>This got me to thinking, Lech. Maybe it's a guy thing, but what's the draw for >wanting a hooker? Isn't there enough for free out there? Do only the ugly guys >do it? (I think I can understand celebs maybe wanting "no strings" and >anonymity and paying big bucks for it.)
I have enjoyed the "no strings" aspect myself, but am not a celebrity (although some in this ng used to think I was a famous football player). I don't THINK I'm particularly ugly, but I know I'm no "chick magnet". I'm just an average guy. I imbibed in my younger years, in a country where it was legal, and never regretted it.
I'm not honestly sure if I had some self-esteem problems, or just wanted unfettered sex, or both. I know I didn't want a relationship at that age, and thought the idea of sex for sale was a darned good one (for me, the consumer, at least).
I guess the draw was simply that it was just sex - not emotion. That's also the drawBACK. Oh, and another draw was that it was easy and instant gratification ..... a perfect mix for a lazy SOB like me. Dating and other forms of sexual pursuit involve some amount of personal effort - buying sex does not.
>I guess I just can't imagine paying for it from a "questionable" stranger. I >mean, I can take someone out to dinner, have a nice evening, and *that*'s >paying for it too I suppose...
Every prostitute I ever had sex with used a condom. In Germany, I was told that they were also regularly inspected for healthiness (although I never asked for a certificate or anything).
On the other hand, some of the sex I enjoyed for free was with strangers I met in bars who were definately "questionable". The only thing I liked better about one-night stands than about hookers was that the sex of a one-night stand usually lasted longer. Hookers tend to get you in and out pretty quickly, in my experience.
>Maybe I'm guilty of stereotyping, but most of the former prostitutes I've known >were addicted to booze/drugs and that's how they supported their >addictions...hmmm...maybe I could be a high-priced call girl like Sigourney >Weaver in "Half Moon Street"...yeah, me and my bodacious buns...bwahahahaha!
You're probably a little bit guilty of stereotyping, given the limited sampling you've been exposed to. If you're meeting former prostitutes in recovery, chances are you're only meeting the ones who also have addiction problems. Granted, they may be the majority, but I'm sure there's at least one or two happy and well adjusted hookers out there.
I have no experience with high-priced call girls, but that's only because I'm poor. However, what you describe is more typical of the "freebies" I've had than of the prostitutes. That's assuming you'd consider it a "freebie" if they do it for buying them a few beers.
>I dunno Lech, did you ever <ahem> get win the hooker raffle? Can someone >enlighten me maybe even from personal experience about this? Any women out >there ever paid for a male prostitute?
I don't think I'd participate in a hooker raffle, myself. Not sure why. Morally, I'm not opposed to casual or purchased sex....I guess I'm just not attracted to it (or the risks) anymore.
>I can tell you why it's the "oldest profession" and when Dana returns to the >ng, I'm sure he can provide even more insight, but the history of prostitution >is an interesting one... >Julie >...the kingdom of heaven is within...
I can't speak for anyone else, but that's my personal experience with prostitution. I'm very certain that the clientel is NOT limited to guys who can't get it anywhere else. For me, it was usually laziness and the CERTAINTY that I'd get laid if I bought it outright.
I have no idea what would draw a woman to rent a male prostitute. In my limited experience, a decent looking woman can more easily find a willing-to-be-casual male partner than a decent looking man can find a willing-to-be-casual female.
Hope this gives you some insight.
Being ordinary and nothing special is a full-time job. mcmah...@flash.net (Jim McMahon in real life)
Thanks, Jim, yes actually it does. I've never heard anyone discuss the "purchaser"'s experience with paying for sex, and that is largely due to living here in the US where it is illegal, and yes, from former "prostitutes". And I've certainly heard both men and women discuss "being bought" by others sexually for drugs and/or booze or a place to crash and get food. So I found the "hooker raffle" somehow ironic, given the large numbers I've met in recovery rooms who were prostitutes outright or were by default to support their addicitons. Seemed like it supported the very thing a lot of people had been "sold" into by addiction. In my mind I pictured the "John" leaving an AA/NA pamphlet after he'd done his business...
Here in the US as I'm sure you know, sex for sale is considered pretty scuzzy by most people. And not regulated by the Health Commissions as it is in Europe. So the very illicitness here makes it seem pretty seedy. From my limited, relatively untraveled view from here, it seems that most of Europe is ahead of the game about sex in general, but that could be another misconception on my part. They could be just as screwed up about sex interpersonally (relationships, marriage) but have a decent and relatively safe sex business.
