Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address any of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak hour.
Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home with her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they want to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her skills on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.
"Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.
During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex train services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to enable more passengers to be carried.
The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing patronage has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required to maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most congested parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.
The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains, the ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to be able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction without restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train networks, including Brisbane and Perth.
The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly support the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the need to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport by leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes on trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a station all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)
Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental fees for lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now required. Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated. CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage trains are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more room for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.
The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of Infrastructure is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100 bikes NOT stolen) , more bike cages are likely to be implemented.
Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.
> Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address any > of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak > hour.
> Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the > roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home with > her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they > want > to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case > scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her skills > on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
> I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
> Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.
> "Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.
> During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex train > services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of > steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to > enable more passengers to be carried.
> The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new > suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing patronage > has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required > to > maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour > services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most congested > parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be > carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.
> The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes > travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains, the > ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to be > able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction without > restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train > networks, including Brisbane and Perth.
> The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly > support > the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the > need > to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are > encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport > by > leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes on > trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a station > all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)
> Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental > fees for > lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now required. > Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated. > CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage > trains > are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more room > for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.
> The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in > relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of Infrastructure > is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage > storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100 bikes > NOT stolen) , more bike > cages are likely to be implemented.
> Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.
> Yours sincerely
> Adrian Webb > Victorian Fare Policy Manager
>I can understand the issues on both sides, it's the same here in Sydney as >it's always been regarding bikes in peak hour.I guess it's more in the case >of trying to cater for the majority of passengers when the patronage is >growing especially now in times of rising fuel costs.
I know it's frustrating about not allowing you to take your bike on the train but i gather that in most cases, judging by your post, you only use the train when the weather turns shit but most times your wife and perhaps yourself would be commuting on the bike instead of using the train.I guess it's hard to please all concerned. Jeez, when does peak time finish in Melb? You stated it's dark and wet so that tells me at this time of the year it'd have to be around 7.30 to 8pm so usually peak time in the cities finish at around 7pm so I can't see why you can't take the bike on at this time of the evening.
Regarding bike parking stations, some stations have got them and some not, but it might be worth considering at times when the weather is bad to just have a crappy cheap bike to chain up at the station near home and if it does get pinched or vandalised, it's not such a big deal and leave the good one at home for the good days of commuting.
Vintage wrote: > Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address any > of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak hour.
> Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the > roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home with > her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they want > to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case > scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her skills > on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
> I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
> ,Snip for space reasons>
No, having established the precedent, it will stay. And it would help if the service they provide was going to be significantly improved. But it's not. I live in Ferntree Gully. If you caught the 0733 morning express to the city in 1969, you'll be doing exactly the same in 2009, as the timetables haven't changed at all, apart from adding ten minutes for the City Loop. Here's a nice figure you can quote:
Average speed Melb suburban train, steam, 1885: 30 k/mh Average speed Melb suburban train, electric, 2008: 37 k/mh
Which speaks for itself. With some minor exceptions (Glen Waverley and Westona) the entire heavy rail system dates from prior to the 1892 economic crash. The trains themselves are quite capable of cruising at 115 k/mh. However, Apart from Watergardens, Pakenham and parts of Werribee, the trains are normally restricted to 80-100 k/mh due to the indifferent state of the tracks, hence the average above. Which for Sydneysiders, is a full 10 k/mh slower than the CityRail equivalent. The entire system essentially needs rebuilding from the tracks up. But as one former MP put it recently: `Opening new lines is sexy. Upgrading existing ones is not'. So this comes down to the egos of politicians, and on that one we've lost. Cheers, Ray
Well I ride no matter the weather as being a courier toughens you up to the elements. But yeah even though she rides everyday its nice to have the option to use on the occasions its not so nice out there etc.
And the new rules are different for every trainline. Its not a starting time for your journey, its what time the train gets into Flinders st in the city. Any train that gets into town by 7am-9am is out of bounds. Same too any train that leaves town from 4pm-7pm.
