Is Oracle selling ADF has some "point and drop and the page is built" app? - ADF Enterprise Methodology Group

Message from discussion Is Oracle selling ADF has some "point and drop and the page is built" app?
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:43:53 +0100
From: Grant Ronald <grant.ron...@oracle.com>
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To: adf-methodology@googlegroups.com,
        Steven Davelaar <steven.davel...@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: [ADF Enterprise Methodology Group] Is Oracle selling ADF has
 some "point and drop and the page is built"  app?
References: <96d340ea-2ff9-4992-a582-423ce3a0e6aa@p21g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <96d340ea-2ff9-4992-a582-423ce3a0e6aa@p21g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Interesting comments. I suppose we have a balancing act in terms of how 
we "sell" ADF.

One one side there are alot of people saying e.g. "Apex is easy" ", "Why 
can't it be like Forms" "Java is complicated" and for these people an in 
depth explanation of the full power of ADF is not going to cut it.  
Hence we have have presentations/collateral/training for the "ADF for 
Forms Developers" and "Fusion Developer with no Java".  And if you look 
at the up and coming ODTUG agenda you will see a couple of these 
sessions as well as hands-on tutorials.

Equally, we have sessions like Binding Internals, ADF Faces deep dive 
sessions and I've always loved Steven Davelaar's ADF Faces lifecycle 
presentation.  So we are certainly not hiding how deep you can sometimes 
get with the technology.

Furthermore, we've also try to show the full power of ADF through some 
of the "Fusion" presentations where we cover the whole Fusion 
development platform (SOA, Java, ADF, Web Center etc) and how the 
technology fits into the "big picture".

Personally alot of my effort is trying to show the ease of how you 
develop, but I'd never expect an application to be developed without 
knowledge of the platform, the language and the technology.  However, 
what we do try to show is that not everyone in your organization has to 
know all the details about all of these technologies.

Regards
Grant



Ajay Koranne wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am on my 3rd ADF 11g project. One thing I learned in my 2 years with
> ADF, is the demo and basic tutorials provided by Oracle don't do
> justice to the potential of ADF.
>
> When I started ADF, I felt like a complete idiot. Add to that lack of
> proper documentation and samples and I was pulling my hair. Anyways,
> after getting over that mountain of hurdle I became a convert to ADF.
> I realize the potential of it. And I was ecstatic, when I heard Oracle
> bought Weblogic. I could see endless potential then, especially now
> that Oracle owns Java know! Throw in Webcenter and the various
> integration capabilities (OBIEE, ODI, BAM, BPEL, PeopleSoft,
> JDEdwards, SAP, Portal & SOA) and I am really excited for the future.
>
> In my view ADF 11g is a complete paradigm shift. Its is very close to
> the shift, going from C to Java.
>
> I was one of the few lucky ones! The first project on ADF, the CTO
> made it a point that all got the training. Also we followed proper
> SDLC and CMM steps. And the project was a huge success.
>
> But, I see the sales division do a dis-service to ADF. Is Oracle
> selling ADF has a some "point and drop and the page is ready"? In rush
> for sales, is it sold without telling customers what would be needed
> for ADF?
>
> I am noticing that the clients, some how seem to think, that you can
> just drag a component on to the page and the page is ready to go. Some
> how its okay to bring a newbie and he/she should be able to produce
> good ADF application in no time. They never realize that to be a good
> ADF developer that you first need to be a good Java developer and a
> good web developer.
>
> I see developers struggling mightly. And the clients refuse to give
> them training and add crazy time lines and you have a classic case of
> failed project. Throw in incompetent managers (.Net background,
> thinking Java should work just like .Net) and I see a classic recipe
> for disaster.
>
> What is the right way to start an ADF project? What should the
> recommended qualifications for an ADF resource be? Can anyone comment?
> Can we have a discussion?  Can others chime in with there hardships?
>
> Thanks,
> --ajay
>
> >
>