I said if you were I was entirely fooled...my posts and thoughts seem to
meander amongst the threads..even then the dots don't always connect.

As to bringing out the real....it's always seen as the real 'you' (not
just you, Gary) when the negative or hostile surfaces. Like this wipes out
the positive and compassionate side....isn't this merely looking thru the
window and seeing the whole of each individual?

What is interesting to me isn't this so called 'real' as much as the
degree and difference between this side of an individual and the other
side.

What "REAL AA spiritual life looks like" to me is the fact that it is Labor
Day in the United States, and just Monday in most of the rest of the world.

I'd venture to say that there is at least one or two AA members in every
major town in America who are taking the time out of a Holiday to sit in an
Intergroup office and answer the phone rather than be at home with family
or out celebrating with friends. I imagine they each have a list of at
least one person who is willing to take and go on a "Twelve Step Call" if
needed.

I'd say there are a couple of people in every major town in America who is
going to put everything down at a particular time today to go out get in
their car, on their bike, or walk to an AA meeting place, open the doors,
make the coffee, do the things necessary to insure that there will be a
meeting should someone feel a need to reach out for the hand of AA.

I'd say that most all over the world, since today is Monday, and the start
of the work week, that there was a hell of a lot of people who had just
come to the end of their rope over the weekend and had arrived at a point
in life where they decided they either had to change or die and sought out
some kind of help or consolation from some representative of AA who was
willing to take time out of a busy Monday schedule and share some
"Experience, Strength and Hope" that may just possibly have some bearing on
the future of the person who may have reached out.

I'd say AA spirituality is something like I feel sometimes when I go out to
the old "VA Mental Hospital" here in Waco and see the little granite plaque
under a tree out there in memory of a little dried up quiet, soft spoken
man named Homer, who gave a major portion of his life, way above and beyond
what the VA paid him to help and provide a little inspiration to countless
VA bums like myself who had lost all hope of ever getting it all back
together again.

I'd say AA spirituality is like a friend of mine over in Groesbeck who as
long as I've known him, several nights a week takes his own car and goes
out around town and picks up several fledgling drunks and hauls them to
meetings sometimes as far as eighty miles round trip.

I'd say AA spirituality is like a lot of people who have come and gone on
this NG who came to the conclusion that they could better serve or change
AA by being where the action is. By being a part of AA, serving on
committees, doing the foot work that needs to be done.

I'd say AA spirituality is like your friend Luke.

I'd say AA spirituality is countless people who came to AA and decided that
even though it's not perfect, and is made up of human beings, and although
they had feelings hurt on occasion. Even though they were on occasion told
things that didn't wash. Even though they may have gone out and got drunk
after their first time kept coming back, because they had enough sense to
realize that the sum total of the positives outweighed the negatives and
the little slights to their thin skinned raw nerves were no more than they
found out in the world that were perpetuated by people who had no contact
with nor knew shit about AA.

AA spirituality is the Fellowship. The human contact. The relief from the
feeling of being so fucking alone. AA spirituality is a place to go in a
world where it is damned hard to find a place for social interaction unless
it's in a place where liquor is served, drugs being used, or a cover charge
levied at the door.

AA spirituality is feeling in a safe place and not be hassled by predators
that populate our public gathering places for an old person like me who can
no longer handle the confrontation generated by refusal or inability to
meet the needs of some shit head who thinks, I ought to give up the last
bit of change in my pocket to support some habit.

AA spirituality is "Progress, not perfection" and hopefully trying to bring
the drunk up to the level of AA and society, not taking AA and Society down
to the level of the drunk or drug user.

AA spirituality is what you might see and feel if you went to a meeting
someplace with an open mind and a willingness to accept the "individual
differences" in the human race.

AA spirituality is a hell of a lot more than the screen names and personas
you see scrolling across your CRT and a few posters here who would probably
run like hell or move to a different town if they felt they might be
visited by another posting member of the NG and who guard their anonymity
for reasons a hell of a long distance removed from the traditions.

Charlie

GaryE <gary...@cyberramp.net> wrote in article
<35f71633.150978...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...

Maybe AA ain't through with you yet. ;-)

As far as the post to Tom about wondering where "Charlie of Chronocidal
Fame" was, he's been here all along. Conservation of energy Gary. Important
to me. ;-) Some people just ain't worth fucking with. As far as the
calling, I think back to a virtual handshake between you and I and
expectations we might have of each other. Seen the other day where you'd
been off to Colorado for a spell. Hope all went well, and maybe we'll be
able to get that cup of coffee together one of these days either up there
or down here.

Did you see where PETA is launching a massive campaign against Fishing.
They say it doesn't take much skill or thought and is cruel to the fish.
;-)

Thanks for a thought provoking post Gary. Needed it.

Charlie

GaryE <gary...@cyberramp.net> wrote in article
<35f54e5a.165355...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...

I'm sorely tempted at times to wade right in and blast someone whose
apparent mission is primarily discordant,  but each time I choose not
to I'm grateful the next day.  

When I look, (and yes I have to admit that I do), for those who do not
have "dual standards of judging" I look inside my memory for the names
of the regulars here who have *not* posted in threads such as you
referred to.  Their silence speaks to me clearly.

Maybe for many of those who don't, it's nothing more than hitting the
delete key with the message unread.  If so, it's still a conscious
choice to live by certain principles, yes?  

I will know a little more certainly, I think, that some growth has
taken place when I less frequently even bother to look.  Then I will
know that my life is more full of what it should be and less involved
with who out here ain't living up to the standards they preach, much
less the ones I think they should be. <bwahahaaa>  I have reason to
believe that on that night when my head hits the pillow, I will sleep
at peace.

All the best,

((CW: I've spent some time around the program, mainly as a
"fringe-dweller".  I would probably go as far as to say that the only
reason that I'm a member, is because I say I am.
There are a quite a number of things that I don't like or respect about
anonymous programs and I would have absolutely no problem with "bailing"
out.))

((CW: Besides, the amount of time and energy you seem to spend "fighting
the power", indicates to me, either religious fervor or that you're
getting paid....well!))

((CW: What's come across clearly in your postings about Rational Recovery
though is this:))

((CW: You might want to reexamine RR's decision to reject the steppers'
"attraction rather than promotion" policy.))

I forget that something said "in writing", comes across a little more
harshly than it does verbally.  Contrary to the tone of my previous post
though, I do enjoy DD's sarcasm and irreverence.  My intention was not to
discourage, but rather to engage. DD's use of this particular ng to "fan
the flames" of discontent, was what I was taking issue with.  I was giving
DD the benefit of the doubt by avoiding arbitrary assumptions that his
posts were purely malicious or vindictive.  What I was hoping for was a
more focused, objective dialogue, involving "the real enemy", drug and
alcohol abuse.  Bitching is just bitching, it's unproductive.  What also
failed to occur to me, was that there just might be some history on this
ng, involving DD and others, that I'm not aware of.