Basically anyone wanting to work 9-5 and use a bike is excluded.
As for the darkness I was mainly referring to winter where here it can get black and dark at 3pm in the arvo LOL
And locking bikes up here is like Snake on the Simpsons, no matter what it is if its chained up they'll try to take it.
I've got mates that get the train in after riding from South Morang to Epping station for instance so they can ride all day in town for work. These new rules mean a LONG day in the saddle with them HAVING to commute from South Morang into town, ride all day and THEN ride home most likely into a northerly at this time of the year pretty buggered.
> >I can understand the issues on both sides, it's the same here in Sydney as > >it's always been regarding bikes in peak hour.I guess it's more in the case > >of trying to cater for the majority of passengers when the patronage is > >growing especially now in times of rising fuel costs. > I know it's frustrating about not allowing you to take your bike on the > train but i gather that in most cases, judging by your post, you only use > the train when the weather turns shit but most times your wife and perhaps > yourself would be commuting on the bike instead of using the train.I guess > it's hard to please all concerned. > Jeez, when does peak time finish in Melb? You stated it's dark and wet so > that tells me at this time of the year it'd have to be around 7.30 to 8pm so > usually peak time in the cities finish at around 7pm so I can't see why you > can't take the bike on at this time of the evening.
> Regarding bike parking stations, some stations have got them and some not, > but it might be worth considering at times when the weather is bad to just > have a crappy cheap bike to chain up at the station near home and if it does > get pinched or vandalised, it's not such a big deal and leave the good one > at home for the good days of commuting.
"DJ" wrote: > I know it's frustrating about not allowing you to take your bike on the > train but i gather that in most cases, judging by your post, you only use > the train when the weather turns shit but most times your wife and perhaps > yourself would be commuting on the bike instead of using the train.I guess > it's hard to please all concerned.
So it's ok to shaft the occasional PT user?
> Jeez, when does peak time finish in Melb? You stated it's dark and wet so > that tells me at this time of the year it'd have to be around 7.30 to 8pm > so usually peak time in the cities finish at around 7pm so I can't see why > you can't take the bike on at this time of the evening.
Winter in Melbourne is cold and wet at 5.30pm. As far as I know this ban will continue, indefinitely.
>> I know it's frustrating about not allowing you to take your bike on the >> train but i gather that in most cases, judging by your post, you only use >> the train when the weather turns shit but most times your wife and >> perhaps yourself would be commuting on the bike instead of using the >> train.I guess it's hard to please all concerned.
> So it's ok to shaft the occasional PT user?
Well no it's not ok but understandable to make restrictions at certain peak times due to possible risk to other commuters. Say you weren't a bike rider, and your travelling in a fairly packed carriage and someone gets on the train with a wet bike with some mud splashed up the side of it or just dirty water from the roads, rubbed up against your suit or workclothes, or worse still, you get scraped along the leg with a sharp end of a pedal or chainwheel or it rips your suit leg to peices, just because the bike was in the carriage, no fault to anyone but all it takes is a jerk from a sudden stop to send standing passengers scurrying to get balance. It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the tight confines of that type of vehicle. Prams are another pain in the arse,but unlike bicycles, don't have the sharp peices to rip you open and that's the only reason they restrict bikes at these times plus the fact that for every bike on the train, they can fit 2 more people. It doesn't seem fair I know but I've seen it happen where an elderly gent accidently stepped back due to the braking of the train and he was left with a nice peice out of his right leg after it came into contact with a chainwheel.
>> Jeez, when does peak time finish in Melb? You stated it's dark and wet so >> that tells me at this time of the year it'd have to be around 7.30 to 8pm >> so usually peak time in the cities finish at around 7pm so I can't see >> why you can't take the bike on at this time of the evening.
> Winter in Melbourne is cold and wet at 5.30pm. As far as I know this ban > will continue, indefinitely.
In Sydney, Cityrail allows bikes in peak but you must have an childfare ticket for it to travel but outside peak it's free as well as all weekends.
