My wife suffers from sinus headaches & nose blocks many times a year. A para nasal x-ray showed that one of her sinuses are considerably smaller than the other or something like that.
I read about nasal irigation with Saline/Ringers in this newgroup and the links.
My wife is absolutely unwilling to try this - the thought of putting water into her nose scares her - and we don't get any of the other irrigators etc in my country - so the only way to do it is using a sports bottle or something - and this scares her a lot.
Anyway, I was looking for other alternatives which may not be as effective but will atleast help a little. I was wondering if I could buy an empty nose drop bottle & put ringers lactate in that & squeeze a couple of drops into her nose couple of times everyday (like one does with nosedrops) - will something like this help at all.
If yes, I have a few questions 1) The only Ringers Lactate I can find at the chemist is a 500 ml one - it looks something like this picture I googled up http://doubledove.trustexporter.com/product/detail/257/511333.htm There is no cap for the bottle which I can reseal etc. I have break the bottle & probably pour into another container. Can I use it this way - i.e once broken will the solution go stale or anything? Or can I keep using till it gets over? 2) Should I warm it a little before putting the drops in the nose?
Any other things which help?
- Steam Inhalation doesn't seem to help her much - Oxymetazoline nose drops help sometimes. - Levocetirizine Dihydrochloride 5 mg sometimes helps
Jake wrote: > My wife suffers from sinus headaches & nose blocks many times > a year. A para nasal x-ray showed that one of her sinuses are considerably > smaller than the other or something like that.
> I read about nasal irigation with Saline/Ringers in this newgroup > and the links.
> My wife is absolutely unwilling to try this - the thought of putting water > into > her nose scares her - and we don't get any of the other irrigators etc in my > country - so the only way to do it is using a sports bottle or something - > and > this scares her a lot.
> Anyway, I was looking for other alternatives which may not be as effective > but will atleast help a little. I was wondering if I could buy an empty nose > drop bottle & put ringers lactate in that & squeeze a couple of drops into > her nose couple of times everyday (like one does with nosedrops) - will > something like this help at all.
It's not going to help very much, sorry. A few drops in the nose won't penetrate the sinuses.
> If yes, I have a few questions > 1) The only Ringers Lactate I can find at the chemist is a 500 ml one > - it looks something like this picture I googled up > http://doubledove.trustexporter.com/product/detail/257/511333.htm > There is no cap for the bottle which I can reseal etc. I have break the > bottle & probably pour into another container. Can I use it this way > - i.e once broken will the solution go stale or anything? Or can I keep > using till it gets over?
I wouldn't risk it. You don't want any microbes to grow in there and then get into your wife's nose. Saline should be discarded after 24 hours.
It does feel better to warm the saline to roughly nasal temperature (89 degrees Fahrenheit).
> Any other things which help?
> - Steam Inhalation doesn't seem to help her much > - Oxymetazoline nose drops help sometimes. > - Levocetirizine Dihydrochloride 5 mg sometimes helps
Don't use oxymetazoline except on rare occasions. It causes a "rebound effect"--once it wears off, the congestion returns even worse than before. This creates an urge to use it again, and again, resulting in addiction.
Instead, ask your doctor about a steroid nasal spray, like Flonase.
Your wife should see an Ear-Nose-Throat physician (otolaryngologist). He may be able to treat your wife's sinus problems.
-- Steven L. Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
>> - Steam Inhalation doesn't seem to help her much >> - Oxymetazoline nose drops help sometimes. >> - Levocetirizine Dihydrochloride 5 mg sometimes helps
> Don't use oxymetazoline except on rare occasions. It causes a "rebound > effect"--once it wears off, the congestion returns even worse than before. > This creates an urge to use it again, and again, resulting in addiction.
> Instead, ask your doctor about a steroid nasal spray, like Flonase.
She got prescribed Rhinocort Acqua - (Budesonide)
She has been using it for a week now. How long can one use this continously? She just sprays one in each nose every evening.
>> She got prescribed Rhinocort Acqua - (Budesonide)
>> She has been using it for a week now. >> How long can one use this continously? >> She just sprays one in each nose every evening.
> Switch that to morning to avoid 24 hour, 7 day a week adrenal suppression. > Steroids administered in the a.m. suppress adrenal function for 12 hours, > at night, 24 hours. Do not believe anyone who tells you that nasal and > inhaled steroids don't cause adrenal suppression; they're actually known > to cause Cushing's syndrome and growth retardation in children.
Thanks, Susan. That's scary. Is it through continous use or through short term use also? Also now if my wife wants to stop using Rhinocort, should she taper the use before quitting - is there a recommened tapering regimen - she has been using it for around 2 weeks now.
> Take a week off at least every 3 weeks, or one week on, one week off to > avoid chronic adrenal suppression.
