I am a consultant in the field of construction for the disabled, the elderly, the injured. May I ask a favor?
I would appreciate it if anyone who considers themselves part of one or more of the above groups to reply, either personally or to the group, with the issues that affect you and your life. I specialize in consulting in home modification issues, hotel/motel accessibility, retail store layout for accessibility, restaurants, state of the art assistive technologies, etc. Tell me your problems and I can push agendas. If you have any friends with problems, please let them know, too.
>I am a consultant in the field of construction for the disabled, the >elderly, the injured. May I ask a favor?
> I would appreciate it if anyone who considers themselves part of one or > more of the above groups to reply, either personally or to the group, with > the issues that affect you and your life. I specialize in consulting in > home modification issues, hotel/motel accessibility, retail store layout > for accessibility, restaurants, state of the art assistive technologies, > etc. Tell me your problems and I can push agendas. If you have any friends > with problems, please let them know, too.
> Write me privately at adaconsult...@sbeglobal.net
> Thanks > Tim Conde
The big thing for any home or vehicle modifications is COST.
Cheryl, do you feel that the cost is excessive compared to a non-disabled persons home remodeling? In other words, are you saying that your home (or vehicle) changes cost more just because yiou are disabled? Or is the work of a highly complex nature that just costs more? Not all home modifications are big bucks. Adding grab bars, changing light switches to large paddles, widening some doors and adding a bidet toilet seat can make a huge difference. There are always expensive ways to do things, but with some imagination and a real emphasis on how you use your home , you can make cheap changes that will make a world of difference.
Tim
"Cheryl" <no_email_wan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> "Tim" <tcco...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > news:9hLSl.34011$ZP4.16064@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... >>I am a consultant in the field of construction for the disabled, the >>elderly, the injured. May I ask a favor?
>> I would appreciate it if anyone who considers themselves part of one or >> more of the above groups to reply, either personally or to the group, >> with the issues that affect you and your life. I specialize in consulting >> in home modification issues, hotel/motel accessibility, retail store >> layout for accessibility, restaurants, state of the art assistive >> technologies, etc. Tell me your problems and I can push agendas. If you >> have any friends with problems, please let them know, too.
>> Write me privately at adaconsult...@sbeglobal.net
>> Thanks >> Tim Conde
> The big thing for any home or vehicle modifications is COST.
> Cheryl, do you feel that the cost is excessive compared to a non-disabled > persons home remodeling? In other words, are you saying that your home (or > vehicle) changes cost more just because yiou are disabled? Or is the work > of > a highly complex nature that just costs more? Not all home modifications > are > big bucks. Adding grab bars, changing light switches to large paddles, > widening some doors and adding a bidet toilet seat can make a huge > difference. There are always expensive ways to do things, but with some > imagination and a real emphasis on how you use your home , you can make > cheap changes that will make a world of difference.
> Tim
It ABSOLUTELY costs more than normal home repairs. I know. I have now owned 4 homes and have rehabed 3 of the 4. It wasn't until the 4th home I became unable to handle any sort of rehab other than perhaps putting up grab rails, dropping a plastic shower seat into the tub, etc. And, BTW, hand rails truly capable of supporting a person's weight aren't cheap. Widening doorways isn't costly? You must live in a different world than I do. I would need to widen a minimum of 4 doorways and enlarge my bathroom to the tune of 15-20K unless you know of some handymen/women who are willing to come over and do all of this work for free. I *might* be able to get away without widening my bathroom, although that's highly doubtful if I want to be truly independent. Realistically my bathroom would require 2 closet knockouts or perhaps turning one bedroom into part bathroom, part laundry room. Then I would need a roll-in or transfer shower. Right now, what I have, which really isn't gong to work for much longer, is a transport chair pulled around the home via a rope just so it can fit through doorways, and even that won't fit through my bathroom doorway, so I have to pull my transport chair to the bathroom doorway, pull a walker out of the linen closet, and drag myself to use the bathroom facilities.
Now info about little modifications is helpful. Many/most disabled people have probably already come up with their own ideas--necessity being the mother of invention--but there's always hope for newer, inexpensive, realistic work arounds. Unfortunately, though, once you start talking about actually widening doorways, knocking out walls, replacing toilets/showers/sinks, etc. Yeah, it's too costly. A plain old toilet is a LOT cheaper than a bidet. A plain old tub is a LOT cheaper than setting up a roll in shower or a shower with a transfer/drop seat. Plus, you have to realize what may sound like a small sum probably doesn't to an audience of people whose incomes are now significantly less and already overburdened by medical costs and all of the so-called inexpensive modifications to their lives.