Well in Vintage's original post, he didn't indicate that he was referring to winter times so I just took it that he was referring to a very recent occurance.In summer though, after 7pm and the peak time officially over,then there'd still be enough daylight. Cheers DJ
> Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address any > of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak > hour.
> Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the > roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home with > her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they > want > to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case > scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her skills > on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
> I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
> Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.
> "Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.
> During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex train > services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of > steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to > enable more passengers to be carried.
> The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new > suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing patronage > has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required > to > maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour > services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most congested > parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be > carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.
> The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes > travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains, the > ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to be > able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction without > restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train > networks, including Brisbane and Perth.
> The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly > support > the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the > need > to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are > encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport > by > leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes on > trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a station > all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)
> Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental > fees for > lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now required. > Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated. > CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage > trains > are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more room > for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.
> The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in > relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of Infrastructure > is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage > storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100 bikes > NOT stolen) , more bike > cages are likely to be implemented.
> Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.
> Yours sincerely
> Adrian Webb > Victorian Fare Policy Manager
>I wonder if all rail organisations just made half of one carriage on every >peak train into a bike carrying section and anyone could take their bike on >the trains as long as they only used that section, say for example a middle >carriage so that it doesn't matter which end of the train is driven from, >the bike section would always be in the middle and cyclist will know where >to stand for it.How many people would make use of it on a regular basis for >that purpose of bike and rail commuting?
It would be relatively cheap to alter some carriages compared to building purpose made ones but it was just an idea that came into my head prompted by this post. If you think it's a stupid idea...ok well and good i s;pose!!
One of the main problems in the modern cities and communites, the demand for special rail priveldges plus the major problems with OH&S and insurance liabilities, it's becomming increasingly difficult and expensive to cater for all of the many kinds of individuals that need to get around.
Maybe one day (in dreamtime) we will get a pollie to take the guantlet and run with it. Clover Moore, the Sydney Lord Mayor is a keen cyclist and is trying her best to make Sydney more cycle friendly but has certain oppositions from the State heirachy. I hope she succeeds eventually but like anyone with new fresh ideas, they eventually get railroaded.
> Well I ride no matter the weather as being a courier toughens you up to > the > elements. But yeah even though she rides everyday its nice to have the > option to use on the occasions its not so nice out there etc.
> And the new rules are different for every trainline. Its not a starting > time for your journey, its what time the train gets into Flinders st in > the > city. Any train that gets into town by 7am-9am is out of bounds. Same > too > any train that leaves town from 4pm-7pm.
> Basically anyone wanting to work 9-5 and use a bike is excluded.
> As for the darkness I was mainly referring to winter where here it can get > black and dark at 3pm in the arvo LOL
> And locking bikes up here is like Snake on the Simpsons, no matter what > it > is if its chained up they'll try to take it.
> I've got mates that get the train in after riding from South Morang to > Epping station for instance so they can ride all day in town for work. > These new rules mean a LONG day in the saddle with them HAVING to commute > from South Morang into town, ride all day and THEN ride home most likely > into a northerly at this time of the year pretty buggered.
>> >I can understand the issues on both sides, it's the same here in Sydney > as >> >it's always been regarding bikes in peak hour.I guess it's more in the > case >> >of trying to cater for the majority of passengers when the patronage is >> >growing especially now in times of rising fuel costs. >> I know it's frustrating about not allowing you to take your bike on the >> train but i gather that in most cases, judging by your post, you only use >> the train when the weather turns shit but most times your wife and >> perhaps >> yourself would be commuting on the bike instead of using the train.I >> guess >> it's hard to please all concerned. >> Jeez, when does peak time finish in Melb? You stated it's dark and wet so >> that tells me at this time of the year it'd have to be around 7.30 to 8pm > so >> usually peak time in the cities finish at around 7pm so I can't see why > you >> can't take the bike on at this time of the evening.
>> Regarding bike parking stations, some stations have got them and some >> not, >> but it might be worth considering at times when the weather is bad to >> just >> have a crappy cheap bike to chain up at the station near home and if it > does >> get pinched or vandalised, it's not such a big deal and leave the good >> one >> at home for the good days of commuting.
