I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left side) from time to time?
My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
> I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > side) from time to time?
> My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery.
You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion.
Have you had a chest X-ray too?
-- Steven L. Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > side) from time to time?
> My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
> Thanks
Babe: Your are right and Susan and Steve are right. Call your ENT and have him tell you EXACTLY what kind of surgery he proposes. Your turbinates are natural scroll-work in your sinuses that control the airflow and allow a pressure pulse to develop that aids your absorption of oxygen. You are able to extract 50% more oxygen when you breath through your nose because of the shape of these structures, so cutting them out is a very bad idea. However they can be covered with infected crud, or worse and basically need to be cleaned off, by scraping or using RF. If you can find someone that does RF, this seems to have fewer complications, but as Susan's experience shows, careful surgery that cleans of the trubinate but spares the cartilage structure can be successful too.
> truehawk wrote: > > Babe: > > Your are right and Susan and Steve are right. > > Call your ENT and have him tell you EXACTLY what kind of surgery he > > proposes. > > Your turbinates are natural scroll-work in your sinuses that control > > the airflow and allow a pressure pulse to develop > > that aids your absorption of oxygen. You are able to extract 50% more > > oxygen when you breath through your nose because > > of the shape of these structures, so cutting them out is a very bad > > idea. However they can be covered with infected crud, or > > worse and basically need to be cleaned off, by scraping or using RF. > > If you can find someone that does RF, this seems to have fewer > > complications, but as Susan's experience shows, careful surgery that > > cleans of the trubinate but spares the cartilage structure can be > > successful too.
> And so critical to keep the nose moist. As my surgeon put it, "you need > your turbinates for air conditioning."
> Susan
Thank you for your replies Susan, Steven, and truehawk. Right now my ENT has me doing nasal washes 2x's a day, plus 2 squirts in each nostril of Rhinocort once a day. He said that my sinuses look better, but I'm starting to have the occasional headache, and I'm not sure if it's from an infection brewing or from the Rhinocort.
I also forgot to mention that I suffer from a moderate to severe case of LPR(Laryngopharyngeal Reflux). Sometimes I get a lot of redness, swelling, and irritation in my throat from that; but during my last ENT visit in August, he told me that the redness and swelling had all but gone away, yet I still have this feeling of inflammation in my throat which causes me to feel short of breath.
I'm been to 4 different ENT's so far, and they all have discussed the future possibility of surgery. I think one said something about a laser resurfacing, or burning the turbinate to allow it to re-heal or something similar. Anyway, thank you all for you help!
> > I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > > with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > > suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > > side) from time to time?
> > My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > > make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > > is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
> It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower > respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same > breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery.
> You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just > swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you > take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion.
> Have you had a chest X-ray too?
> -- > Steven L. > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Hi Steven,
Yes, I've had many chest X-rays, CT Scans and Pulmonary function test; everything checked out fine. They also looked into my throat with a laryngoscope, and told me that although initially my throat was very swollen, things appear to be almost back to normal with no signs of stenosis.
> > I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > > with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > > suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > > side) from time to time?
> > My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > > make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > > is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
> It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower > respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same > breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery.
> You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just > swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you > take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion.
> Have you had a chest X-ray too?
> -- > Steven L. > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Hi Steven,
Yes, I've had many chest X-rays, CT Scans and Pulmonary function test; everything checked out fine. They also looked into my throat with a laryngoscope, and told me that although initially my throat was very swollen, things appear to be almost back to normal with no signs of stenosis.
> > > I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > > > with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > > > suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > > > side) from time to time?
> > > My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > > > make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > > > is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
> > It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower > > respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same > > breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery.
> > You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just > > swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you > > take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion.
> > Have you had a chest X-ray too?
> > -- > > Steven L. > > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> Hi Steven,
> Yes, I've had many chest X-rays, CT Scans and Pulmonary function test; > everything checked out fine. They also looked into my throat with a > laryngoscope, and told me that although initially my throat was very > swollen, things appear to be almost back to normal with no signs of > stenosis.
Babe:
I hate to even suggest this, but I too have had extreme esophageal symptoms and normal swallowing studies and CAT scans of my head indicating god know what, choking, nausea and everything else.
Just for grins, you might try to get a doc, any doc, a osteopath, a nutripath, anyone with a prescription pad to write an order to send material from your sinuses to a lab where it can be evaluated for worms, just to rule it out.
