> doesn't stop the Oz Govt...
> ROTFL. Seat-belts on school buses are a hot item here in the West ATM. > Current situation is that the Gov't wont allow them to be fitted by the > operators (at the operator's cost) because it will set a precedent and all > parents will expect school buses to be fitted with them.
They aren't actually stopping operators in vic fitting belts to school buses but they tried to a while back.
The fact that they were attempting to do so reached the media and they back pedalled.
Might be worth a letter to the papers or a call to a TV show...
You are so hypocritical you have storage lockers in the loop stations at all.You have not addressed or made transaprent your method of gaining data that appers to besed on your own view point experincees and observations.
You consider a bike to be a car, locked at a station, and returned to, I bike is far more flexible than a car and can be used outstandingly with a reilable and friendly train service to service many mulitpse locations frequemtlu with no parking /congestion hassles throuh the greater area of zone one.
you have not faced the securing and redelegation of the two or three drivers compartments on each train, the praxctise of carrrying the cycles in the rear compartment. All bikes too the back carriage, the greta in crease in the no of bicycle being used for and relied on for transport the long term short sitedness in of your outlook in terms of the environment.
Iam sure you will get grease on your suit from your next obsticle.
Verify and demonstrate the with proof that any passanger that has been refused or unable to get tranport adequately directly because of a bicycle and not the packing of the train, or anyone of a number of factors. I can tell "what you enjoy" from our phone call: "Its my decision and I am right and everyone else can just suffer, get your greasy bike away from my suit. I only ride on the weekends for fun"
What on earth did you do to Bicycle Victoria to get them to advocate your ...?
The people of Victoria know what is right and how far down in quality, desirability and safety the sububan rail network has gone over the past 15 years. No feeling of well being, no toilets, no customer information so travellers have to ask other travellrer how to do things. Gestapo style ticket enforcement and fining.only the beginning.
> Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address any > of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak hour.
> Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the > roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home with > her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they want > to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case > scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her skills > on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
> I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
> Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.
> "Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.
> During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex train > services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of > steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to > enable more passengers to be carried.
> The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new > suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing patronage > has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required to > maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour > services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most congested > parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be > carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.
> The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes > travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains, the > ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to be > able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction without > restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train > networks, including Brisbane and Perth.
> The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly support > the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the need > to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are > encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport by > leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes on > trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a station > all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)
> Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental > fees for > lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now required. > Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated. > CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage trains > are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more room > for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.
> The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in > relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of Infrastructure > is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage > storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100 bikes > NOT stolen) , more bike > cages are likely to be implemented.
> Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.
On 2008-01-09, tim (aka Bruce) was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On Jan 9, 12:46 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <tbekk...@bekkers.com.au> wrote: >> I'm aware of that Peter. Melbourne train carriages have not yet reached the >> double-decker stage due to the good length of station platforms.
> By my understanding, it's more to do with clearance around the track. > They had a couple of Sydney Tangara double-deckers on evaluation, but > they could only run on a couple of lines because the other lines were > designed for more "cylindrical" carriages, and didn't have the > shoulder clearance required to run rectangular section carriages, as > is required if two levels are to be used.
Heh. The explanations you hear.
I had heard it was because we are more limited by passenger movements in Melbourne. Sydney trains only have 2 doors, because otherwise you'd need to add a centre set of stairs. The 2 doors slow down the loading and offloading of passengers compared to the 3 doors on Melbourne trains.
> Theo Bekkers wrote: >> Zebee Johnstone wrote: >>> EuanB wrote: >>>> Theo Bekkers Wrote: >>>>>> Melbourne trains need to be re-fit with bench seats along the >>>>>> sides, and wide open standing spaces. That's all there is to it. >>>>> Until there is a major accident, and then we will have the seatbelt >>>>> brigade >>>>> out in full cry. >>>> That doesn't seem to be a problem in London, Paris, Rome, Japan etc >>>> etc. >>> Neither are bicycle head injuries apparently. But you will note that >>> doesn't stop the Oz Govt...