>> cheers >> DJ
It's actually 4-6pm according to a sign I saw (I think it was at Parliament station). I thought it was 7pm as well so I hung around in the city on Thursday reading and sipping a beer an hour longer than I had to. Not tragic in that case.
> Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address any > of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak > hour.
> Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the > roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home with > her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they > want > to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case > scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her skills > on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
> I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
> Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.
> "Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.
> During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex train > services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of > steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to > enable more passengers to be carried.
> The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new > suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing patronage > has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required > to > maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour > services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most congested > parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be > carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.
> The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes > travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains, the > ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to be > able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction without > restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train > networks, including Brisbane and Perth.
> The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly > support > the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the > need > to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are > encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport > by > leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes on > trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a station > all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)
> Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental > fees for > lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now required. > Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated. > CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage > trains > are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more room > for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.
> The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in > relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of Infrastructure > is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage > storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100 bikes > NOT stolen) , more bike > cages are likely to be implemented.
> Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.
> Yours sincerely
> Adrian Webb > Victorian Fare Policy Manager
What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these banned as well ?
If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the folding options.
> > Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address any > > of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak > > hour.
> > Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the > > roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home with > > her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they > > want > > to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case > > scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her skills > > on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
> > I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
> > Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.
> > "Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.
> > During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex train > > services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of > > steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to > > enable more passengers to be carried.
> > The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new > > suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing patronage > > has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required > > to > > maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour > > services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most congested > > parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be > > carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.
> > The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes > > travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains, the > > ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to be > > able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction without > > restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train > > networks, including Brisbane and Perth.
> > The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly > > support > > the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the > > need > > to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are > > encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport > > by > > leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes on > > trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a station > > all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)
> > Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental > > fees for > > lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now required. > > Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated. > > CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage > > trains > > are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more room > > for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.
> > The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in > > relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of Infrastructure > > is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage > > storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100 bikes > > NOT stolen) , more bike > > cages are likely to be implemented.
> > Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.
> > Yours sincerely
> > Adrian Webb > > Victorian Fare Policy Manager
> What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these > banned as well ?
> If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the > folding options.
In a strange case of unexpected side effects, I've decided to stop riding Connex as much and instead try and look for a new path to ride back and from work. I'd given up riding to work as I was sick of the company of all those wonderful considerate car drivers.
Whenever I see something that annoys me from Connex, I ask myself: how can I reduce what I pay to Connex? I figure if everyone did the same thing then they would go out of business fairly quickly.
Anyone got experience of riding the Bay bike path to and from Mordialloc to the city? I tried to find information on ithe current state, but nothing of substance on bv site. From the google images it seems ok. Yes, I know it's slow, but I'm not in a hurry.
> Well no it's not ok but understandable to make restrictions at certain > peak times due to possible risk to other commuters.
Restrictions start to look like persecution when there are only ever a tiny number of people who would take a bike on a peak hour train.
> Say you weren't a bike rider, and your travelling in a fairly packed > carriage and someone gets on the train with a wet bike with some mud > splashed up the side of it or just dirty water from the roads, rubbed up > against your suit or workclothes,
And say you had a need to take your bike on a train, and had chosen a carriage that was not packed full?? And the bike was clean?
> or worse still, you get scraped along the leg with a sharp end of a pedal > or chainwheel or it rips your suit leg to peices, just because the bike > was in the carriage,
Some people just lack gross motor skills, I know.
> no fault to anyone but all it takes is a jerk from a sudden stop to send > standing passengers scurrying to get balance.
One thing all our crap train carriages lack is overhead straps and rails, so that stops and starts are not such a threat. Why blame the cyclist? We had plenty of straps and open spaces in the old carriages of the 70s and 80s.
> It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the > tight confines of that type of vehicle.
Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and Canberra buses
> Prams are another pain in the arse,but unlike bicycles, don't have the > sharp peices to rip you open
!!!!