I was looked at by a series of internists and probably 6 ENTs, and not one of them EVER considered a tapeworm infection. But I gotta a tiny type of tapeworm. It is apparently called echinococcosis. I don't know which species, there seem to be a bunch. If one has the tiny tapeworms, and apparently there are species that may be transmitted by fleas or maybe even mosquitoes. from the body-wide symptoms, they are not just in one's sinuses, in fact the lit does not even mention the sinuses, and it could be that worm symptoms are not well documented because direct examination of material from one's sinuses is specifically discouraged by ENT practice guidelines. The entire infectious disease diagnostic scheme is based on cultures, which will show the bacteria and fungus that the worm rolls with (if you insist on a fungus culture), but not the worm. The only time now that the worms are detected now is when they cause a seizure or form cysts that show up on x-ray, but that may not be the usual way they live in the human body. Anyway, I hypotheses that it is possible that even when the sinuses are cleaned out, if one has the worm, the worms will return from other locations to the sinuses eventually, because the sinuses are moist, poorly defended, and the worm equivalent of prime real estate, on the bus line and close to shops.
sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: > On Sep 9, 12:02 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote: >> sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, >>> with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here >>> suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left >>> side) from time to time? >>> My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes >>> make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that >>> is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply! >> It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower >> respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same >> breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery.
>> You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just >> swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you >> take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion.
>> Have you had a chest X-ray too?
>> -- >> Steven L. >> Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net >> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> Hi Steven,
> Yes, I've had many chest X-rays, CT Scans and Pulmonary function test; > everything checked out fine. They also looked into my throat with a > laryngoscope, and told me that although initially my throat was very > swollen, things appear to be almost back to normal with no signs of > stenosis.
Perhaps my experience would be enlightening:
I had a negative CT scan of my sinuses. And two different ENTs looked at it and both swore I had no sinus disease.
But a third ENT knew better. He knew that sinus CT scans have about a 5% chance of false negatives (failing to detect sinus disease). And so we agreed to operate. And sure enough, during the surgery, he found definite evidence of sinus disease in my sinuses that the CT scan had missed.
The only way to be sure is to push an endoscope all the way into your sinuses and view them from the inside. But you have to be under general anesthetic for that. That's why exploratory surgery may be the only option for you, as it was for me.
> I also forgot to mention that I suffer from a moderate to severe case > of LPR(Laryngopharyngeal Reflux). Sometimes I get a lot of redness, > swelling, and irritation in my throat from that; but during my last > ENT visit in August, he told me that the redness and swelling had all > but gone away, yet I still have this feeling of inflammation in my > throat which causes me to feel short of breath.
Three more points before you depart:
1. There is some evidence that gastroesophageal reflux (GERD), if it's severe, can even cause sinusitis as well as bad laryngitis. That's because when you lie down, acidic stomach contents can be refluxed all the way up into your nasopharynx--or at least the fumes from your stomach can be. In any case, it's important to get your GERD under control. Long-term GERD increases your risk of esophageal cancer, which is very serious.
If you haven't already, see a gastroenterologist and get an endoscopy of your upper gastrointestinal tract. If medication has failed to control your GERD, then you may have an anatomical problem--a weak esophageal sphincter--which may need treatment. (My lower esophageal sphincter is permanently very weak, a genetic birth defect.) Treating your GERD successfully may even help your sinus problems.
In any case, in the meantime, try this: Do you eat a small breakfast in the morning and a hearty dinner in the evening? Try INTERCHANGING those meals. Eat a large, hearty breakfast (e.g., steak and eggs) in the morning, and eat a small, light dinner (e.g., bagel and some fruit) in the evening. You need the fuel in the morning to start the day anyway; and a light dinner in the evening is much less likely to kick off GERD at night.
2. As Susan indicated, I'm much more of a fan of SINUS surgery than I am of TURBINATE surgery. If you have a small pocket of infection in one of your sinuses, cleaning it out will be worthwhile. Turbinate reduction, on the other hand, may be too risky for any benefits you'll get. It can lead to "Empty Nose Syndrome," in which your upper respiratory tract becomes chronically dry and inflamed due to removing the turbinates which moisten the air. Kind of like running your air conditioner with the filter removed. And that can't be repaired surgically--you'll be permanently miserable.
3. Where do you live? Perhaps Susan or I can recommend a good ENT (or ENT hospital department) in your area.
-- Steven L. Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> > > > I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > > > > with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > > > > suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > > > > side) from time to time?
> > > > My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > > > > make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > > > > is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
> > > It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower > > > respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same > > > breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery.
> > > You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just > > > swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you > > > take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion.
> > > Have you had a chest X-ray too?
> > > -- > > > Steven L. > > > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > > > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> > Hi Steven,
> > Yes, I've had many chest X-rays, CT Scans and Pulmonary function test; > > everything checked out fine. They also looked into my throat with a > > laryngoscope, and told me that although initially my throat was very > > swollen, things appear to be almost back to normal with no signs of > > stenosis.
> Babe:
> I hate to even suggest this, but I too have had extreme esophageal > symptoms and normal swallowing studies and > CAT scans of my head indicating god know what, choking, nausea and > everything else.
> Just for grins, you might try to get a doc, any doc, a osteopath, a > nutripath, anyone with a prescription pad > to write an order to send material from your sinuses to a lab where it > can be evaluated for worms, just to rule it out.
