> > > > > >>> OK - dibs on the couch!!! > > > > > >>> Kimba
> > > > > >>Hey, move your Highness on over...
> > > > > >Hey, can I snuggle between the two of ya'? This > > > > > >probably won't have the emotional appeal of a good > > > > > >Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie, but it should do.
> > > > > Well, all right, but if you persist in making those weird burpy > > > > > noises, you'll have to sit on the floor.
> > > > > Kimba
> > > > uh Kimba, those noises weren't coming from his mouth....
> > yep, been listening to your opinions long enough to recognize that sound all > > the way over here.
> > Derek
> What a lame response.... Truth is, Derek, you're obsessed with > other guys asses.... Homer sounds like a good match for you....:O) > You're a snarf, dude.... You fart in the bathtub so you can bite > the bubble....:O)
> Tom
Does Henry know you are out of cage again?
Derek wondering where Tom get's all of these detailed descriptions, personal experience maybe?
>> We had a meeting in this area that condoned marijuana smoking--claimed it was a >> harmless substance and as along as people didn't drink every thing was okay.
>> P.S. That group lasted only a few months--everyone in it got drunk.
>Now I'm really scared. We have a meeting in this area where they used to >have a hooker raffle once a month - it's been going for over forty years. >Can we then conclude that your group will have longevity if you auction >whores once in a while?
> > What a lame response.... Truth is, Derek, you're obsessed with > > other guys asses.... Homer sounds like a good match for you....:O) > > You're a snarf, dude.... You fart in the bathtub so you can bite > > the bubble....:O)
> > Tom
> Does Henry know you are out of cage again?
> Derek > wondering where Tom get's all of these detailed descriptions, personal > experience maybe?
Now here I go, sharing experience with the troubled Skywalker and you make sport of my sharing.... Tsk, tsk, tsk.... Where do I get the descriptions?? I have a life.... I know real people and don't hide in an obscure little newsgroup like you.....:O)
Tom
\\\|/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo------------------------------- Tom Gosnell the...@erols.com --------------Oooo----------------------------- oooO ( ) ( ) ) / To visit my Website... \ ( (_/ Click there --> http://www.erols.com/thegoz/ \_)
> > > What a lame response.... Truth is, Derek, you're obsessed with > > > other guys asses.... Homer sounds like a good match for you....:O) > > > You're a snarf, dude.... You fart in the bathtub so you can bite > > > the bubble....:O)
> > > Tom
> > Does Henry know you are out of cage again?
> > Derek > > wondering where Tom get's all of these detailed descriptions, personal > > experience maybe?
> Now here I go, sharing experience with the troubled Skywalker > and you make sport of my sharing.... Tsk, tsk, tsk.... Where do I get > the descriptions?? I have a life.... I know real people and don't hide > in an obscure little newsgroup like you.....:O)
> Tom
and you compare that to making fun of me when I was sexually abused as child? I was taught that was called being a hypocrite. playing victim like fransway. the difference between me and you on that type of behavior is that I say you can do as please because I know you will anyway, and I know I will stay chemical free inspite of that. I accept responsibility for my life and my actions today.
Your response also says you come up with these detailed descriptions from personal experience. So you are admitting to biting fart bubbles in the bath. Your own?
Derek who's starting to gain a new respect for Tom. Anyone that weird and sober has got to be trying really hard.
"Derek M." wrote: > and you compare that to making fun of me when I was sexually abused as > child? I was taught that was called being a hypocrite.
<remainder of your juvenile nonsense deleted>
I defy you you to produce *one* instance of where I ridiculed you for being sexually abused as a child. Now you're making the shit up..... I have poked fun at you for being a dipshit, but I've never made fun of any sexual abuse....