> and that's the only reason they restrict bikes at these times plus the > fact that for every bike on the train, they can fit 2 more people.
No, the rail authorities seem to have an innate antipathy to bikes. V-line is banning bikes on peak country services, despite the fact that NO additional passenger space will be available as a result (all bikes go into designated bike luggage areas)
Maybe things are differnet in NSW. You need to get a perspective on Victoria, where one of the best PT systems in Australia for bike/rail multimode travel, is being made much less usable... and all by a Labor government who lay claims to wanting greater sustainability!!!
> "Vintage" <dontemai...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:477e25d1$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au... >> Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address >> any >> of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak >> hour.
>> Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the >> roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home >> with >> her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they >> want >> to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case >> scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her >> skills >> on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
>> I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
>> Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.
>> "Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.
>> During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex train >> services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of >> steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to >> enable more passengers to be carried.
>> The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new >> suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing patronage >> has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required >> to >> maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour >> services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most >> congested >> parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be >> carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.
>> The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes >> travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains, >> the >> ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to be >> able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction >> without >> restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train >> networks, including Brisbane and Perth.
>> The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly >> support >> the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the >> need >> to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are >> encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport >> by >> leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes >> on >> trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a >> station >> all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)
>> Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental >> fees for >> lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now >> required. >> Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated. >> CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage >> trains >> are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more >> room >> for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.
>> The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in >> relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of Infrastructure >> is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage >> storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100 >> bikes >> NOT stolen) , more bike >> cages are likely to be implemented.
>> Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.
>> Yours sincerely
>> Adrian Webb >> Victorian Fare Policy Manager
> What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these > banned as well ?
> If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the > folding options.
I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and it's pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to come across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and both times the person who answered had to ask their supervisor and came back with the answer that if you can pick it up and carry it, it counts as luggage (we didn't point out that you can actually pick up and carry an unfolded bike). However, one particular ticket seller insisted on my buying an extra ticket for the bike, despite being told this, pretty much on the grounds of "a bike's a bike".
>> "Vintage" <dontemai...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:477e25d1$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au... >>> Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address >>> any >>> of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak >>> hour.
>>> Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the >>> roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home >>> with >>> her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they >>> want >>> to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case >>> scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her >>> skills >>> on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.
>>> I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?
>>> Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.
>>> "Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.
>>> During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex >>> train >>> services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of >>> steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to >>> enable more passengers to be carried.
>>> The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new >>> suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing >>> patronage >>> has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required >>> to >>> maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour >>> services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most >>> congested >>> parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be >>> carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.
>>> The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes >>> travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains, >>> the >>> ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to >>> be >>> able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction >>> without >>> restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train >>> networks, including Brisbane and Perth.
>>> The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly >>> support >>> the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the >>> need >>> to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are >>> encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport >>> by >>> leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes >>> on >>> trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a >>> station >>> all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)
>>> Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental >>> fees for >>> lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now >>> required. >>> Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated. >>> CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage >>> trains >>> are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more >>> room >>> for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.
>>> The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in >>> relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of >>> Infrastructure >>> is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage >>> storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100 >>> bikes >>> NOT stolen) , more bike >>> cages are likely to be implemented.
>>> Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.
>>> Yours sincerely
>>> Adrian Webb >>> Victorian Fare Policy Manager
>> What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these >> banned as well ?
>> If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the >> folding options.
> I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and > it's pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to > come across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and > both times the person who answered had to ask their supervisor and came > back with the answer that if you can pick it up and carry it, it counts as > luggage (we didn't point out that you can actually pick up and carry an > unfolded bike). However, one particular ticket seller insisted on my > buying an extra ticket for the bike, despite being told this, pretty much > on the grounds of "a bike's a bike".
> Cheers, > Liz
Easy to fix put bike in bag or suitcase then it is luggage ;)
I wonder what they would say to a normal sized bike with wheels removed inside a large soft bag, might be a way to get around the no bike rule :P Would have to read the rules about luggage size to confirm.