All you need to do is take a house built in the 50s and tell a contractor what you need in order for someone in a wheelchair to be truly independent--larger shower, widened doorways, laundry upstairs, etc. See what it costs and then you'll know. Then, ask someone who builds new homes to provide you with the same items. My experience was the cost was substantially cheaper to make the changes to a new home rather than remodel an older home. Of course, the cost of a new home is too much any disabled people I know.
I won't go into much discussion about the cost of vehicle modification. All you need to do is talk to any mobility dealer to get an idea about the exhorbiant costs of vehicle modification. I'm not saying the dealers are sticking it to disabled people, although, who knows, maybe they are. I'm just saying the cost to gain true vehicle independence is astronomical. What I will say is I paid nearly 3K for a clip on hoist for my powerchair. And, even now, I cannot do this by myself. I am reliant on another person to take my chair to and from the back of the van to the passenger side of the car. Plus, I cannot afford something that would be truly beneficial to me, like a seat that lowers and lifts me into the van. As is, I have to us the grab bar to pull myself in, which harms my physical condition.
That's the trouble really. There are too many variables to discuss when talking about modifications. There are so many different disabilities, varying degrees of these disabilities, urban/rural settings, familial assistance, do-it-yourself assistance, financial abilities, etc. etc. etc. It's not something anyone can sum up in a neat little package.
>> "Tim" <tcco...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message >> news:9hLSl.34011$ZP4.16064@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>I am a consultant in the field of construction for the disabled, the >>>elderly, the injured. May I ask a favor?
>>> I would appreciate it if anyone who considers themselves part of one or >>> more of the above groups to reply, either personally or to the group, >>> with the issues that affect you and your life. I specialize in >>> consulting in home modification issues, hotel/motel accessibility, >>> retail store layout for accessibility, restaurants, state of the art >>> assistive technologies, etc. Tell me your problems and I can push >>> agendas. If you have any friends with problems, please let them know, >>> too.
>>> Write me privately at adaconsult...@sbeglobal.net
>>> Thanks >>> Tim Conde
>> The big thing for any home or vehicle modifications is COST.
> "Tim" <tcco...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > news:vAYSl.34048$ZP4.6192@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... >> Cheryl, do you feel that the cost is excessive compared to a non-disabled >> persons home remodeling? In other words, are you saying that your home >> (or >> vehicle) changes cost more just because yiou are disabled? Or is the work >> of >> a highly complex nature that just costs more? Not all home modifications >> are >> big bucks. Adding grab bars, changing light switches to large paddles, >> widening some doors and adding a bidet toilet seat can make a huge >> difference. There are always expensive ways to do things, but with some >> imagination and a real emphasis on how you use your home , you can make >> cheap changes that will make a world of difference.
>> Tim
> It ABSOLUTELY costs more than normal home repairs. I know. I have now > owned 4 homes and have rehabed 3 of the 4. It wasn't until the 4th home I > became unable to handle any sort of rehab other than perhaps putting up > grab rails, dropping a plastic shower seat into the tub, etc. And, BTW, > hand rails truly capable of supporting a person's weight aren't cheap.
I hope you are not saying that people charge you more because you are handicapped. If you are saying that the nature of the work is generally more costly than "normal home repairs", I'd agree. Grab bars are not that bad, $25 to $30 at Home Depot, and guaranteed. Grab Bars have to be able to support 250# minimum. That is the code. If you need more, they become expensive only since most people do not make them.
Widening doorways isn't costly? You must live in a different world than I do. I would need to
> widen a minimum of 4 doorways and enlarge my bathroom to the tune of > 15-20K unless you know of some handymen/women who are willing to come over > and do all of this work for free.
I guess it depends on what you mean by expensive. The materials are maybe $100 a door, that's a prehung door, shims and primed casing PLUS labor. "Enlarging a bathroom" can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. Simply moving walls to create more space isn't a big deal. If you are talking about removing a tub and shower and creating an accessible roll-in shower with all kinds of bells and whistles, yes, that can be costly.