> I was looked at by a series of internists and probably 6 ENTs, and not > one of them EVER considered a tapeworm infection. > But I gotta a tiny type of tapeworm. It is apparently called > echinococcosis. I don't know which species, there seem to be a bunch. > If one has the tiny tapeworms, and apparently there are species that > may be transmitted by fleas or maybe even mosquitoes. > from the body-wide symptoms, they are not just in one's sinuses, in > fact the lit does not even mention the sinuses, and it could be that > worm symptoms are not well documented because direct examination of > material from one's sinuses is specifically discouraged by ENT > practice guidelines. The entire infectious disease diagnostic scheme > is based on cultures, which will show the bacteria and fungus that the > worm rolls with (if you insist on a fungus culture), but not the worm. > The only time now that the worms are detected now is when they cause a > seizure or form cysts that show up on x-ray, but that may not be the > usual way they live in the human body. > Anyway, I hypotheses that it is possible that even when the sinuses > are cleaned out, if one has the worm, the worms will return from other > locations to the sinuses eventually, because the sinuses are moist, > poorly defended, and the worm equivalent of prime real estate, on the > bus line and close to shops.
Worms???? I must say, that the possibility has not crossed my mind and I will definitely look into that! Though I hope to God it isn't the problem.
> sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On Sep 9, 12:02 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > >>> with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > >>> suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > >>> side) from time to time? > >>> My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > >>> make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > >>> is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply! > >> It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower > >> respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same > >> breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery.
> >> You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just > >> swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you > >> take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion.
> >> Have you had a chest X-ray too?
> >> -- > >> Steven L. > >> Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > >> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> > Hi Steven,
> > Yes, I've had many chest X-rays, CT Scans and Pulmonary function test; > > everything checked out fine. They also looked into my throat with a > > laryngoscope, and told me that although initially my throat was very > > swollen, things appear to be almost back to normal with no signs of > > stenosis.
> Perhaps my experience would be enlightening:
> I had a negative CT scan of my sinuses. And two different ENTs looked > at it and both swore I had no sinus disease.
> But a third ENT knew better. He knew that sinus CT scans have about a > 5% chance of false negatives (failing to detect sinus disease). And so > we agreed to operate. And sure enough, during the surgery, he found > definite evidence of sinus disease in my sinuses that the CT scan had > missed.
> The only way to be sure is to push an endoscope all the way into your > sinuses and view them from the inside. But you have to be under general > anesthetic for that. That's why exploratory surgery may be the only > option for you, as it was for me.
> > I also forgot to mention that I suffer from a moderate to severe case > > of LPR(Laryngopharyngeal Reflux). Sometimes I get a lot of redness, > > swelling, and irritation in my throat from that; but during my last > > ENT visit in August, he told me that the redness and swelling had all > > but gone away, yet I still have this feeling of inflammation in my > > throat which causes me to feel short of breath.
> Three more points before you depart:
> 1. There is some evidence that gastroesophageal reflux (GERD), if it's > severe, can even cause sinusitis as well as bad laryngitis. That's > because when you lie down, acidic stomach contents can be refluxed all > the way up into your nasopharynx--or at least the fumes from your > stomach can be. In any case, it's important to get your GERD under > control. Long-term GERD increases your risk of esophageal cancer, which > is very serious.
> If you haven't already, see a gastroenterologist and get an endoscopy of > your upper gastrointestinal tract. If medication has failed to control > your GERD, then you may have an anatomical problem--a weak esophageal > sphincter--which may need treatment. (My lower esophageal sphincter is > permanently very weak, a genetic birth defect.) Treating your GERD > successfully may even help your sinus problems.
> In any case, in the meantime, try this: Do you eat a small breakfast in > the morning and a hearty dinner in the evening? Try INTERCHANGING those > meals. Eat a large, hearty breakfast (e.g., steak and eggs) in the > morning, and eat a small, light dinner (e.g., bagel and some fruit) in > the evening. You need the fuel in the morning to start the day anyway; > and a light dinner in the evening is much less likely to kick off GERD > at night.
> 2. As Susan indicated, I'm much more of a fan of SINUS surgery than I > am of TURBINATE surgery. If you have a small pocket of infection in one > of your sinuses, cleaning it out will be worthwhile. Turbinate > reduction, on the other hand, may be too risky for any benefits you'll > get. It can lead to "Empty Nose Syndrome," in which your upper > respiratory tract becomes chronically dry and inflamed due to removing > the turbinates which moisten the air. Kind of like running your air > conditioner with the filter removed. And that can't be repaired > surgically--you'll be permanently miserable.
> 3. Where do you live? Perhaps Susan or I can recommend a good ENT (or > ENT hospital department) in your area.
> -- > Steven L. > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Ah! I have a tendency to eat light for breakfast and heavy at night, especially before bed. I quite often lie down after dinner, which I've heard is NOT good for GERD, so I'm working at trying to change that habit. It's hard because most often I'm busy and catch a meal until late in the evening.