>> carriage and someone gets on the train with a wet bike with some mud >> splashed up the side of it or just dirty water from the roads, rubbed up >> against your suit or workclothes,
> And say you had a need to take your bike on a train, and had chosen a > carriage that was not packed full?? And the bike was clean?
Except that the reason they are banned is because they are full.
Will you have an inspector who will check bikes for cleanliness before they are allowed on? Will you agree that if there are more than X people on the train at any one time all cyclists are thrown off at the next station?
>> or worse still, you get scraped along the leg with a sharp end of a pedal >> or chainwheel or it rips your suit leg to peices, just because the bike >> was in the carriage,
> Some people just lack gross motor skills, I know.
Some do, yes. Elderly people, those with some varieties of MS, those with injuries, those with some balance problems, some people with Downs Syndrome, some people who are tired.
I am unsure why they don't count.
> One thing all our crap train carriages lack is overhead straps and rails, so > that stops and starts are not such a threat. Why blame the cyclist? We had > plenty of straps and open spaces in the old carriages of the 70s and 80s.
OPen spaces are usually about lack of people. What's the population of the city and the numbers using trains now compared to them?
>> It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the >> tight confines of that type of vehicle.
> Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and Canberra > buses
How many? And how much time does it take to insert and remove? Should other passengers have to wait?
Liz <l...@chows.com> wrote: > I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and it's > pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to come > across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and both
to quote:
Bicycles - standard, folding and disassembled - travel free in non-peak periods. You will need to purchase a child ticket as well as your own if you wish to travel with a bicycle between the hours of 6.00am and 9.00am and 3.30pm and 7.30pm on weekdays.
to me that makes it clear that a "bicycle" includes a folding one, even folded. So presumably a large backpack is OK but a folder in a bag is not... It also appears that a bike in a bike bag or box is also banned on peak hours, but a bar fridge would be OK.
I suspect that most staff would not care about a folder in a bag, but might care about one out of a bag.
I have been asked to show a 2nd ticket for the 'bent towards the end of evening peak, but being a disgustingly law abiding type I had bought one.
> In aus.bicycle on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:39:34 GMT > Liz <l...@chows.com> wrote: >> I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and >> it's >> pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to come >> across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and both
> to quote:
> Bicycles - standard, folding and disassembled - travel free in > non-peak periods. You will need to purchase a child ticket as well as > your own if you wish to travel with a bicycle between the hours of > 6.00am and 9.00am and 3.30pm and 7.30pm on weekdays.
> to me that makes it clear that a "bicycle" includes a folding one, > even folded. So presumably a large backpack is OK but a folder in a > bag is not... It also appears that a bike in a bike bag or box is > also banned on peak hours, but a bar fridge would be OK.
> I suspect that most staff would not care about a folder in a bag, but > might care about one out of a bag.
> I have been asked to show a 2nd ticket for the 'bent towards the end > of evening peak, but being a disgustingly law abiding type I had > bought one.
> Zebee
I remember one weekend i took my bicycle on the train from Mac Flds to the city(Syd) and got chatting to 2 of those city rail ticket checkers on the train going in and i was telling them about BUGs and what they do and some of the rides we go etc etc and kept them chatting untill we got to Kingsgrove where they got off to go back on another train...they didn't even ask if i had a ticket for myself let alone the bike...mmm good diversion i thought....
But yeah, in the peak time in Sydney you just buy a child ticket for the bike then no probs usually except you might get a few growls from passengers in a packed carriage....i had one guy say to me one night "why don't you ride the f'ing thing home"? and I said "why don't you walk home? he shut up then....it helps when you don't reply with obsenities back as it makes you look better than those who do...sometimes!! lol
I must say though, i wouldn't mind betting that some day soon if the petrol prices go higher and higher and more people opt for the train that cityrail could bring in the 'no bikes in peaktime' policy..wouldn't put it past them.
>>> It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the >>> tight confines of that type of vehicle. >> Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and Canberra >> buses
> How many? And how much time does it take to insert and remove? > Should other passengers have to wait?