Tom
\\\|/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo------------------------------- Tom Gosnell the...@erols.com --------------Oooo----------------------------- oooO ( ) ( ) ) / To visit my Website... \ ( (_/ Click there --> http://www.erols.com/thegoz/ \_)
> Ken, just my opinion, but it sounds to me like you are trying to justify smoking > pot while still maintaining that you are sober. Pot *is* addictive, and it is > illegal. It can impair your thinking. If you get caught driving while it is in > your system, you can get a DUI. The bottom-line is that it s a mind-altering > chemical. If it were me, I could not in good conscious smoke pot and then aver > that I am sober.
> Whatever your reasons for asking, I wish you all the best. Good luck! :)
> -Sandy > "No limits Jonathon?" He said, and he laughed. His race to learn had begun. > - from Jonathon Livingston Seagull
> Remove NOSPAM to reply
I don't remember which side of the 'only alcoholics should be allowed in AA' issue you came down on (if either).
But, for those that say only an alcoholic belongs in AA, it should also follow that the use of *any* substance, other than alcohol, has no bearing on a person's length of sobriety.
> Turf, meets Thursday nights. They don't do the raffles since the time the > guy they sent out to pick up the merchandise latched onto an undercover > cop.
> Cheers, > Lech
Are we to conclude that the group is now in danger of going under?
> > and you compare that to making fun of me when I was sexually abused as > > child? I was taught that was called being a hypocrite.
> <remainder of your juvenile nonsense deleted>
> I defy you you to produce *one* instance of where I ridiculed > you for being sexually abused as a child. Now you're making the > shit up..... I have poked fun at you for being a dipshit, but I've > never made fun of any sexual abuse....
> Tom
Maybe that was the way I perceived it when I told you why I reacted to the NYPD pedo troll the way I did.
> > > and you compare that to making fun of me when I was sexually abused as > > > child? I was taught that was called being a hypocrite.
> > <remainder of your juvenile nonsense deleted>
> > I defy you you to produce *one* instance of where I ridiculed > > you for being sexually abused as a child. Now you're making the > > shit up..... I have poked fun at you for being a dipshit, but I've > > never made fun of any sexual abuse....
> > Tom
> Maybe that was the way I perceived it when I told you why I reacted to the > NYPD pedo troll the way I did.
> I might be wrong, I doubt it though.
> Derek
Bullshit. You're making a gratuitous assertion. You probably don't know what that means, even though you do it all the time, so I'll tell you. You make an assertion, but you can't or refuse to back up said assertion with facts. You're such an expert on digging up dirt on others here, yet you can't produce the *proof*.? There's a good reason for this. You're telling a goddam lie and I think you know it.... Put up or shut up, loudmouth... You try to belittle others and then piously claim that you don't.... not if they're honestly sharing ESH.... Liar.... Roleplayer....
Tom
P.S. I remember the post you refer to and I made no response whatsoever...
\\\|/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo------------------------------- Tom Gosnell the...@erols.com --------------Oooo----------------------------- oooO ( ) ( ) ) / To visit my Website... \ ( (_/ Click there --> http://www.erols.com/thegoz/ \_)
>> Ken, just my opinion, but it sounds to me like you are trying to justify >smoking >> pot while still maintaining that you are sober. Pot *is* addictive, and it >is >> illegal. It can impair your thinking. If you get caught driving while it >is in >> your system, you can get a DUI. The bottom-line is that it s a >mind-altering >> chemical. If it were me, I could not in good conscious smoke pot and then >aver >> that I am sober.
>> Whatever your reasons for asking, I wish you all the best. Good luck! :)
>> -Sandy >> "No limits Jonathon?" He said, and he laughed. His race to learn had >begun. >> - from Jonathon Livingston Seagull
>> Remove NOSPAM to reply
>I don't remember which side of the 'only alcoholics should be allowed in AA' >issue you came down on (if either).
>But, for those that say only an alcoholic belongs in AA, it should also >follow that the use of *any* substance, other than alcohol, has no bearing >on a person's length of sobriety.