During the next appointment with my ENT I'm going to ask him about the Endoscope, and see what he says. Thanks for that suggestion!
i know for certain that I have a weak lower esophageal sphincter, because during two separate Upper G.I.'s, the doctor discovered that the barium(as well as the pill you have to swallow) get's stuck there. I have to stand up, move around, and swallow copious amounts of fluids to get it to move out of my esophagus and into my stomach.
I'm located in Irving, Texas; right outside of Dallas. My ENT is located at U.T. Southwestern Hospital.
You guys/girls are a WEALTH of information, thanks for your help! It is greatly appreciated!
> Steven L. wrote: > > Three more points before you depart:
> > 1. There is some evidence that gastroesophageal reflux (GERD), if it's > > severe, can even cause sinusitis as well as bad laryngitis. That's > > because when you lie down, acidic stomach contents can be refluxed all > > the way up into your nasopharynx--or at least the fumes from your > > stomach can be. In any case, it's important to get your GERD under > > control. Long-term GERD increases your risk of esophageal cancer, which > > is very serious.
> Or it's possible that the same process that causes GERD also promotes > cancer? In the case of hyperinsulinemia from high carb consumption, for > example and the usual disappearance of GERD (and IBS) reported by so > many folks as soon as they switch to low carb diets, for example. In my > own case, my GERD was cured by antibiotics, though perhaps indirectly, > by lowering infection, thereby lowering endogenous steroid over > production, thereby no more steroid excess inflaming my stomach? Such a > scenario would also explain the immune suppression that can lead to > chronic sinusitis.
> > If you haven't already, see a gastroenterologist and get an endoscopy of > > your upper gastrointestinal tract. If medication has failed to control > > your GERD, then you may have an anatomical problem--a weak esophageal > > sphincter--which may need treatment. (My lower esophageal sphincter is > > permanently very weak, a genetic birth defect.) Treating your GERD > > successfully may even help your sinus problems.
> I hate to see someone sign up for invasive procedures before making > simple attempts at, say, dietary changes that might work, and that will > be evident very quickly, first.
> > In any case, in the meantime, try this: Do you eat a small breakfast in > > the morning and a hearty dinner in the evening? Try INTERCHANGING those > > meals. Eat a large, hearty breakfast (e.g., steak and eggs) in the > > morning, and eat a small, light dinner (e.g., bagel and some fruit) in > > the evening. You need the fuel in the morning to start the day anyway; > > and a light dinner in the evening is much less likely to kick off GERD > > at night.
> Gosh, Steven, a bagel and juice is a terrible idea. It's pure sugar > meal as far as your pancreas, kidneys and nerves are concerned. Small, > not light meals, are really helpful. A starch and sugar meal just > inhibits growth hormone secretion, which is bad, and is likely to lead > to elevated glucose, which is worse. You have all the energry you need > for the day without force feeding sugar calories; cortisol will raise > morning glucose.
> For my own extremely severe GERD, now gone for many years after 8 years > of horrid symptoms, I found smaller meals and not reclining for at least > an hour and a half to be the most helpful. I managed to avoid > esophagitis this way even on high dose docycycline. Only time I ever > get even a teensy bit acid stomach now is if my cortisol is elevated.
> > 2. As Susan indicated, I'm much more of a fan of SINUS surgery than I > > am of TURBINATE surgery. If you have a small pocket of infection in one > > of your sinuses, cleaning it out will be worthwhile. Turbinate > > reduction, on the other hand, may be too risky for any benefits you'll > > get. It can lead to "Empty Nose Syndrome," in which your upper > > respiratory tract becomes chronically dry and inflamed due to removing > > the turbinates which moisten the air. Kind of like running your air > > conditioner with the filter removed. And that can't be repaired > > surgically--you'll be permanently miserable.
> Absolutely, and we've heard those tales of woe here in the past from > those who'd had the procedure.
> > 3. Where do you live? Perhaps Susan or I can recommend a good ENT (or > > ENT hospital department) in your area.
> I live in metro NY, and it took over a decade to find ONE single ENT to > write home about!
> Susan
I'm going to try these suggestions. I noticed my own GERD got worse after taking large amounts of antibiotics for gallbladder problems, and recurrent sinus infections with in the past couple of years. I also stopped taking Reglan(because of side-effects) which helped tremendously to control Acid Reflux.
I was hospitalized last year with laryngitis, pharyngitis, and esophagitis all because of LPR! Placed on antibiotics, and double doses of PPI's which has now been reduced back down to one per day.
<sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Sep 11, 8:37 pm, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> > x-no-archive: yes
> > Steven L. wrote: > > > Three more points before you depart:
> > > 1. There is some evidence that gastroesophageal reflux (GERD), if it's > > > severe, can even cause sinusitis as well as bad laryngitis. That's > > > because when you lie down, acidic stomach contents can be refluxed all > > > the way up into your nasopharynx--or at least the fumes from your > > > stomach can be. In any case, it's important to get your GERD under > > > control. Long-term GERD increases your risk of esophageal cancer, which > > > is very serious.
