Is Oracle selling ADF has some "point and drop and the page is built" app? - ADF Enterprise Methodology Group

Message from discussion Is Oracle selling ADF has some "point and drop and the page is built" app?
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:58:34 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Is Oracle selling ADF has some "point and drop and the page is built" 
	app?
From: Ajay Koranne <akora...@gmail.com>
To: ADF Enterprise Methodology Group <adf-methodology@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am on my 3rd ADF 11g project. One thing I learned in my 2 years with
ADF, is the demo and basic tutorials provided by Oracle don't do
justice to the potential of ADF.

When I started ADF, I felt like a complete idiot. Add to that lack of
proper documentation and samples and I was pulling my hair. Anyways,
after getting over that mountain of hurdle I became a convert to ADF.
I realize the potential of it. And I was ecstatic, when I heard Oracle
bought Weblogic. I could see endless potential then, especially now
that Oracle owns Java know! Throw in Webcenter and the various
integration capabilities (OBIEE, ODI, BAM, BPEL, PeopleSoft,
JDEdwards, SAP, Portal & SOA) and I am really excited for the future.

In my view ADF 11g is a complete paradigm shift. Its is very close to
the shift, going from C to Java.

I was one of the few lucky ones! The first project on ADF, the CTO
made it a point that all got the training. Also we followed proper
SDLC and CMM steps. And the project was a huge success.

But, I see the sales division do a dis-service to ADF. Is Oracle
selling ADF has a some "point and drop and the page is ready"? In rush
for sales, is it sold without telling customers what would be needed
for ADF?

I am noticing that the clients, some how seem to think, that you can
just drag a component on to the page and the page is ready to go. Some
how its okay to bring a newbie and he/she should be able to produce
good ADF application in no time. They never realize that to be a good
ADF developer that you first need to be a good Java developer and a
good web developer.

I see developers struggling mightly. And the clients refuse to give
them training and add crazy time lines and you have a classic case of
failed project. Throw in incompetent managers (.Net background,
thinking Java should work just like .Net) and I see a classic recipe
for disaster.

What is the right way to start an ADF project? What should the
recommended qualifications for an ADF resource be? Can anyone comment?
Can we have a discussion?  Can others chime in with there hardships?

Thanks,
--ajay