On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Stacie <stac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>And come to think of it, the elves rather strike me as lovely >psychopaths, kind of humans with all of the nicer bits of humanity >stripped away, which have been given a very large cache of powerful >weapons and an interest in us only as toys or pets.
Robert Carnegie wrote: > Ferd Burfle wrote: >> Robert Carnegie wrote: >>> Curiously, _Making Money_ at first read felt to me a little bit like >>> going through the motions of a familiar recipe, doing it by the >>> numbers, but upon re-reading I find sparkling originality. Whatever >>> is going on there? Was I in a mood the first time around? I don't >>> recall being so! >> With humans, there is always the possibility of improvement. Perhaps >> reading the book the first time invisibly improved you so that you >> were able to get the full benefit of the second reading. If you have >> doubts about this, you might read, "How to Reason Like a Jesuit," by >> Bishop Slapp.
> But I'm sure I couldn't possibly be improved.
> They've tried.
But did they force you to read Echart Tolle books?
SteveD wrote: > On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Stacie <stac...@gmail.com> > wrote:
>> And come to think of it, the elves rather strike me as lovely >> psychopaths, kind of humans with all of the nicer bits of humanity >> stripped away, which have been given a very large cache of powerful >> weapons and an interest in us only as toys or pets.
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:36:01 +0000, an orbital mind-control laser caused "ppint. at pplay" <"v$af$ppint"@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> to write:
>- hi; jester thoughtfully stilettoed in afp: >>Chris Zakes <donti...@gmail.com> wrote: >><chop> >[re the Society for Creative Anachronism] >>>We recreate many aspects of the European Middle Ages and > >>Renaissance (generally avoiding things like the Black > >>Plague
> - [a]
> >> and religious wars)
>>and 100% historical accuracy :-)
> - does it take much effort in diligence, to avoid this?
<shrug> The SCA *aims* toward historical accuracy, but we make no pretense of achieving it 100%. Unlike some of the more narrowly-focused historical groups (such as the American Civil War re-enactors) we don't insist on completely accurate kit before one can come out and play with us. It's more of a big tent approach, with the only requirement being "an attempt at pre-seventeenth century clothing."
-Chris Zakes Texas
As for myself, I am simply Hop-Frog, the jester--and *this* is my last jest.
> SteveD wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Stacie <stac...@gmail.com> > > wrote:
> >> And come to think of it, the elves rather strike me as lovely > >> psychopaths, kind of humans with all of the nicer bits of humanity > >> stripped away, which have been given a very large cache of powerful > >> weapons and an interest in us only as toys or pets.
>I just finished UA and thought it was well up to SirPt's usual > standard: highly re-readable.
> But he brought in so many earlier characters--only the witches > are absent, really--that it made me nervous lest it's a signal > that he plans to quit writing, or quit writing about the DW. > Admittedly many of chars brought back are in bit parts and in the > case of Oats offscreen altogether. But it's still worrying.
> Is SirPt already working on another, does anyone know? Am I > being silly for worrying? Anyone have any Views?
In alt.fan.pratchett Raymond Daley <raymond.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Ferd Burfle" <f...@moonwalking-on-water.com> wrote in message > news:hcMFm.44162$eF1.38758@newsfe24.iad... >> I like them all. I have always liked them all. Our Terry don't write no >> crap books. -Bird Ferfuffle
> Now I know your a liar and a troll. > Read Dark Side Of The Sun & Strata. > The Colour Of Magic is all that popular either. > "don't write no crap books". Awful double negative.
You write sentences like that and then complain about someone else's grammar?
In any case, I happen to love DSotS, Strata and TCoM. Great books. Less polished than his newer stuff, but full of great fantasy and SF references, and with some brilliant concepts. He's written books that are a lot worse than those three.
mcv. -- Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool. A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
In alt.fan.pratchett Robert Carnegie <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> Curiously, _Making Money_ at first read felt to me a little bit like > going through the motions of a familiar recipe, doing it by the > numbers, but upon re-reading I find sparkling originality. Whatever > is going on there? Was I in a mood the first time around? I don't > recall being so!
I'm currently reading it, but after a couple of dozen pages, my main thought was: wait, when was this written? Did Pterry predict the credit crisis?
mcv. -- Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool. A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
In alt.fan.pratchett Raymond Daley <raymond.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "this isn't up to your usual standard, perhaps > hold off on printing until it is?"