>> ROTFL. Seat-belts on school buses are a hot item here in the West ATM. >> Current situation is that the Gov't wont allow them to be fitted by the >> operators (at the operator's cost) because it will set a precedent and all >> parents will expect school buses to be fitted with them.
> They aren't actually stopping operators in vic fitting belts to school > buses but they tried to a while back.
> The fact that they were attempting to do so reached the media and they > back pedalled.
> Might be worth a letter to the papers or a call to a TV show...
Don't stir that hornets nest.
The risk of injury in a bus crash is absolutely miniscule (smaller than injuries sustained from bike riding), and for the great cost of belting every seat in every bus, it is most certainly not worth it.
-- TimC "The thing I love most about deadlines is the wonderful WHOOSHing sound they make as they go past" - DNA
TimC wrote: > On 2008-01-10, G-S wrote >> Theo Bekkers wrote: >>> ROTFL. Seat-belts on school buses are a hot item here in the West >>> ATM. Current situation is that the Gov't wont allow them to be >>> fitted by the operators (at the operator's cost) because it will >>> set a precedent and all parents will expect school buses to be >>> fitted with them.
>> They aren't actually stopping operators in vic fitting belts to >> school buses but they tried to a while back.
>> The fact that they were attempting to do so reached the media and >> they back pedalled.
>> Might be worth a letter to the papers or a call to a TV show...
> Don't stir that hornets nest.
Why not?
> The risk of injury in a bus crash is absolutely miniscule (smaller > than injuries sustained from bike riding), and for the great cost of > belting every seat in every bus, it is most certainly not worth it.
Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus, and they have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are of no use at all.
"In fact, presently Australia does the opposite to the French - rewarding those who buy SUVs with an artificially cheaper car. By virtue of an outdated Government policy, SUVs imported into Australia attract a lower tariff than passenger cars.
"Twenty years ago, the Government decided that four-wheel-drives should only attract a 5 per cent import tariff compared to the 15 per cent tariff imposed on passenger cars. Back then, the policy made perfect sense as fourwheel- drives were used as off-road work vehicles. But, as everyone knows, these days they are more likely to be found clogging suburban streets at school pick-up time. "We are subsidising trauma and we are taxing safety," says Scruby.
"Based on 2002 sales of four-wheel-drives, Australia lost an estimated $360 million in customs duties because of the tariff anomaly. Some Subarus, including the popular Forester, are even modified on the production line specifically for the Australian market to take advantage of the lower tariff. The Australian Forester is 10mm higher than those sold in the rest of the world to meet the 200mm ground clearance requirement."
"Theo Bekkers" wrote: >> The risk of injury in a bus crash is absolutely miniscule (smaller >> than injuries sustained from bike riding), and for the great cost of >> belting every seat in every bus, it is most certainly not worth it.
> Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus, and > they have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are of no use > at all.
>>> The risk of injury in a bus crash is absolutely miniscule (smaller >>> than injuries sustained from bike riding), and for the great cost of >>> belting every seat in every bus, it is most certainly not worth it.
>> Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus, >> and they have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are >> of no use at all.
> Severe air turbulence! A real risk.
A bigger risk than standing on a bus hanging onto a leather strap?
> "In fact, presently Australia does the opposite to the French - rewarding > those who buy SUVs with an artificially cheaper car. By virtue of an > outdated Government policy, SUVs imported into Australia attract a lower > tariff than passenger cars.
> "Twenty years ago, the Government decided that four-wheel-drives should > only attract a 5 per cent import tariff compared to the 15 per cent tariff > imposed on passenger cars. Back then, the policy made perfect sense as > fourwheel- drives were used as off-road work vehicles. But, as everyone > knows, these days they are more likely to be found clogging suburban > streets at school pick-up time. "We are subsidising trauma and we are > taxing safety," says Scruby.
> "Based on 2002 sales of four-wheel-drives, Australia lost an estimated > $360 million in customs duties because of the tariff anomaly. Some > Subarus, including the popular Forester, are even modified on the > production line specifically for the Australian market to take advantage > of the lower tariff. The Australian Forester is 10mm higher than those > sold in the rest of the world to meet the 200mm ground clearance > requirement."