>-- >Erwin
Erwin, I am an alcoholic and an addict. I came down on the side of welcoming addicts who are also alcoholics into all meetings, and welcoming addicts into open meetings when living in an area that has no decent NA meetings around. I can't talk about my ES&H without talking about alcohol AND drugs, but because both are a part of my story. Like I said above, for me, personally, I could not use pot and still claim sobriety in good conscious.
In article <3750acc7.205729...@news.mindspring.com>, guileakast...@mindspring.com says...
>I swear this is true. I personally know a fellow who cut his father's >head off because he ate all the bacon without saving any for his son's >breakfast. Watch out for bacon if you want to stay sober.
>aka Steve
Decapitation over bacon? I hope that guy is in jail!
At first I thought you were sincere about your question. But having followed the thread for a little, I have changed my opinion. You seem to be bound on proving that pot is 'benign', 'medicinal', etc. I wonder who you are trying to persuade. Araa-ers or yourself. Why would you post a question like this in the first place? I can think of two reasons: a) you are genuinely wondering whether you are on the right track, implying that there is some doubt in your mind, or b) you are trying to sell the idea that pot is an innocent pastime (...to us; a group of people who are trying to come off whatever it was that we were on and was destroying us). I dare to make a guess that it is b), given that you are very argumentative, opinionated, stubborn and at times outright rude about what people are trying to say. I don't think it is a) because of the above.
There was a load of press here recently about the benefits of having some red wine every day. Scientists believe it is good practise to lower the risk of coronary trouble. Probably is. Does it matter to me? The opinion of these nerds or my own experience? Some people can have a joint every now and then, get the giggles and get on with their lives. Very remedial for them. I smoked for long periods all day every day. That's my nature; I needed to draw some conclusions. Never mind what anybody has to say about the subject. I think you are well qualified to make up your own mind on whether it is okay to be out of your head during recovery, and you are certainly not waiting for our/my experiences or opinions.
If you think pot is innocent, why pose the question in the first place? Who cares what you, other users or scientists have to say about the matter? I have smoked pot -on and off- for 28 years. I didn't give a damn about what any tom, dick or harry had to say about it, didn't care whether it is illegal (never been arrested for possession in all those years ). I did it, and for a long time I liked it. What matters to me now is that it was time for me to get off it. It was seriously screwing up my thought processes, my concentration, my memory, my chest. In spite of that observation it took a major depression and a crisis in work to stop. As with the booze, I take it one day at a time with it, and most of the time I am happy not to be stoned anymore.
BTW, who would stop you from going to meetings anyway? There is nothing like being stoned out of your mind and arguing with people from the safety of your armchair, isn't it. Been there, done that.
unique wrote in message <374E46A8.EB24...@ptd.net>... >Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding >use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>Within the program and the rooms, I suspect and sense a lot of >attitudinal frowning upon the use of this substance, even though it (1) >is *outside* the realm of AA considerations, and (2) its potential for >leading toward "addictive" abuse is generally agreed to be way less than >that of nicotine, and comparable to that of caffeine, if not actually >less.
>How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes >and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more >potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain >for this relatively benign intoxicant?
>Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining >my sobriety.
At first I thought you were sincere about your question. But having followed the thread for a little, I have changed my opinion. You seem to be bound on proving that pot is 'benign', 'medicinal', etc. I wonder who you are trying to persuade. Araa-ers or yourself. Why would you post a question like this in the first place? I can think of two reasons: a) you are genuinely wondering whether you are on the right track, implying that there is some doubt in your mind, or b) you are trying to sell the idea that pot is an innocent pastime (...to us; a group of people who are trying to come off whatever it was that we were on and was destroying us). I dare to make a guess that it is b), given that you are very argumentative, opinionated, stubborn and at times outright rude about what people are trying to say. I don't think it is a) because of the above.