That's not what you said, though. You said he should stop writing altogether. If you don't like his books anymore, a much better solution would be for you to stop reading them.
You say Pterry's books went downhill after MR. I think MR was one of his weaker books, but he followed it up with some of his best books.
Compare Pterry with other writers. The vast majority of them (even a lot of highly respected literary writers) only write a single masterpiece, and keep writing mediocre crap for the rest of their lives. Pterry wrote about 25 masterpieces. Can't you forgive the occasional lesser book? Even if UA is really his weakest book so far (I wouldn't know), it's quite possible his next book will be another masterpiece.
mcv. -- Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool. A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
Bob Larter wrote: > Anery wrote: > > BTW, I felt genuinely sorry for Shelob. Probably I won't find too much > > understanding here.
> I always wondered what Shelob ate between the (presumably) rare event of > stray orcs or hobbits wandering into her lair.
RW spiders are able to fast for a long time. A friend of mine, who was a great admirer of spiders for that ability, liked to misquote from John Crompton's excellent book "The Life of the Spider": "The average lifespan of spiders is one and half a year and they are able to fast for two years". (Actually, both statements could be found in the book, just in different places and for different species.)
Large creatures can generally cope without food considerably longer than small ones of related species.
These facts put together imply that Shelob might be a suitable candidate for a world champion in fasting. Still, presumably she was really hungry when the two hobbits entered her lair.
> In alt.fan.pratchett Robert Carnegie <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> > Curiously, _Making Money_ at first read felt to me a little bit like > > going through the motions of a familiar recipe, doing it by the > > numbers, but upon re-reading I find sparkling originality. Whatever > > is going on there? Was I in a mood the first time around? I don't > > recall being so!
> I'm currently reading it, but after a couple of dozen pages, my main > thought was: wait, when was this written? Did Pterry predict the credit > crisis?
Apparently 2007, and maybe - ask his accountant. I think we were already in trouble then, though. Re U.A., did Pterry predict a major soccer tournament next year? ;-)
Wikipedia for MM apparently has a link to a good interview with Pterry. There's a good quote there, anyway.
But mainly MM is about older themes in economics, including real-world reform of banking for the nineteenth or early twentieth century - paper currency, no gold standard. (E.g., what if you have no gold?) Whereas the latest crisis is sort of about all the developments of banking since those days dying and shrivelling and dropping off. Leaving us roughly where we were a hundred years ago - including at war, but not quite so badly this time.
>ppint. at pplay <"v$af$ppint"@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>- somefan on rasff may be in contact with her, or someone >>on one of the sewing froups she frequented...
>I forwarded your message to her.
- two-way communication with a tamar interested in the free &/or cheap possibilities of access to use- net (text) groups, currently unable to access her usual post-box which has over-flowed with spam, has found trn (?) unable to cope with too great a load of news articles, and unable to configure thunder- bird to do aught useful, and is missing discussions on abp, rasfw [? and also on afp, rasff ?] terribly.
- air(&u), her late partner used to handle all things computer-geek-ish, and when she tried using google's usenet interface, she found it totally and clumsily incompatible with tamar :-(( offers of help from those skilled with distance-helldesking e.g. thunderbird or purging indigestible amounts from trn to dicconf at the domain, yahoo.com]
[* - follow-up again set to afp; if varying this, please drop any group to which the subject of your contribution is likely to be inappropriate. thanks.]
- many thanks, keith;
- love, ppint. [please drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email me] -- "There's something wrong with the world. I'm becoming a hazy memory." - C.Speed, the ultimate velocipractor, on alt.sex.reptiles 11/2/98 --------- ---------- ----------- ------------ "Earth occupies about one-half a degree in two dimensions." - trde on rec.arts.sf.fandom, 10/5/2005 (5/10/2005 for merkins)
And further cross-posted to the Shed as she used to wander in there for the occasional PP & BA.