I make a real distinction between someone buying a 4WD ute as a work vehicle and someone buying a 2½ tonne lardmobile to do an urban commute. I think the tarriff situation with 4WDs is a joke and should be rectified. I also think that farmers and the like *should* be able to get some form of rebate on work vehicles, but only once they demonstrate that they are in fact primary producers or something similar.
> "In fact, presently Australia does the opposite to the French - > rewarding those who buy SUVs with an artificially cheaper car. By > virtue of an outdated Government policy, SUVs imported into Australia > attract a lower tariff than passenger cars.
> "Twenty years ago, the Government decided that four-wheel-drives > should only attract a 5 per cent import tariff compared to the 15 per > cent tariff imposed on passenger cars. Back then, the policy made > perfect sense as fourwheel- drives were used as off-road work > vehicles. But, as everyone knows, these days they are more likely to > be found clogging suburban streets at school pick-up time. "We are > subsidising trauma and we are taxing safety," says Scruby.
> "Based on 2002 sales of four-wheel-drives, Australia lost an > estimated $360 million in customs duties because of the tariff > anomaly. Some Subarus, including the popular Forester, are even > modified on the production line specifically for the Australian > market to take advantage of the lower tariff. The Australian Forester > is 10mm higher than those sold in the rest of the world to meet the > 200mm ground clearance requirement."
>> "In fact, presently Australia does the opposite to the French - >> rewarding those who buy SUVs with an artificially cheaper car. By >> virtue of an outdated Government policy, SUVs imported into Australia >> attract a lower tariff than passenger cars. > Cool. So if I opt for the 4WD version I'll get better value for our > money? > http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1163397711099&pagena...
On 2008-01-10, Theo Bekkers <tbekk...@bekkers.com.au> wrote:
> Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus, and they > have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are of no use at all.
They keep the bodies near the wreckage, making it easier to account for all the passengers and crew.
-- John If you must play, decide upon three things at the start: The rules of the game, the stakes, and the quitting time. - Chinese proverb
John Pitts wrote: > Theo Bekkers wrote: >> Try this angle then. Aircraft travel is far safer than even a bus, >> and they have belts on every seat. In the event of a crash they are >> of no use at all.
> They keep the bodies near the wreckage, making it easier to account > for all the passengers and crew.
Excellent point. I was waiting for that. :-)
"Hey George, this charred mess was seat 32C, so this body must be......"
> Melbourne trains need to be re-fit with bench seats along the sides, > and wide open standing spaces. That's all there is to it.
Stuff like that has been discussed on ABC 774 this morning. Jon Faine is back hols and he's giving the issue plenty of airtime.
Daniel Bowen (PTUA) was being interviewed - caught the end of the discussion just before the 9am news. Daniel's stance was positive and pragmatic. Like what is going on when a public transport advocacy group is communicating bicycle riders concerns? Oh really I should know the answer to that, it's been giving lots of people the sh1ts since 1995...
Also a great talkback call from a woman who was told by her doctor to start exercising or risk severe arthritis. She took up cycling from Thornbury to the eastern suburbs and returned home via the 4.10pm Epping. She can't do that now. Thanks Ms Kosky.
The Bin the Bike Ban campaign is kicking off, we had a really productive meeting at CERES on Saturday - should have more to report soon if people are interested in getting involved.
On Jan 5, 10:28 am, "Vintage" <dontemai...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've got mates that get the train in after riding from South Morang to > Epping station for instance so they can ride all day in town for work. > These new rules mean a LONG day in the saddle with them HAVING to commute > from South Morang into town, ride all day and THEN ride home most likely > into a northerly at this time of the year pretty buggered.
Hi there, If you're reading, could you ask your mates to email me? I've got a local journalist (Whittlesea/Epping) who is looking for people there affected by the ban.
(Yes, today's media suggests the government will back down, but it doesn't hurt to keep on the pressure.)
Thanks, Daniel daniel.bowen at ptua dot org dot au or reply to my Gmail address
PUBLIC Transport Minister Lynne Kosky will today bow to anger from cyclists and reverse a controversial plan to ban bikes on trains during rush hours.
Bicycles will once again be allowed on all Connex and V/Line trains at all times - but only in the final carriage of Connex services, and only in set storage areas on V/Line trains.