There was a load of press here recently about the benefits of having some red wine every day. Scientists believe it is good practise to lower the risk of coronary trouble. Probably is. Does it matter to me? The opinion of these nerds or my own experience? Some people can have a joint every now and then, get the giggles and get on with their lives. Very remedial for them. I smoked for long periods all day every day. That's my nature; I needed to draw some conclusions. Never mind what anybody has to say about the subject. I think you are well qualified to make up your own mind on whether it is okay to be out of your head during recovery, and you are certainly not waiting for our/my experiences or opinions.
If you think pot is innocent, why pose the question in the first place? Who cares what you, other users or scientists have to say about the matter? I have smoked pot -on and off- for 28 years. I didn't give a damn about what any tom, dick or harry had to say about it, didn't care whether it is illegal (never been arrested for possession in all those years ). I did it, and for a long time I liked it. What matters to me now is that it was time for me to get off it. It was seriously screwing up my thought processes, my concentration, my memory, my chest. In spite of that observation it took a major depression and a crisis in work to stop. As with the booze, I take it one day at a time with it, and most of the time I am happy not to be stoned anymore.
BTW, who would stop you from going to meetings anyway? There is nothing like being stoned out of your mind and arguing with people from the safety of your armchair, isn't it. Been there, done that.
unique wrote in message <374E46A8.EB24...@ptd.net>... >Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding >use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>Within the program and the rooms, I suspect and sense a lot of >attitudinal frowning upon the use of this substance, even though it (1) >is *outside* the realm of AA considerations, and (2) its potential for >leading toward "addictive" abuse is generally agreed to be way less than >that of nicotine, and comparable to that of caffeine, if not actually >less.
>How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes >and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more >potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain >for this relatively benign intoxicant?
>Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining >my sobriety.
I swear this is true. I personally know a fellow who cut his father's head off because he ate all the bacon without saving any for his son's breakfast. Watch out for bacon if you want to stay sober.
aka Steve ==================== reply without guile =======================
On Sat, 29 May 1999 00:56:58 -0400, "Derek M." <der...@mind.com> wrote:
>RRiley9945 <rriley9...@aol.com> wrote in message >news:19990528183902.13204.00006126@ng-fk1.aol.com... >> We had a meeting in this area that condoned marijuana smoking--claimed it >was a >> harmless substance and as along as people didn't drink every thing was >okay.
>> P.S. That group lasted only a few months--everyone in it got drunk.
>I read a story in the paper a few months back where a kid was being >prosecuted for beating his mother because she would not share her pot with >the boy.
Lech K. Lesiak wrote in message <7ip6il$...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>... >On Sat, 29 May 1999, Grace wrote:
>> Who is Maddy Prior, Lech? snip
>Maddy Prior is an English lady with a voice to die for. snip
Rick Kemp Peter KNight Nigel Pegrum Tim Hart Robert Johnson Maddy Prior
Better known as Steeleye Span... and Lech just continues to impress one with his fine musical taste. I have their All Around My Hat, Storm Force Ten, Tempted and Tried, Time, and Tonights the Night (live) recordings and two or three times a year I go on a run of a few weeks back to back of playing little else, except maybe Rennaisance, Wolfstone and the likes. Do you see any similarities in Steeleye Span and Rennaisance? Or should I say Maddy and Annie (as neither organization seems to make good without their leading women)? By the way, Garnett Rogers is in Pittsburgh this weekend, but having traveled in there to see Nanci Griffith last night... a return trip this soon would be rather unlikely. Will get to hear him some day, though.
------------ The early worm gets eaten. Post or lose an 'n' to reply.
RRiley9945 wrote: > We had a meeting in this area that condoned marijuana smoking--claimed it was a > harmless substance and as along as people didn't drink every thing was okay.
> P.S. That group lasted only a few months--everyone in it got drunk.
> You said the word "intoxicant" when speaking of > pot. The words "sober"
Means "not drunk".
> and "intoxicant"
Any "poison" (toxic) taken into the system.