> > Or it's possible that the same process that causes GERD also promotes > > cancer? In the case of hyperinsulinemia from high carb consumption, for > > example and the usual disappearance of GERD (and IBS) reported by so > > many folks as soon as they switch to low carb diets, for example. In my > > own case, my GERD was cured by antibiotics, though perhaps indirectly, > > by lowering infection, thereby lowering endogenous steroid over > > production, thereby no more steroid excess inflaming my stomach? Such a > > scenario would also explain the immune suppression that can lead to > > chronic sinusitis.
> > > If you haven't already, see a gastroenterologist and get an endoscopy of > > > your upper gastrointestinal tract. If medication has failed to control > > > your GERD, then you may have an anatomical problem--a weak esophageal > > > sphincter--which may need treatment. (My lower esophageal sphincter is > > > permanently very weak, a genetic birth defect.) Treating your GERD > > > successfully may even help your sinus problems.
> > I hate to see someone sign up for invasive procedures before making > > simple attempts at, say, dietary changes that might work, and that will > > be evident very quickly, first.
> > > In any case, in the meantime, try this: Do you eat a small breakfast in > > > the morning and a hearty dinner in the evening? Try INTERCHANGING those > > > meals. Eat a large, hearty breakfast (e.g., steak and eggs) in the > > > morning, and eat a small, light dinner (e.g., bagel and some fruit) in > > > the evening. You need the fuel in the morning to start the day anyway; > > > and a light dinner in the evening is much less likely to kick off GERD > > > at night.
> > Gosh, Steven, a bagel and juice is a terrible idea. It's pure sugar > > meal as far as your pancreas, kidneys and nerves are concerned. Small, > > not light meals, are really helpful. A starch and sugar meal just > > inhibits growth hormone secretion, which is bad, and is likely to lead > > to elevated glucose, which is worse. You have all the energry you need > > for the day without force feeding sugar calories; cortisol will raise > > morning glucose.
> > For my own extremely severe GERD, now gone for many years after 8 years > > of horrid symptoms, I found smaller meals and not reclining for at least > > an hour and a half to be the most helpful. I managed to avoid > > esophagitis this way even on high dose docycycline. Only time I ever > > get even a teensy bit acid stomach now is if my cortisol is elevated.
> > > 2. As Susan indicated, I'm much more of a fan of SINUS surgery than I > > > am of TURBINATE surgery. If you have a small pocket of infection in one > > > of your sinuses, cleaning it out will be worthwhile. Turbinate > > > reduction, on the other hand, may be too risky for any benefits you'll > > > get. It can lead to "Empty Nose Syndrome," in which your upper > > > respiratory tract becomes chronically dry and inflamed due to removing > > > the turbinates which moisten the air. Kind of like running your air > > > conditioner with the filter removed. And that can't be repaired > > > surgically--you'll be permanently miserable.
> > Absolutely, and we've heard those tales of woe here in the past from > > those who'd had the procedure.
> > > 3. Where do you live? Perhaps Susan or I can recommend a good ENT (or > > > ENT hospital department) in your area.
> > I live in metro NY, and it took over a decade to find ONE single ENT to > > write home about!
> > Susan
> I'm going to try these suggestions. I noticed my own GERD got worse > after taking large amounts of antibiotics for gallbladder problems, > and recurrent sinus infections with in the past couple of years. I > also stopped taking Reglan(because of side-effects) which helped > tremendously to control Acid Reflux.
> I was hospitalized last year with laryngitis, pharyngitis, and > esophagitis all because of LPR! Placed on antibiotics, and double > doses of PPI's which has now been reduced back down to one per day.
Babe:
Do you have contact with, or have had contact with wildlife, livestock and dogs?
Also does anyone in your area do RF ablation of the sinuses? Go to pubmed.gov, search and you will find that the RF procedure has better outcomes and patients experience fewer secondary infections than ordinary surgery but it is still considered "experimental" by some insurance companies.
> sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On Sep 9, 12:02 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > >>> with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > >>> suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > >>> side) from time to time? > >>> My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > >>> make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > >>> is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply! > >> It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower > >> respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same > >> breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery.
> >> You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just > >> swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you > >> take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion.
> >> Have you had a chest X-ray too?
> >> -- > >> Steven L. > >> Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > >> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> > Hi Steven,
> > Yes, I've had many chest X-rays, CT Scans and Pulmonary function test; > > everything checked out fine. They also looked into my throat with a > > laryngoscope, and told me that although initially my throat was very > > swollen, things appear to be almost back to normal with no signs of > > stenosis.
> Perhaps my experience would be enlightening:
> I had a negative CT scan of my sinuses. And two different ENTs looked > at it and both swore I had no sinus disease.