The backpedal comes just six weeks after the rush-hour ban was revealed.
The ban was not formally announced; instead, it was found in the fine print of the Government's annual Fares and Ticketing Manual.
Ms Kosky, who was on holiday when the ban was revealed, distanced herself from the decision to ban bikes, and immediately ordered a review of the decision upon returning to work last month.
The move to ban bikes on Connex and V/Line services sparked heated debate, with many questioning the Government's commitment to more Victorians using sustainable forms of transport.
The ban was also bad news for cycle lobby group Bicycle Victoria, which was forced to issue a public apology to its members for not fighting the Government over the issue.
Bicycle Victoria's general manager, Harry Barber, said last night that he was relieved the ban had been reversed. \"All the people who use a train-and-bike combination to get to work will be vastly relieved by this,\" Mr Barber said. \"We can now get on with hooking the bicycle network up with the train network.\"
Ms Kosky will today meet bicycle and transport groups to advise them that she will reverse the policy.
In a sop to bike riders, Ms Kosky will also implement a new policy allowing folding bikes - little used in Australia but popular in European and American cities - on all trams and buses. Bikes will need to be folded before getting on to a service.
Chris Star, who helped form lobby group Bin the Bike Ban last month, said she was relieved the ban had been dropped.
\"It created a lot of anger because we saw it as a denial of service. And it was done at such short notice and without consultation,\" she said.
On 2008-02-15, cfsmtb (aka Bruce) was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Huzzah! Huzzah!
> ***
> Minister lifts bicycle ban on peak-hour trains > http://tinyurl.com/2bq2yh ... > In a sop to bike riders, Ms Kosky will also implement a new > policy allowing folding bikes - little used in Australia but popular in > European and American cities - on all trams and buses. Bikes will need > to be folded before getting on to a service.
Huzzah indeed!
> Chris Star, who helped form lobby group Bin the Bike Ban last > month, said she was relieved the ban had been dropped.
This Chris Star person, whoever she is, is almost as good as our Chris Starr.
> \"It created a lot of anger because we saw it as a denial of > service. And it was done at such short notice and without > consultation,\" she said.
Good on 'er :)
-- TimC Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. -- Hamilcar Barca in comp.os.linux.advocacy
> PUBLIC Transport Minister Lynne Kosky will today bow to > anger from cyclists and reverse a controversial plan to ban bikes on > trains during rush hours.
> Bicycles will once again be allowed on all Connex and V/Line > trains at all times - but only in the final carriage of Connex > services, and only in set storage areas on V/Line trains.
> The backpedal comes just six weeks after the rush-hour ban > was revealed.
> The ban was not formally announced; instead, it was found in > the fine print of the Government's annual Fares and Ticketing Manual.
> Ms Kosky, who was on holiday when the ban was revealed, > distanced herself from the decision to ban bikes, and immediately > ordered a review of the decision upon returning to work last month.
> The move to ban bikes on Connex and V/Line services sparked > heated debate, with many questioning the Government's commitment to > more Victorians using sustainable forms of transport.
> The ban was also bad news for cycle lobby group Bicycle > Victoria, which was forced to issue a public apology to its members for > not fighting the Government over the issue.
> Bicycle Victoria's general manager, Harry Barber, said last > night that he was relieved the ban had been reversed. \"All the people > who use a train-and-bike combination to get to work will be vastly > relieved by this,\" Mr Barber said. \"We can now get on with hooking > the bicycle network up with the train network.\"
> Ms Kosky will today meet bicycle and transport groups to > advise them that she will reverse the policy.
> In a sop to bike riders, Ms Kosky will also implement a new > policy allowing folding bikes - little used in Australia but popular in > European and American cities - on all trams and buses. Bikes will need > to be folded before getting on to a service.
> Chris Star, who helped form lobby group Bin the Bike Ban last > month, said she was relieved the ban had been dropped.
> \"It created a lot of anger because we saw it as a denial of > service. And it was done at such short notice and without > consultation,\" she said.
Go you! Incidentally, do you know whether the bikes on the last carriage on Connex services caveat is only during peak hours or all day?
|