> Get allergic desensitization to avoid the need for chronic steroid use.
> Better yet, switch to Astelin nasal spray to shut down allergic > inflammation non steroidally.
Does this have any problems like Oxymetazoline problems mentioned by Steven L? How long can this be used? Is this prevention or cure?
>> Thanks, Susan. That's scary. >> Is it through continous use or through short term use also? >> Also now if my wife wants to stop using Rhinocort, should she taper the >> use >> before quitting - is there a recommened tapering regimen - she has been >> using >> it for around 2 weeks now.
> It's usually with chronic use, though I've heard of anecdotal cases with > immediate problems, they are the exception.
> If she switches to the a.m. takes a week off every other week or every > three weeks, at least, she shouldn't need to taper.
What if she wants to stop now. Can she stop right away? Or should she taper?
The dose per spray is around 64 mcg. For the first 3-4 days, she took 2 sprays per nose per day - so that was 256 mcg per day. Since then it has been 1 spray per nose. So that's 128 mcg per day.
I am thinking - let her skip one day. Then next a.m, spray just one nose - so it's just 64 mcg. Skip one more day. Then next a.m, spray just the other nose. And then stop all together. Is that good enough.
> If she *does* feel worse, or trembly or weak, that's a good sign that > she's too easily suppressed and that steroids may be a very bad choice for > her.
>> Does this have any problems like Oxymetazoline problems mentioned by >> Steven L?
> It causes skin atrophy in the nasal tissues that makes it much more porous > and less competent as a barrier against infection, a problem I have after > years of use decades ago. It also suppresses host immunity in those > tissues, so over time, your own immune cells can't fight infections as > well.
> It doesn't cause the rebound congestion of the other sprays, which I never > use in the doses recommended or more than once per day, on the rare > occasions I use it at all.
>> How long can this be used? Is this prevention or cure?
> It's neither. It's treatment, and if used long term will end up worsening > the condition it's meant to treat. If the problem is allergy, I'd switch > to Astelin, but you still want to get aggressive (3 mos schedule) allergic > desensitization to avoid chronic usage and inflammation that can lead to > chronic infections.
How to determine if the problem is allergy? And what exactly is allergic densensisation? I googled but couldn't find much?
This is my wife's problem. Atleast twice a year she ends up taking antibiotics for sinus problems. And atleast a couple of times a month, she gets sinus headaches which lasts for a couple of days. This has been happening for almost 3-4 years or more.
>> She got prescribed Rhinocort Acqua - (Budesonide)
>> She has been using it for a week now. >> How long can one use this continously? >> She just sprays one in each nose every evening.
> Switch that to morning to avoid 24 hour, 7 day a week adrenal > suppression. Steroids administered in the a.m. suppress adrenal > function for 12 hours, at night, 24 hours. Do not believe anyone who > tells you that nasal and inhaled steroids don't cause adrenal > suppression; they're actually known to cause Cushing's syndrome and > growth retardation in children.
> Take a week off at least every 3 weeks, or one week on, one week off to > avoid chronic adrenal suppression.
Excuse me, you're NOT her physician and you shouldn't be changing her dosing schedule.
No patient should make changes to dosing schedules on his own without discussing it with his OWN physician.
How about telling Mr & Mrs. Jake to discuss an alternate-period dosing schedule with their physician?
There is a test, the ACTH (cosyntropin) stimulation test, that can detect HPA axis suppression. Jake should ask the physician about having this test done every year or so while he's on steroids.
> Get allergic desensitization to avoid the need for chronic steroid use.
> Better yet, switch to Astelin nasal spray to shut down allergic > inflammation non steroidally.
Astelin is not a substitute for topical corticosteroids. It's a topical antihistamine--but there are lots of inflammations, such as non-allergic rhinitis caused by irritants, that aren't true IgE-mediated allergic reactions.
-- Steven L. Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
> My wife suffers from sinus headaches & nose blocks many times ... > I read about nasal irigation with Saline/Ringers in this newgroup ... > My wife is absolutely unwilling to try this - the thought of putting water ... > 1) The only Ringers Lactate I can find at the chemist is a 500 ml one
For something that is described as a modified Ringers Lactate (uses xylitol instead of Glucose), and is made specifically for nasal irrigation (both the spray kind you're thinking of, and the through- the-nose kind that she really needs to do), search for Breathe-Ease. It's a powder, so no concerns about contamination of open bottles; you mix it up as needed. You can also get Neil-med and other brand saline packets at a drugstore, however they're usually only pharma-grade baking soda and non-iodized salt.
On Nov 17, 9:19 am, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> Breathe-Ease is totally unnecessarily and wildly expensive.