> Zebee
I've been researching these... it's my estimate that we have sufficient 'slack time' in our timetables not to need to alter them.
ie buses currently wait at main stops (waste time) in order not to be early.
That is the case with a fair proportion of rural/suburban services down in Vic... not sure about NSW though, and it isn't the case in inner city areas either.
>> What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these >> banned as well ?
>> If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the >> folding options.
> I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and > it's pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to > come across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and > both times the person who answered had to ask their supervisor and came > back with the answer that if you can pick it up and carry it, it counts as > luggage (we didn't point out that you can actually pick up and carry an > unfolded bike). However, one particular ticket seller insisted on my > buying an extra ticket for the bike, despite being told this, pretty much > on the grounds of "a bike's a bike".
I rarely use public transport these days; however if I ever find myself in the position of wanting to take my folding bike on a train in Sydney peak hour, I fully intend to *not* purchase a ticket, and if the transit police issue a fine, I fully intend to contest it through the courts. I think there is an arguable case that a folding bike (in a bag) is not a bike.
Getting back to the original topic, I've spent the last 3 months living and working in Melbourne, commuting 30km both ways each day with one exception when I used the train. The trip home that day was enough to convince me that almost anything would be preferable to a peak hour train trip in Melbourne, with or without a bike. That 'almost anything' arrived just before Christmas, when a severe afternoon thunderstorm sent me to Parliament station with my bike for the trip home. I would have happily paid a quadruple fare; luckily the train had enough space for both of us, and the bike was free.
I can see both side of the issue too - I think any lobbying should encompass a willingness to pay a surcharge of some kind for the bike.
>>>> It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the >>>> tight confines of that type of vehicle. >>> Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and >>> Canberra buses
>> How many? And how much time does it take to insert and remove? >> Should other passengers have to wait?
>> Zebee
> I've been researching these... it's my estimate that we have sufficient > 'slack time' in our timetables not to need to alter them.
> ie buses currently wait at main stops (waste time) in order not to be > early.
> That is the case with a fair proportion of rural/suburban services down in > Vic... not sure about NSW though, and it isn't the case in inner city > areas either.
> G-S
That may well be in the slack periods early in the morning (first services) and late in the evening (after 7.30pm or 8pm) and on some holiday periods like it is right now but generally in my experience having been a Sydney Buses driver for 18 years (not at the moment though) in those above mentioned times, they tend to tighten up the timetable so they can get more trips in per operating bus for eg. instead of doing 2 round trips in/out of city per half shift, they'll be timetabling for 3 round trips.
I was up in Brisbane for 9 months recently and in that whole time i think i seen 2 bikes on those front racks so i don't know if they have been a paying proposition. I think people have to realise that with buses, they try to cater for most of the travelling public but it's bloody hard trying to cater for all purposes. I know when they first bought out those low floor wheelchair buses about 7 years ago, i think i have carried about 6 wheelchair passengers in 5 years.
DJ <mrj...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > I know when they first bought out those low floor wheelchair buses about 7 > years ago, i think i have carried about 6 wheelchair passengers in 5 years.
I've seen elderly passengers being quite thankful for those. Ditto people with prams.
Long ago when I was young, Perth buses used to carry prams on racks on the back of the bus. They stopped it, I believe because of the hassle the drivers had doing the loading and unloading as not all pram owners could manage it.
When I was working in North Sydney I used to take the train home if I was late home of an evening and couldn't be arsed facing the hills.
No point trying to get the bike on in peak hour though!
I expect the 'bent wouldn't fit on a bus bicycle rack anyway.
Zebee Johnstone wrote: > In aus.bicycle on Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:13:29 +1100 > DJ <mrj...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >> I know when they first bought out those low floor wheelchair buses about 7 >> years ago, i think i have carried about 6 wheelchair passengers in 5 years.
> I've seen elderly passengers being quite thankful for those. Ditto > people with prams.