> mix as well as tequila, gin and > grapefruit juice (now why did I say that, my stomach just did a flip-flop).
> Now, in my exaulted opinion, which is just for me, and only for me mind you, > the purpose of being sober is to live life without the use of > intoxicants...you know that old "life on life's terms".
Could we replace "intoxicants" with "mood alterers"? I think it would make this an even more interesting discussion.
So, life on life's terms. And life includes many mood alterers. We're all doing it all the time, whether we're aware of it or not, just because it's a natural instinct of any animal to avoid pain and to approach pleasure. We do what feels good. This "feeling good" can of course include rational considerations, etc. Something feels right, we do it. Doing it alters our mood in a pleasurable way.
I like roller coasters. Riding them induces neurochemical changes in me that I find extremely pleasurable. Same with those fast-drop rides. Even a speedy elevator, going down, will do nicely.
> This is because, and here's the kicker, they don't work anymore.
Well of course *if* they don't work anymore, why continue?
> They don't do what they are supposed to do.
"Supposed to do"?
> They don't make you feel better, more relaxed, more > clear-headed, or anything like that.
Are we talking about marijuana?
> I believe that in AA the phrase is "a > drink or a substitute". So you are using a substitute.
For the third time, I never said I'm using marijuana.
Now I need a list of substitutes. One highly respected man at a top rehab in the US clearly includes caffeine, nicotine, and sugar. Are these on your list?
> For me, none of this > stuff does anything but get me in trouble,
No self-discipline?
> and I know that if I were smoking > pot, it would just put me in a position that would greatly enhance the > probablilty that I may just think a drink is a good idea.
No "it" wouldn't put you in a position. Only *you* put you in a position.
"*Smoke pot* must lead to *drink alcohol*."? Not if you don't define it as such to yourself. What need one thing have to do with another?
> So I don't want to even tempt fate.
I wouldn't ever ask anyone to, and I, too, use the "tempting fate" feeling as a guideline in choosing behavior.
> Besides, I made a promise to God a long time ago about my > drug use....and I keep my promises because He kept His.
> It is looked down on simple because so many people go out.
Weak character. I've met 'em too. They didn't smoke pot to get high, they smoked pot to get fucked up. The ones who didn't "go out", I'd bet they smoked pot to get high.
> We call it > "Marajuana Maintenance" around here too. Just some solid experience talking. > But I suggest you try it out. But if you can't seem to get more than a > couple of months, you just may want to listen for a while.....
> HEY Kimba! Stop hogging the pita chips! Anyone for more Iced Tea????
crider wrote: > All I know is I love smoking pot and it makes me really thirsty and nothing > quenches my thirst like a nice cool case of beer. So I've had to avoid both > for the last 9 years. Given the choice I would probably get stoned first so > obviously I'm a cross addicted alcoholic.
But marijuana is not an addictive substance, so how can you say "cross addicted"? Perhaps you mean "cross obsessed". Ya can't be addicted to MJ.
> I think you should take inventory > of yourself and follow your heart. By the way I've never missed work or > almost lost my family due to my cigarette addiction
Due to your apparent ability to smoke in moderation.
> and I don't hide > Starbucks where my wife can't find it.
Lech K. Lesiak wrote: > On Sat, 29 May 1999, crider wrote:
> > All I know is I love smoking pot and it makes me really thirsty and nothing > > quenches my thirst like a nice cool case of beer. So I've had to avoid both
> In my experience, booze and MJ were a bad mix. Maybe a glass of wine > sipped slowly. A case of beer? That would have been a waste of good MJ > in my case.
My friend who smokes pot feels the same way. But since he's an alcoholic like me, he foregoes the alcohol. Can't even actually muster up a desire for its effects. He has a good, clear memory of his last withdrawal/detox experience. Through Grace he received the humbling he needed and wanted and had prayed for, painful though it was (the letting go stuff), and now he's One Happy Puppy. The Promises are blossoming in his life, spontaneously.
|