> Avoid it and buy a big box of kosher salt, and add some xylitol granules > and a pinch of baking soda if you feel like it. Costs pennies for a > year's worth of irrigation solution.
> I've stopped adding xylitol and baking soda, and do just fine with plain > kosher salt.
I'm well aware of the cost of Breathe-ease and I have always have uniodized salt and Xylitol packets in my medicine cabinet. However these (plus a pinchof baking soda) do not Ringers Lactate make. There's research suggesting RL is better to irrigatie with (including some by the good doctor, and some on the Neilmed site), plus the man asked about RL. And similarly for Xylitol.
>> Thanks, Susan. That's scary. >> Is it through continous use or through short term use also? >> Also now if my wife wants to stop using Rhinocort, should she taper the >> use >> before quitting - is there a recommened tapering regimen - she has been >> using >> it for around 2 weeks now.
> It's usually with chronic use, though I've heard of anecdotal cases with > immediate problems, they are the exception.
> If she switches to the a.m. takes a week off every other week or every > three weeks, at least, she shouldn't need to taper. If she *does* feel > worse, or trembly or weak, that's a good sign that she's too easily > suppressed and that steroids may be a very bad choice for her.
Ok - she had some weakness for a couple of days after stopping, but is fine now.
>> How long can this be used? Is this prevention or cure?
> It's neither. It's treatment, and if used long term will end up worsening > the condition it's meant to treat. If the problem is allergy, I'd switch > to Astelin, but you still want to get aggressive (3 mos schedule) allergic > desensitization to avoid chronic usage and inflammation that can lead to > chronic infections.
Do you know if Astelin contains Benzalkonium also?
Also using Astelin 3 days a month - is that also likely to worsen the condition?
We drive to a neighbouring city once every month or so - the journey takes 3 hours & we return after 2-3 days. Though the 2 cities are near there is some weather difference between the 2. The place where we stay is little colder (3-4 degress celcius colder - though neither places are very cold) & is also less humid than the city we travel to. We drive back on Monday mornings usually & on reaching home, many times my wife develops a sinus headache which lasts for a day or two. Do you think spraying Astelin either before or after driving help prevent the headache?
I know I should be asking the doc this - but my primary physician doesn't seem to take this seriously.
>> Thanks, Susan. That's scary. >> Is it through continous use or through short term use also? >> Also now if my wife wants to stop using Rhinocort, should she taper the >> use >> before quitting - is there a recommened tapering regimen - she has been >> using >> it for around 2 weeks now.
> It's usually with chronic use, though I've heard of anecdotal cases with > immediate problems, they are the exception.
> If she switches to the a.m. takes a week off every other week or every > three weeks, at least, she shouldn't need to taper. If she *does* feel > worse, or trembly or weak, that's a good sign that she's too easily > suppressed and that steroids may be a very bad choice for her.
Ok - she had some weakness for a couple of days after stopping, but is fine now.
>> How long can this be used? Is this prevention or cure?
> It's neither. It's treatment, and if used long term will end up worsening > the condition it's meant to treat. If the problem is allergy, I'd switch > to Astelin, but you still want to get aggressive (3 mos schedule) allergic > desensitization to avoid chronic usage and inflammation that can lead to > chronic infections.
Do you know if Astelin contains Benzalkonium also?
Also using Astelin 3 days a month - is that also likely to worsen the condition?
We drive to a neighbouring city once every month or so - the journey takes 3 hours & we return after 2-3 days. Though the 2 cities are near there is some weather difference between the 2. The place where we stay is little colder (3-4 degress celcius colder - though neither places are very cold) & is also less humid than the city we travel to. We drive back on Monday mornings usually & on reaching home, many times my wife develops a sinus headache which lasts for a day or two. Do you think spraying Astelin either before or after driving help prevent the headache?
I know I should be asking the doc this - but my primary physician doesn't seem to take this seriously.
>> Also using Astelin 3 days a month - is that also likely to worsen >> the condition?
> Probably not. A month? If she has nasal inflammation or allergies, the > key is to get desensitized to them. The reduction in inflammation is so > key to treating and preventing chronic sinus issues.
>> We drive to a neighbouring city once every month or so - the >> journey takes 3 hours & we return after 2-3 days. Though the >> 2 cities are near there is some weather difference between the >> 2. The place where we stay is little colder (3-4 degress celcius >> colder - though neither places are very cold) & is also less >> humid than the city we travel to. We drive back on Monday >> mornings usually & on reaching home, many times my wife >> develops a sinus headache which lasts for a day or two. >> Do you think spraying Astelin either before or after driving >> help prevent the headache?
> If her headache is allergy related. She REALLY can avoid most of that > problem, if it's from inhalants, by irrigating.
Is using something like Astelin better than an oral antihistamine like Allegra?
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