Anthony
In message <hCfIm.24114$Sn4.22...@newsfe15.ams2> "ppint. at pplay" <"v$af$ppint"@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> [n.b. cross-posted, with followup set*] > > - hi; Keith F. Lynch wrote: > >ppint. at pplay <"v$af$ppint"@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> > >>- somefan on rasff may be in contact with her, or someone > >>on one of the sewing froups she frequented... > > > >I forwarded your message to her. > > - two-way communication with a tamar interested in > the free &/or cheap possibilities of access to use- > net (text) groups, currently unable to access her > usual post-box which has over-flowed with spam, has > found trn (?) unable to cope with too great a load > of news articles, and unable to configure thunder- > bird to do aught useful, and is missing discussions > on abp, rasfw [? and also on afp, rasff ?] terribly. > > - air(&u), her late partner used to handle all things > computer-geek-ish, and when she tried using google's > usenet interface, she found it totally and clumsily > incompatible with tamar :-(( offers of help from those > skilled with distance-helldesking e.g. thunderbird or > purging indigestible amounts from trn to dicconf at > the domain, yahoo.com] > > [* - follow-up again set to afp; if varying this, > please drop any group to which the subject of your > contribution is likely to be inappropriate. thanks.] > > - many thanks, keith; > > - love, ppint. > [please drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email me]
> About a whole evil race or species, which is a concept that other > books sometimes wrestle with more, are there nice wasps?
Yes. there are many hundreds of species of wasps, many of them tiny and hence unworrying - to us, at least. And there are hundreds of species of figs, each of which has its own species of was which it needs to pollinate it. So without wasps, we would not have figs, of which I am quite fond.
A.Reader <anonymou...@example.com> wrote: > On 4 Nov 2009 06:29:33 GMT, > Thomas Zahr <use...@zahr-mail.de> wrote:
> >A.Reader <anonymou...@example.com> wrote: > >> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 15:39:49 -0600, > >> "Aggie Angst" <aggiean...@myinvalidway.com> wrote:
> >> >No. Cut that out.
> >> A bit behind the fair, are we?
> >> Du sollst Elektrikerin werden - Du hast so lang eine Leitung :-)
> >You need to work on your German: Du hast so eine lange Leitung :-)
> Naja. :-)
> I'm certain my German is hopeless, grammatically. That's the > trouble with learning in media res as an adult rather than in the > classroom as a kid.
> So thanks for the correction. I must have been the butt of that > joke a hundred times, but evidently I stored the translation > rather than the original. Perhaps because I was always on the > receiving end :-)
Whereabouts in de or at have you been, when you gleamed you German? -- Cheers,
Thomas Zahr wrote: > A.Reader <anonymou...@example.com> wrote: >> On 4 Nov 2009 06:29:33 GMT, >> Thomas Zahr <use...@zahr-mail.de> wrote:
>> >A.Reader <anonymou...@example.com> wrote: >> >> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 15:39:49 -0600, >> >> "Aggie Angst" <aggiean...@myinvalidway.com> wrote:
>> >> >No. Cut that out.
>> >> A bit behind the fair, are we?
>> >> Du sollst Elektrikerin werden - Du hast so lang eine Leitung :-)
>> >You need to work on your German: Du hast so eine lange Leitung :-)
>> Naja. :-)
>> I'm certain my German is hopeless, grammatically. That's the >> trouble with learning in media res as an adult rather than in the >> classroom as a kid.
>> So thanks for the correction. I must have been the butt of that >> joke a hundred times, but evidently I stored the translation >> rather than the original. Perhaps because I was always on the >> receiving end :-)
> Whereabouts in de or at have you been, when you gleamed you German?
> "A.Reader" wrote >>I just finished UA and thought it was well up to SirPt's usual >> standard: highly re-readable. But he brought in so many >> earlier characters--only the witches are absent, really--that >> it made me nervous lest it's a signal that he plans to quit >> writing, or <snip> > I'm not going to mince my words in this post and might say > some or a lot of things most of you won't like or agree with
<snip a whole pile of things I don't like or agree with>
I must say that the two of you really managed to put the wind up me. Especially when this thread turned into one of those thread-monsters with t'ousands and t'ousands of posts every day. I was imagining all of afp wrestling mightily with the question of declining quality, with the brutal honesty camp wrangling with the sentimental twaddle camp, with overstated cases and wrong-headedness all round.
Of course ... I forgot the book was about football.
So, once I had finished the book and so could read the thread, it meant that 90% of the thread was about football rules, styles, offshoots, corruptions and abominations. And I did learn something interesting about versions of games with balls that are played from village to village - amazing practice and not rare. Huh.
I had also forgotten that you, Raymond, haven't liked much of what Pratchett has done for a long time, so that your lack of approbation did not indicate anything except that the trend that you do not like has continued - which is a matter of personal preference, not authorial quality, so that's okay.
The novel might still have been a swan song, though, so that was a worry. The whole issue of "so many early characters" had me worried - but I don't see it myself. Nearly everybody who was there was there because they are in the city, and, especially in the City Watch, we're going to trip over somebody we've met before.