> But a third ENT knew better. He knew that sinus CT scans have about a > 5% chance of false negatives (failing to detect sinus disease). And so > we agreed to operate. And sure enough, during the surgery, he found > definite evidence of sinus disease in my sinuses that the CT scan had > missed.
> The only way to be sure is to push an endoscope all the way into your > sinuses and view them from the inside. But you have to be under general > anesthetic for that. That's why exploratory surgery may be the only > option for you, as it was for me.
> > I also forgot to mention that I suffer from a moderate to severe case > > of LPR(Laryngopharyngeal Reflux). Sometimes I get a lot of redness, > > swelling, and irritation in my throat from that; but during my last > > ENT visit in August, he told me that the redness and swelling had all > > but gone away, yet I still have this feeling of inflammation in my > > throat which causes me to feel short of breath.
> Three more points before you depart:
> 1. There is some evidence that gastroesophageal reflux (GERD), if it's > severe, can even cause sinusitis as well as bad laryngitis. That's > because when you lie down, acidic stomach contents can be refluxed all > the way up into your nasopharynx--or at least the fumes from your > stomach can be. In any case, it's important to get your GERD under > control. Long-term GERD increases your risk of esophageal cancer, which > is very serious.
> If you haven't already, see a gastroenterologist and get an endoscopy of > your upper gastrointestinal tract. If medication has failed to control > your GERD, then you may have an anatomical problem--a weak esophageal > sphincter--which may need treatment. (My lower esophageal sphincter is > permanently very weak, a genetic birth defect.) Treating your GERD > successfully may even help your sinus problems.
> In any case, in the meantime, try this: Do you eat a small breakfast in > the morning and a hearty dinner in the evening? Try INTERCHANGING those > meals. Eat a large, hearty breakfast (e.g., steak and eggs) in the > morning, and eat a small, light dinner (e.g., bagel and some fruit) in > the evening. You need the fuel in the morning to start the day anyway; > and a light dinner in the evening is much less likely to kick off GERD > at night.
> 2. As Susan indicated, I'm much more of a fan of SINUS surgery than I > am of TURBINATE surgery. If you have a small pocket of infection in one > of your sinuses, cleaning it out will be worthwhile. Turbinate > reduction, on the other hand, may be too risky for any benefits you'll > get. It can lead to "Empty Nose Syndrome," in which your upper > respiratory tract becomes chronically dry and inflamed due to removing > the turbinates which moisten the air. Kind of like running your air > conditioner with the filter removed. And that can't be repaired > surgically--you'll be permanently miserable.
> 3. Where do you live? Perhaps Susan or I can recommend a good ENT (or > ENT hospital department) in your area.
> -- > Steven L. > Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Steven;
I read the paper that Susan bought on the specificity(false positive) and sensitivity(false negatives) of the CT scan for detection of sinusitis. If I remember correctly BOTH HOVERED AROUND 50%. A CT scan can show if one has some sort of frank obstruction to the passage of air through the sinuses, but beyond that, they show no better predictive value than a coin toss. After an injury many years ago I had a series of x-rays done by an osteopath which were a work of art in their detail of soft tissue and clarity. The two CT scans that I have had do not compare at all in quality, and the others that I have seen are the same or worse. I have read thousands of industral x-rays over the years and have seen six or seven CT scans, mine, those here, and others on the net. They look overexposed. The voltage they use for the human CT scans is higher than I would use if I were trying to image detail in layers of rubber (soft tissue).
Then there is the matter of interrupting the x-ray, which requires that the interrupter have a knowledge of the surgical findings of a given x-ray presentation. For me it involved making the x-ray and then cutting up the speciman to find the defect, and a book, an atlas of defects and their corresponding x-rays, given a current, voltage, geometry, material and working distance.
There would seem to be a preticular problem getting the knowns. Getting the knowns to interpret sinus x-rays would involve the x-ray and immediate dissecting of a number of freshly dead heads before there were changes in the condition of the sinus mucosa to generate the atlas. Did they do that? I don't know, but I don't think so. The good ENTs accumulate enough experience over time, but since the ENTs, for 18 of the last 20 years have attributed almost all sinus problems to allergy and or complications of a deviated septum, and not an infectious disease problem, it is not clear to me that they recognize non-calcified markers on CT scans that would indicate infection, when they did not think infection existed, and in fact the first histology samples from sinus surgery that were inspected for biofilm infection were those that Sanderson did in 2006. So I would say that the atlas that would allow them to identify infections on the cat scan is probably at the stage that it is in someone's proposal for funding to the NIH about now. Still on the drawing board as it were.
Susan wrote: >> In any case, in the meantime, try this: Do you eat a small breakfast >> in the morning and a hearty dinner in the evening? Try INTERCHANGING >> those meals. Eat a large, hearty breakfast (e.g., steak and eggs) in >> the morning, and eat a small, light dinner (e.g., bagel and some >> fruit) in the evening. You need the fuel in the morning to start the >> day anyway; and a light dinner in the evening is much less likely to >> kick off GERD at night.