> I *might* be able to get away without widening my bathroom, although > that's highly doubtful if I want to be truly independent. Realistically my > bathroom would require 2 closet knockouts or perhaps turning one bedroom > into part bathroom, part laundry room. Then I would need a roll-in or > transfer shower. Right now, what I have, which really isn't gong to work > for much longer, is a transport chair pulled around the home via a rope > just so it can fit through doorways, and even that won't fit through my > bathroom doorway, so I have to pull my transport chair to the bathroom > doorway, pull a walker out of the linen closet, and drag myself to use the > bathroom facilities.
The shame is that homes have NEVER been designed to accomodate accessible living. Universal design falls short since "one-size-fits-all" doesn't work for anything. Person A has needs that person B doesn't. But is does sound as though you need doors widened, or narrower assistive devices.
> Now info about little modifications is helpful. Many/most disabled people > have probably already come up with their own ideas--necessity being the > mother of invention--but there's always hope for newer, inexpensive, > realistic work arounds. Unfortunately, though, once you start talking > about actually widening doorways, knocking out walls, replacing > toilets/showers/sinks, etc. Yeah, it's too costly. A plain old toilet is a > LOT cheaper than a bidet.
A good option, which we have done a lot of is bidet toilet seats. They can be had pretty inexpensively and do a great job. They heat the seat, heat the water, warm air dry, etc. You hook them to the toilet supply line, plug it in and they heat the water, everything, They are great for males and females, and like I say, we've done a lot of them.
A plain old tub is a LOT cheaper than setting up
> a roll in shower or a shower with a transfer/drop seat.
No question that a roll in shower costs money. A transfer bench were you can slide from outside the tub into the tub is a good option with a suitable showerhead and grab bars.
> Plus, you have to > realize what may sound like a small sum probably doesn't to an audience of > people whose incomes are now significantly less and already overburdened > by medical costs and all of the so-called inexpensive modifications to > their lives.
There are sources of money that can address your needs and help. We have done a lot with the Independent Living Centers that deal with people with disabilities who want to remain as indenendent as possible. They get grants to make changes to bathrooms, widen doors, etc.
> All you need to do is take a house built in the 50s and tell a contractor > what you need in order for someone in a wheelchair to be truly > independent--larger shower, widened doorways, laundry upstairs, etc. See > what it costs and then you'll know. Then, ask someone who builds new homes > to provide you with the same items. My experience was the cost was > substantially cheaper to make the changes to a new home rather than > remodel an older home. Of course, the cost of a new home is too much any > disabled people I know.
Oh, agreed. As a contractor, designer, builder, I would love it if people came to me with a disabled-friendly house. One of our current project is that of rebuilding a 1950's house that the people want to keep all the design elements of the 1950's house but transform it into an accessible design. Yes, it does cost money to do it. Would it be cheaper to build new? I don't know. Here in Northern California, with all the fees we have to pay before we even break ground (park fees, road impact fees, school fees, plus engineering, soil testing, and on and on), we can have $60K in a house pretty easily before we turn the first shovel of dirt.
> I won't go into much discussion about the cost of vehicle modification. > All you need to do is talk to any mobility dealer to get an idea about the > exhorbiant costs of vehicle modification. I'm not saying the dealers are > sticking it to disabled people, although, who knows, maybe they are.
I can't speak for cars. I do know that the reason cars are cheap (relatively speaking) is that they are built on an assemble line, hundreds of cars a day. Anytime you take a car and rip the insides out and start doing unique modifications it becomes a custom car and the price goes up quick. Most custom cars I have seen that have been seriously modified for the disabled cost $100K or more.
> I'm just saying the cost to gain true vehicle independence is > astronomical. > What I will say is I paid nearly 3K for a clip on hoist for my powerchair. > And, even now, I cannot do this by myself. I am reliant on another person > to take my chair to and from the back of the van to the passenger side of > the car. Plus, I cannot afford something that would be truly beneficial to > me, like a seat that lowers and lifts me into the van. As is, I have to us > the grab bar to pull myself in, which harms my physical condition.
> That's the trouble really. There are too many variables to discuss when > talking about modifications. There are so many different disabilities, > varying degrees of these disabilities, urban/rural settings, familial > assistance, do-it-yourself assistance, financial abilities, etc. etc. etc. > It's not something anyone can sum up in a neat little package.