> Long ago when I was young, Perth buses used to carry prams on racks on > the back of the bus. They stopped it, I believe because of the hassle > the drivers had doing the loading and unloading as not all pram owners > could manage it.
> When I was working in North Sydney I used to take the train home if I > was late home of an evening and couldn't be arsed facing the hills.
> No point trying to get the bike on in peak hour though!
> I expect the 'bent wouldn't fit on a bus bicycle rack anyway.
> Zebee
Spot on Zebee... our feedback is that marginally mobile older passengers (off peak mostly) absolutely love the newer low floor buses, and so do mums with prams.
None of that is very relevant to peak hour bus usage, but that isn't the pattern encountered with outer suburban/rural bus services anyway.
And as far as I can tell some bents would fit but others would not; long wheelbase ones definitely not (the racks can after all be no wider than a bus) but shorter wheelbase/larger wheel types should be ok.
On 2008-01-06, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce) was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> to me that makes it clear that a "bicycle" includes a folding one, > even folded. So presumably a large backpack is OK but a folder in a > bag is not... It also appears that a bike in a bike bag or box is > also banned on peak hours, but a bar fridge would be OK.
Ahhh, Chasers, how I love thee.
-- TimC I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again. -- MIT's phone switch
> Anyone got experience of riding the Bay bike path to and from > Mordialloc to the city? I tried to find information on ithe current > state, but nothing of substance on bv site. From the google images it > seems ok. Yes, I know it's slow, but I'm > not in a hurry.
IMO Nepean Highway is not only quicker, it's much safer.
I've ridden the Bay trail, the sight lines are poor and there's way too many intersections where priority is not recognised. Add in joggers, dog walkers etc etc and it can be an unpredictable enviornment compared to the road.
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote: > In aus.bicycle on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:51:23 GMT > PeteSig <pete...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> "DJ" wrote:
>>> carriage and someone gets on the train with a wet bike with some mud >>> splashed up the side of it or just dirty water from the roads, rubbed up >>> against your suit or workclothes,
>> And say you had a need to take your bike on a train, and had chosen a >> carriage that was not packed full?? And the bike was clean?
> Except that the reason they are banned is because they are full.
But often they are NOT. Eg. before 4.30pm and after 6.00pm. But the ban still applies.
> Will you have an inspector who will check bikes for cleanliness before > they are allowed on? Will you agree that if there are more than X > people on the train at any one time all cyclists are thrown off at the > next station?
No. Leave it up to reasonable people to make a sensible decision. Like they will with pram-users/people with lots of luggage.
>> One thing all our crap train carriages lack is overhead straps and rails, >> so >> that stops and starts are not such a threat. Why blame the cyclist? We >> had >> plenty of straps and open spaces in the old carriages of the 70s and 80s.
> OPen spaces are usually about lack of people. What's the population > of the city and the numbers using trains now compared to them?
No, open spaces, where there were no seats. Standing room, with straps to hold onto. FAR more people can be accomodated with standing room, and in off-peak there's still more than enough seats, and space to carry bikes out of the doorways. Talk to travellers overseas - most of the mass rail systems in NY, Tokyo, London have carriages with standing spaces, some are almost all standing room with only seats along the sides of the carriages.
And yes, bikes may well be banned there, but these cities have much greater population densities and PT use. Personally I think the idea of paying a concession fare for a bike in peak periods was a good one. But this was dropped by the Met, for some reason. Maybe too hard to police ??
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote: >> Except that the reason they are banned is because they are full.
> But often they are NOT. Eg. before 4.30pm and after 6.00pm. But the ban > still applies.
The problem is that sometimes they are.
>> Will you have an inspector who will check bikes for cleanliness before >> they are allowed on? Will you agree that if there are more than X >> people on the train at any one time all cyclists are thrown off at the >> next station?
> No. Leave it up to reasonable people to make a sensible decision. Like they > will with pram-users/people with lots of luggage.
Do they? NOt in my experience.
People are selfish. Some people will not be too selfish, some will. And unclear rules lead to arguments and anger.
HOw much will new carriages cost, and who will pay?
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