I'd like to do some traveling overseas b/c I do feel pretty myopic about how the rest of the world operates about most things. USers tend to get to thinking that their way is the best and only way... "What does he know of England who knows only England?"
>I have no idea what would draw a woman to rent a male prostitute. In >my limited experience, a decent looking woman can more easily find a >willing-to-be-casual male partner than a decent looking man can find a >willing-to-be-casual female.
"Women aare not seduced; men are chosen." D.H.Lawrence Regards Dick
> i am trying to find info on how to stop drinking for my boyfriend...... >.......................................................................... .
..............i do not
> want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
????? What does HE want??? (Or doesn't that matter to you???)
-- Tom Marlowe - a.k.a. "cadman" (Defender of the Faith/scum/dishonest sleazebag) ___________(Lose ALL DOUBT to reply....)_____________________________ ICQ #9532968
I just went back and scanned your posts...no wonder your boyfriend drinks! What a pain in the ass you must be!
How about what HE wants????? He'll stop drinking when he is through....you and your opinions notwithstanding. His drinking has nothing to do with you actually, and neither will his sobriety. The day you understand that is the day you will stop making these ridiculous venomous posts. Are YOU the one with the AA resentment? I say that because you obviously don't know anything about alcoholism at all, and only seem to be filled with criticism.
Yes I do know a way out of all of this. It is very very simple:
Don't fucking drink!
Best of luck
-- Mark H. aka Skyjumper ------------------------ Skydiving or *jumping out of perfectly good airplanes* may be hazardous. (excerpt from parachuting manual) see to sea to reply
valerie landis <flrde...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> i am trying to find info on how to stop drinking for my boyfriend. it > does not seem like this "aa" is anything but a clickish half ass > religion. i went to an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than > the ng, what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers > have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no > wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone > knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not > want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
> I just went back and scanned your posts...no wonder your boyfriend drinks! > What a pain in the ass you must be!
Tee hee! My buddy. Always the diplomat.
> How about what HE wants????? He'll stop drinking when he is through....you > and your opinions notwithstanding. His drinking has nothing to do with you > actually, and neither will his sobriety.
Have to disagree with you here, Mark. A MAJOR factor during my first, pitiful attempts to stop drinking was the concern Debbie expressed on a daily basis. I sure as hell didn't want to quit, that came later. You know, you go along, thinking you're pretty cool, fooling everybody. Then one by one people start raggin' your ass about the drinking. If the guy doesn't have a problem, then I'll agree with your statement. If he does, then Valerie is his early warning defense system, so to speak.
Now I'm trying to quit the cigs. Ms. Healthy has been bitchin' about that for a long time. To her credit, she laid off me for the first few years of sobriety. The major cackling stated around year three. Hey, we got hitched that year! Arrg.
> Yes I do know a way out of all of this. It is very very simple:
> Don't fucking drink!
Smoooooth as silk. <g>
Enjoy the jump tomorrow, big guy.
Ed
> Best of luck
> -- > Mark H. aka > Skyjumper > ------------------------ > Skydiving or *jumping out of perfectly good airplanes* > may be hazardous. (excerpt from parachuting manual) > see to sea to reply
Every time I see you falling, I get down on my knees and pray.... I'm waiting for that final moment, when you can see the words that I can see....
I know, cranky again :-) I had to work this weekend on another software update at work....the weather was lousy so I couldn't skydive.....so I guess I'm just restless, irritable and discontent :-) I guess that job at the State Department is out, huh?
Anywho.....see? You just said it below. If you were REALLY concerned with what your wife thought, when she first started taking to you about your drinking you would have said "You're right honey, I'll stop" and you would have. This is if you weren't an alcoholic. How long has she been chiding you about your smoking? Did you quit right when you knew it bothered her?
You quit drinking when you were ready, and now you are quitting smoking when you are ready. Having someone bitching at you is just a reminder, not a reason. Having other drunks tell you your drinking is out of control (as in another post) is also just a reminder. It helps, but it is not a reason. Hence the pitiful attempts. I did the same thing.
Personally I had to drink all that I had to. Until I KNEW it was over.....Ed while I was drunk I remember I used to think to myself "Do you feel better you asshole? Does this take anything away? Why do you do this?" and it didn't matter. It didn't matter that my mum would stop by and say "Have you been drinking?" or that friends would say "Are you alright?" or "Don't you think you should dry out for a while?" or the squeaks with the cops or cracking up the car or just people ignoring me completely. I tried to stop a lot. I prayed a lot. Didn't really matter.