I will disagree here with you as little bit. Yes, there are a myriad of variables. No question, so does that mean you don't try? I have been doing this many years. I found that a great many of the construction tasks I was doing, I was doing every day. How many roll-in showers have I built? God only knows. How many doors widened? How many door knobs have I replaced with levers? And the list goes on and on. When I went out to do a thorough evaluation of what a house needed, I found myself saying the same things over and over. There are a lot of things that I do that are unique. Naturally. Like an overhead rail transport system through the house. Or a voice control system to control lights, change TV channels. change the thermostst settings, open the front door, or even control the water for a shower. Yes, I do that, too. And yes, it isn't cheap. But when that is your only option, you do what you have to do.
>>> "Tim" <tcco...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message >>> news:9hLSl.34011$ZP4.16064@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>I am a consultant in the field of construction for the disabled, the >>>>elderly, the injured. May I ask a favor?
>>>> I would appreciate it if anyone who considers themselves part of one or >>>> more of the above groups to reply, either personally or to the group, >>>> with the issues that affect you and your life. I specialize in >>>> consulting in home modification issues, hotel/motel accessibility, >>>> retail store layout for accessibility, restaurants, state of the art >>>> assistive technologies, etc. Tell me your problems and I can push >>>> agendas. If you have any friends with problems, please let them know, >>>> too.
>>>> Write me privately at adaconsult...@sbeglobal.net
>>>> Thanks >>>> Tim Conde
>>> The big thing for any home or vehicle modifications is COST.
>> "Tim" <tcco...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message >> news:vAYSl.34048$ZP4.6192@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com... >>> Cheryl, do you feel that the cost is excessive compared to a >>> non-disabled persons home remodeling? In other words, are you saying >>> that your home (or >>> vehicle) changes cost more just because yiou are disabled? Or is the >>> work of >>> a highly complex nature that just costs more? Not all home >>> modifications are >>> big bucks. Adding grab bars, changing light switches to large >>> paddles, widening some doors and adding a bidet toilet seat can make >>> a huge difference. There are always expensive ways to do things, but >>> with some imagination and a real emphasis on how you use your home , >>> you can make cheap changes that will make a world of difference.
>>> Tim
>> It ABSOLUTELY costs more than normal home repairs. I know. I have now >> owned 4 homes and have rehabed 3 of the 4. It wasn't until the 4th >> home I became unable to handle any sort of rehab other than perhaps >> putting up grab rails, dropping a plastic shower seat into the tub, >> etc. And, BTW, hand rails truly capable of supporting a person's >> weight aren't cheap.
> I hope you are not saying that people charge you more because you are > handicapped. If you are saying that the nature of the work is > generally more costly than "normal home repairs", I'd agree. Grab bars > are not that bad, $25 to $30 at Home Depot, and guaranteed. Grab Bars > have to be able to support 250# minimum. That is the code. If you need > more, they become expensive only since most people do not make them.
Grab bars may only be $25 to $30, but what about the installation cost? You can't just screw them to drywall. Depending on the house this could include cutting into the wall and fastening in supports for the grab bar, then patching the wall. In an extreme case, it could mean opening up an entire wall just to put in supports or bracing for the grab bars. Studs aren't often located where you need to put the grab bar (my experience says rarely) and stud spacing varies, especially in older homes. Ideally you have 16" or 24" on center studs, but that depends on the age of the house, how accurate the contractor was, fixtures, electrical, etc.
> Widening doorways isn't costly? You must live in a different world > than I do. I would need to >> widen a minimum of 4 doorways and enlarge my bathroom to the tune of >> 15-20K unless you know of some handymen/women who are willing to come >> over and do all of this work for free.
> I guess it depends on what you mean by expensive. The materials are > maybe $100 a door, that's a prehung door, shims and primed casing PLUS > labor. "Enlarging a bathroom" can mean a lot of things to a lot of > people. Simply moving walls to create more space isn't a big deal. If > you are talking about removing a tub and shower and creating an > accessible roll-in shower with all kinds of bells and whistles, yes, > that can be costly.
I think you live in an unreal world. $100 is door plus labor? Enlarging a door opening is door, casing, jambs, framing, possible wall repair, and could involve electrical work as well (think about how close to the door opening many light switches are). Typical door openings are 30", you need to widen to 36". An additional 6 inches is a lot when it comes to the wall framing. But wait, wall framing is typically 2" wider than the door, so the framed opening needs to be 38". That light switch next to the door is really in the way, isn't it?