> Gosh, Steven, a bagel and juice is a terrible idea. It's pure sugar > meal as far as your pancreas, kidneys and nerves are concerned.
That's the point.
The sugar or carb hit will wear off quickly, after which you'll feel quite drowsy.
A protein-rich and fat-rich dinner is what keep you energized and awake at night.
>> 2. As Susan indicated, I'm much more of a fan of SINUS surgery than I >> am of TURBINATE surgery. If you have a small pocket of infection in >> one of your sinuses, cleaning it out will be worthwhile. Turbinate >> reduction, on the other hand, may be too risky for any benefits you'll >> get. It can lead to "Empty Nose Syndrome," in which your upper >> respiratory tract becomes chronically dry and inflamed due to removing >> the turbinates which moisten the air. Kind of like running your air >> conditioner with the filter removed. And that can't be repaired >> surgically--you'll be permanently miserable.
> Absolutely, and we've heard those tales of woe here in the past from > those who'd had the procedure.
>> 3. Where do you live? Perhaps Susan or I can recommend a good ENT >> (or ENT hospital department) in your area.
> I live in metro NY, and it took over a decade to find ONE single ENT to > write home about!
You never considered a visit to Dr. Tichenor?
-- Steven L. Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: > On Sep 11, 8:12 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote: >> sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: >>> On Sep 9, 12:02 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>> sunkissed_bab...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, >>>>> with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here >>>>> suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left >>>>> side) from time to time? >>>>> My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes >>>>> make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that >>>>> is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply! >>>> It can be caused by thick post nasal drip getting down into your lower >>>> respiratory tract, causing laryngitis or tracheitis. I had those same >>>> breathing and chest heaviness problems till I had sinus surgery. >>>> You may have more wrong with your upper respiratory tract than just >>>> swollen turbinates. You may have an infected sinus too. I suggest you >>>> take your CT scan films to another ENT for a second opinion. >>>> Have you had a chest X-ray too? >>>> -- >>>> Steven L. >>>> Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net >>>> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me. >>> Hi Steven, >>> Yes, I've had many chest X-rays, CT Scans and Pulmonary function test; >>> everything checked out fine. They also looked into my throat with a >>> laryngoscope, and told me that although initially my throat was very >>> swollen, things appear to be almost back to normal with no signs of >>> stenosis. >> Perhaps my experience would be enlightening:
>> I had a negative CT scan of my sinuses. And two different ENTs looked >> at it and both swore I had no sinus disease.
>> But a third ENT knew better. He knew that sinus CT scans have about a >> 5% chance of false negatives (failing to detect sinus disease). And so >> we agreed to operate. And sure enough, during the surgery, he found >> definite evidence of sinus disease in my sinuses that the CT scan had >> missed.
>> The only way to be sure is to push an endoscope all the way into your >> sinuses and view them from the inside. But you have to be under general >> anesthetic for that. That's why exploratory surgery may be the only >> option for you, as it was for me.
>>> I also forgot to mention that I suffer from a moderate to severe case >>> of LPR(Laryngopharyngeal Reflux). Sometimes I get a lot of redness, >>> swelling, and irritation in my throat from that; but during my last >>> ENT visit in August, he told me that the redness and swelling had all >>> but gone away, yet I still have this feeling of inflammation in my >>> throat which causes me to feel short of breath. >> Three more points before you depart:
>> 1. There is some evidence that gastroesophageal reflux (GERD), if it's >> severe, can even cause sinusitis as well as bad laryngitis. That's >> because when you lie down, acidic stomach contents can be refluxed all >> the way up into your nasopharynx--or at least the fumes from your >> stomach can be. In any case, it's important to get your GERD under >> control. Long-term GERD increases your risk of esophageal cancer, which >> is very serious.
>> If you haven't already, see a gastroenterologist and get an endoscopy of >> your upper gastrointestinal tract. If medication has failed to control >> your GERD, then you may have an anatomical problem--a weak esophageal >> sphincter--which may need treatment. (My lower esophageal sphincter is >> permanently very weak, a genetic birth defect.) Treating your GERD >> successfully may even help your sinus problems.
>> In any case, in the meantime, try this: Do you eat a small breakfast in >> the morning and a hearty dinner in the evening? Try INTERCHANGING those >> meals. Eat a large, hearty breakfast (e.g., steak and eggs) in the >> morning, and eat a small, light dinner (e.g., bagel and some fruit) in >> the evening. You need the fuel in the morning to start the day anyway; >> and a light dinner in the evening is much less likely to kick off GERD >> at night.