So, no, I don't hear the melodious notes of the Norwegian Blue's larger avian sibling's final ode.
It is a great book, and a lot of fun, and has so many potential story leads in it that if Pratchett did nothing else but follow up on those alone, he would have more than enough material to keep us in books until every last one of us reading afp is dead, dead, very dead.
I, for one, want to know more about the world of Madame and Pepe. :)
Great book. I barely gave my SOGP enough time to finish the book before I started it again. Yay PTerry, and all that.
On 09 Nov 2009, "April Goodwin-Smith" <agoodwinsm...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> The novel might still have been a swan song, though, so that > was a worry. The whole issue of "so many early characters" > had me worried - but I don't see it myself. Nearly everybody > who was there was there because they are in the city, and, > especially in the City Watch, we're going to trip over somebody > we've met before.
Yep. The original poster says "Only the witches are absent, really", but I've made a list of others:
Moist von Lipwig - If Pterry was really compiling a greatest hits collection, he'd be easy enough to fit in; the Mint is asked to make medals for the winning players, maybe. Susan Sto Helit, or any other "Death series" character except the anthropomorphic personification himself (who appears in *every* book except WFM, so his appearance here is hardly significant). Anyone from the standalone novels "Pyramids" and "Small Gods".
It's a wizards/Rincewind series novel set in Ankh-Morpork. And it's well established that *all* novels set in Ankh-Morpork will feature an appearance by the Watch, and probably someone from the Times. And Mossy Lawn and Igor have to appear as soon as someone gets injured.
Margolotta and Oats, meanwhile, are required for Mr Nutt's story; yes, Pterry could have invented an Uberwaldean noble with a slightly twisted desire to do the right thing, and an idealistic pastor in that area, but why, when they both already exist?
So yeah, it's a book that features a lot of pre-existing characters. But not really any more pre-existing characters than, say, Making Money.
-- Dave "All those with psychokinesis, raise my hand." The Room With No Doors, Kate Orman
On Nov 9, 1:44 pm, Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidchened...@aol.com> wrote:
> On 09 Nov 2009, "April Goodwin-Smith" <agoodwinsm...@shaw.ca> wrote: > > The novel might still have been a swan song, though, so that > > was a worry. The whole issue of "so many early characters" > > had me worried - but I don't see it myself. > Yep. The original poster says "Only the witches are absent, really", but > I've made a list of others:
> Moist von Lipwig - If Pterry was really compiling a greatest hits > collection, he'd be easy enough to fit in; the Mint is asked to make > medals for the winning players, maybe. > Susan Sto Helit, or any other "Death series" character except the > anthropomorphic personification himself (who appears in *every* book > except WFM, so his appearance here is hardly significant). > Anyone from the standalone novels "Pyramids" and "Small Gods".
> On Nov 9, 1:44 pm, Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidchened...@aol.com> > wrote: >> On 09 Nov 2009, "April Goodwin-Smith" <agoodwinsm...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> > The novel might still have been a swan song, though, so that >> > was a worry. The whole issue of "so many early characters" >> > had me worried - but I don't see it myself.
>> Yep. The original poster says "Only the witches are absent, really", >> but I've made a list of others:
>> Moist von Lipwig - If Pterry was really compiling a greatest hits >> collection, he'd be easy enough to fit in; the Mint is asked to make >> medals for the winning players, maybe. >> Susan Sto Helit, or any other "Death series" character except the >> anthropomorphic personification himself (who appears in *every* book >> except WFM, so his appearance here is hardly significant). >> Anyone from the standalone novels "Pyramids" and "Small Gods".
> And Tiffany Aching. Thank goodness.
Well, I was counting the Tiffany books as witch books.
I should have included Amazing Maurice in my list of standalones, though.
-- Dave "All those with psychokinesis, raise my hand." The Room With No Doors, Kate Orman
Alec Cawley <a...@spamspam.co.uk> wrote: > Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > About a whole evil race or species, which is a concept that other > > books sometimes wrestle with more, are there nice wasps?
> Yes. there are many hundreds of species of wasps, many of them tiny and > hence unworrying - to us, at least. And there are hundreds of species of > figs, each of which has its own species of was which it needs to > pollinate it. So without wasps, we would not have figs, of which I am > quite fond.
Weeelll... yes, linguistically, you're correct. But fig wasps are no more closely related to what most people think of when you say "wasp" than they are to bees.
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