And don't talk about secondary doors... 2'-4" is typical. That is a lot of remodel and expense to enlargen.
And moving walls isn't a big deal? Maybe to a contractor it isn't, but to the homeowner it is a lot of work, and is usually a fairly expensive task. It can be an enourmous undertaking. You can't just move a wall. There are ceilings and load bearing to consider. Plus plumbing and wiring. A simple remodel isn't cheap, moving walls can get really expensive really quickly. And that's without upgrading any fixtures.
Another consideration that is missed is the hallway width. You can widen a door opening, but can a person in a wheelchair actually turn into the doorway. My hallways are 3'-6" in width and in our house it is still difficult to turn. A typical hallway is 3'-0" in width and that is often stud to stud, leaving a clear wall to wall of 2'-11" and a wheel space (baseboards further encroach, typically 3/8 inch each side) of 2'-10 1/4". Older houses have even narrower hallways, especially at the baseboard where old boards can be up past 1/2" thick plus the shoe moulding of 1/2" to 3/4" on each side of the hall. Can the wheel chair wheels really navigate that tight of space? and then make a turn into a 3'- 0" opening... actually an open door (open at 90 degrees to the opening) tightens the opening down approximately 1 1/2" so a 3'-0" door is actually a 2'-10 1/2" opening.
>> Plus, you have to >> realize what may sound like a small sum probably doesn't to an >> audience of people whose incomes are now significantly less and >> already overburdened by medical costs and all of the so-called >> inexpensive modifications to their lives.
> There are sources of money that can address your needs and help. We > have done a lot with the Independent Living Centers that deal with > people with disabilities who want to remain as indenendent as > possible. They get grants to make changes to bathrooms, widen doors, > etc.
While there are sources... the waiting lists can be lengthy and a person who needs accomodations now isn't in a position to wait. Plus many programs are restrictive in the scope of what they will finance, or the resources of the applicant. These are not always an alternative and should not automatically be considered, which you seem to be doing.
>> All you need to do is take a house built in the 50s and tell a >> contractor what you need in order for someone in a wheelchair to be >> truly independent--larger shower, widened doorways, laundry upstairs, >> etc. See what it costs and then you'll know. Then, ask someone who >> builds new homes to provide you with the same items. My experience >> was the cost was substantially cheaper to make the changes to a new >> home rather than remodel an older home. Of course, the cost of a new >> home is too much any disabled people I know.
> Oh, agreed. As a contractor, designer, builder, I would love it if > people came to me with a disabled-friendly house. One of our current > project is that of rebuilding a 1950's house that the people want to > keep all the design elements of the 1950's house but transform it into > an accessible design. Yes, it does cost money to do it. Would it be > cheaper to build new? I don't know. Here in Northern California, with > all the fees we have to pay before we even break ground (park fees, > road impact fees, school fees, plus engineering, soil testing, and on > and on), we can have $60K in a house pretty easily before we turn the > first shovel of dirt.
I haven't been involved in building in North California, but I know that where I am it is often cheaper to build new than remodel. If the remodel is extensive. However, in some places due to zoning or other codes, remodelling may be the only option.
>> That's the trouble really. There are too many variables to discuss >> when talking about modifications. There are so many different >> disabilities, varying degrees of these disabilities, urban/rural >> settings, familial assistance, do-it-yourself assistance, financial >> abilities, etc. etc. etc. It's not something anyone can sum up in a >> neat little package.
> I will disagree here with you as little bit. Yes, there are a myriad > of variables. No question, so does that mean you don't try? I have > been doing this many years. I found that a great many of the > construction tasks I was doing, I was doing every day. How many > roll-in showers have I built? God only knows. How many doors widened? > How many door knobs have I replaced with levers? And the list goes on > and on. When I went out to do a thorough evaluation of what a house > needed, I found myself saying the same things over and over.
Because those are common items. Especially the door knobs to lever changes (although that can add up fast depending on the number of doors). But the rest of it, it is variable since not every house needs these basic or common changes, nor can they be done in every house. As long as the client has deep pockets, any remodel is possible, but from a cost perspective, there is little that can be done cheaply, and the cheapest fixes are going to be done with the cheapest materials. Quality costs, and proper design and remodel costs.
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