>> 2. As Susan indicated, I'm much more of a fan of SINUS surgery than I >> am of TURBINATE surgery. If you have a small pocket of infection in one >> of your sinuses, cleaning it out will be worthwhile. Turbinate >> reduction, on the other hand, may be too risky for any benefits you'll >> get. It can lead to "Empty Nose Syndrome," in which your upper >> respiratory tract becomes chronically dry and inflamed due to removing >> the turbinates which moisten the air. Kind of like running your air >> conditioner with the filter removed. And that can't be repaired >> surgically--you'll be permanently miserable.
>> 3. Where do you live? Perhaps Susan or I can recommend a good ENT (or >> ENT hospital department) in your area.
>> -- >> Steven L. >> Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net >> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> Ah! I have a tendency to eat light for breakfast and heavy at night, > especially before bed. I quite often lie down after dinner, which I've > heard is NOT good for GERD, so I'm working at trying to change that > habit. It's hard because most often I'm busy and catch a meal until > late in the evening.
Well, there you go. While you're sleeping, all those foods mixed with hydrochloric acid secreted by your stomach are being aspirated all the way up into your nasopharynx. The same thing that can cause LPR can also cause chronic rhinitis and sinusitis.
(I'm sure you realize that shooting hydrochloric acid into your sinuses isn't good for them.)
> During the next appointment with my ENT I'm going to ask him about the > Endoscope, and see what he says. Thanks for that suggestion!
> i know for certain that I have a weak lower esophageal sphincter, > because during two separate Upper G.I.'s, the doctor discovered that > the barium(as well as the pill you have to swallow) get's stuck there. > I have to stand up, move around, and swallow copious amounts of fluids > to get it to move out of my esophagus and into my stomach.
My own ENT has discovered that controlling GERD in his patients often leads to permanent control of their chronic sinusitis.
*BUT* he has discovered that it's NOT just the stomach acid that refluxes upward to cause sinusitis; it's all the other stomach contents. (Suppose you eat a spicy meal, or a salad made with oil and vinegar, and then reflux it. You're basically shooting all those spices and vinegar directly into your sinuses. No wonder they get inflamed.)
That means that neutralizing gastric juices isn't enough. The physical regurgitation has to be brought under control; hence my suggestion about eating a very tiny dinner.
Now in my case, that's difficult. A GI endoscopy revealed that I am *missing* one of the two esophageal sphincters--a congenital birth defect.
-- Steven L. Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
>> The sugar or carb hit will wear off quickly, after which you'll feel >> quite drowsy.
>> A protein-rich and fat-rich dinner is what keep you energized and >> awake at night.
> Not so, don't be ridiculous. That drowsiness, btw, also comes with > kidney, nerve and retina damage. It happens any time of day with that > kind of meal, even when you're supposed to be energetic and alert. It > causes pancreatic stress leading to diabetes and its progression.>
I meant all other things being equal.
No, the drowsiness is NOT caused by the protein and fat in the meal. The myth that it's caused by tryptophan has been refuted by careful study. It's simply because it's a harder type of meal to digest (your mouth enzymes begin to break down carbohydrates immediately), and the effort it takes your stomach to work on it tires you out.
But once it's gotten into your intestines, the protein and fat will provide long-term energy.
-- Steven L. Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > side) from time to time?
> My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
> Thanks
Watch it when they talk about removing turbinates. I had two(2) removed, because doctor felt it would keep area clean, and allow better drainage. The end result was it left open to more infection. I went to Cleveland Clinic. They went up my right nasal cavity with endoscope--- they carried on that I should never have allowed turbinates to be removed. They told me all they could do, was be more aggressive with infections--- but what was done, was done. They told me it was too bad.
>> I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, >> with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here >> suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left >> side) from time to time?
>> My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes >> make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that >> is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
>> Thanks
> Watch it when they talk about removing turbinates. I had two(2) > removed, because doctor felt it would keep area clean, and allow > better drainage. The end result was it left open to more infection. I > went to Cleveland Clinic. They went up my right nasal cavity with > endoscope--- they carried on that I should never have allowed > turbinates to be removed. They told me all they could do, was be more > aggressive with infections--- but what was done, was done. They told > me it was too bad.
Yep.
Turbinate reduction is just too risky, period.
-- Steven L. Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> > I've been suffering from swollen turbinates for a couple of years now, > > with the left one being the worst. I was wondering if anyone here > > suffered from difficulty breathing as well as chest heaviness(left > > side) from time to time?
> > My ENT wants to do surgery, but I've heard that surgery can sometimes > > make matters worse. I also have occasional wheezing in my larynx that > > is not asthma. If you can relate, please post a reply!
> > Thanks
> Watch it when they talk about removing turbinates. I had two(2) > removed, because doctor felt it would keep area clean, and allow > better drainage. The end result was it left open to more infection. I > went to Cleveland Clinic. They went up my right nasal cavity with > endoscope--- they carried on that I should never have allowed > turbinates to be removed. They told me all they could do, was be more > aggressive with infections--- but what was done, was done. They told > me it was too bad.
There is such a thing called "Empty Nose Syndrome" which has a lot of symptoms - all that make you sick. it is on google.
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