That's all I tried to say. An alcoholic knows he needs to quit for his/her spouse, job, kids, etc but usually can't. Can't until he/she is done. Doesn't make sense to non-alcoholics though who see AA as a cult, or not needed because "you can just quit!" (as one 'friend' said to me).
heehee.....and now I look at drunks and say "Don't fucking drink you asshole." Could only make sense to a drunk!
By the way...I want to see you smoke-free soon, my friend! And don't keep eating those cookies on the breaks at meetings instead of smoking! Jeez! or you'll end up in OA ;-)
-- Mark H. aka Skyjumper ------------------------ Skydiving or *jumping out of perfectly good airplanes* may be hazardous. (excerpt from parachuting manual) see to sea to reply
> > I just went back and scanned your posts...no wonder your boyfriend drinks! > > What a pain in the ass you must be!
> Tee hee! My buddy. Always the diplomat.
> > How about what HE wants????? He'll stop drinking when he is through....you > > and your opinions notwithstanding. His drinking has nothing to do with you > > actually, and neither will his sobriety.
> Have to disagree with you here, Mark. A MAJOR factor during > my first, pitiful attempts to stop drinking was the concern Debbie > expressed on a daily basis. I sure as hell didn't want to quit, that > came later. You know, you go along, thinking you're pretty cool, > fooling everybody. Then one by one people start raggin' your > ass about the drinking. If the guy doesn't have a problem, then > I'll agree with your statement. If he does, then Valerie is his > early warning defense system, so to speak.
> Now I'm trying to quit the cigs. Ms. Healthy has been bitchin' > about that for a long time. To her credit, she laid off me for > the first few years of sobriety. The major cackling stated around > year three. Hey, we got hitched that year! Arrg.
> > Yes I do know a way out of all of this. It is very very simple:
> > Don't fucking drink!
> Smoooooth as silk. <g>
> Enjoy the jump tomorrow, big guy.
> Ed
> > Best of luck
> > -- > > Mark H. aka > > Skyjumper > > ------------------------ > > Skydiving or *jumping out of perfectly good airplanes* > > may be hazardous. (excerpt from parachuting manual) > > see to sea to reply
> Every time I see you falling, I get down on my knees and pray.... > I'm waiting for that final moment, when you can see the words > that I can see....
> Anywho.....see? You just said it below. If you were REALLY concerned with > what your wife thought, when she first started taking to you about your > drinking you would have said "You're right honey, I'll stop" and you would > have. This is if you weren't an alcoholic. How long has she been chiding you > about your smoking? Did you quit right when you knew it bothered her?
I *did* say "you're right honey, I'll stop." And I tried. I tried for several years, picking up a month here, three months there. It took me about four years of "practice" before I got on a roll. If I hadn't cared enough about the relationship to start the practice runs at sobriety, I'd still be drunk today. You see, I loathed myself. Really didn't think life was worth living. But when Ms. Healthy said "any more of this shit and I'm outta here" it was like a slap in the face with a dirty bar towel. I was more afraid of losing her than losing the booze. Co-dependency? I'll take it anytime.
> You quit drinking when you were ready, and now you are quitting smoking when > you are ready.
That's hard to say. I haven't quit *yet*, and neither have you. We are simply on a long "roll" which will hopefully last a life time.<g> If we stay sober for the rest of our lives, I suppose we win the not drinking game....hee-haw.
> Having someone bitching at you is just a reminder, not a > reason. Having other drunks tell you your drinking is out of control (as in > another post) is also just a reminder. It helps, but it is not a reason. > Hence the pitiful attempts. I did the same thing.
See Mark? It was the *pitiful attempts* which eventually led us to where we are now. Gary likes the idea of "repetition" as a way of learning new patterns of behavior. I call it practice--or a series of pitiful attempts gone good.<G> Hell, if you throw enough rocks at the ocean...
> Personally I had to drink all that I had to. Until I KNEW it was over
I hear you and understand it works that way for a lot of people. I admire that. My drinking career ended with more of a whimper than a bang. A slow, "never give up the ship" process. Part of the process was being viewed as "less than" by others. I didn't like that.
> I tried to stop a > lot. I prayed a lot. Didn't really matter.
Then, but don't you agree that it helped to build *now*?
> That's all I tried to say. An alcoholic knows he needs to quit for his/her > spouse, job, kids, etc but usually can't. Can't until he/she is done. > Doesn't make sense to non-alcoholics though who see AA as a cult, or not > needed because "you can just quit!" (as one 'friend' said to me).
You know you can say "whatever" and it would be fine with me.<g> My point is, any stimuli (including nagging) which gives a practicing alcoholic a clue, or perhaps momentum into that "readiness" stage, is positive thing.
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