Jsut a general question...

...but you know all those people that don't read the Guidleines, the
FAQ, the posting tips etc...

...that don't bother looking at the other 5 topics with almost
identical titles...

...can we not jsut ask them to go read that stuff then come back and
ask?
(I now fully appreciate why some posters give short sharp remarks...
and some of you have been doing this for years?)

-
-
-

Additionally...
...how do you handle those people that seem to refuse the accept the
problems poitned out to them and insist 'well the sites I buily years
ago / before / other sites / all work fine'...
?

There's always going to be a number of people who won't read the FAQs
or search for their particular issue.  There's a certain justification
in that browsing through most FAQ files is painfully boring and often
futile exercise.  And searching a forum dedicated to a subject of
which you have limited knowledge is equally frustrating.  Its like the
old joke "how can I look up how to spell a word in the dictionary if I
can't spell it in the first place?"  If you don't know the jargon, its
very difficult to find an answer here.

My outlook is that its counterproductive and largely a waste of time
to chastise posters who are looking for answers that those of us with
some experience could find easily in the FAQs or by searching.  Doing
so contributes to a more hostile atmosphere, doesn't help the poster,
and the implied message never reaches other users who might also skip
using those resources.  Some people respond to such posts with such a
terse, cryptic, acronym-filled
barb or rant that it's like their ISP was charging them by the
keystroke.

You can always simply not respond to any post here.  In fact, that's
often the best choice - even in mid-thread.

On May 16, 10:19 am, Autocrat wrote:

In general, I think most posters act in a genuine and sincere way.
Many are coming for the first time.

It is part and parcel of providing a Help Desk service that not every
question will be interesting, fresh, etc.

I think we should all just comment when we want to and when we do, in
a way that will be most helpful.

Sometimes that means leaving the question for someone else to answer.

Sometimes it means responding with something like:-

See: google.com/yadda-yadda-yadda

But I don't think it serves any good purpose to "tell them off".

I once took my car to a tyre-fitter and said "I have a nail in the
tyre of one of my back wheels, not sure which.  Can you repair or
replace it?"

The mechanic was very rude because he could not believe that I could
not remember if it was on the left or the right.

I did not feel like a "cared for customer"!

And how many times have you been to a supermarket/store and asked an
assistant "Which shelf is the ... on?" only to be told that it's right
behind you or you just walked past it?

Robbo

PS Autocrat, slow down! Don't burn out!  We want you still here this
time next year!  :-)

How do we posters handle people who make assumptions and apparantly
just jump off the deep end ?

Autocrat, I feel your frustration, believe me I do.

Part of it stems from the UI of Google groups basically.  Many
questions have been answered thousands of times but those just float
to the bottom never to be seen again.  You could try saving them in
your favorits by starring them, only to have that list magically
purged occaisionally.

The Googlers did a good job of putting together a FAQ list some time
ago, but editing and adding to that has been abandoned.  I still say
that the easiest way to stifle the frequently annoying questions is to
make someone have to read the FAQ before being able to join the group,
however that has not been instituted at all.  I mean it's pretty darn
hard to miss the FAQ when you first enter the group (http://www.jlh-
design.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/google-webmaster-help-google-
groups.png) but yet people do.

We started are own manned FAQ site a while back but that lost steam.
I'd love to see a sticky here that had links to very important threads
and answers mainly by Googlers, but that has also not been instituted.

I stored all the FAQ in a Google Notebook shared application so people
could quickly cut-n-paste the FAQ with links, but that also did not
gain any momentum.

So the long and the short of it is this, all of these concerns have
been brought up before, lots of suggestions have been made, some
instituted, others not, and yet the same frustration exists.  But
believe me when I say things are much better now than they were
before.  JohnMu and others participate a lot more than before,
tackling the tough and easy questions better than ever.  They've
acknowledged a lot of peoples hard word in more ways than one.  We
don't know how many people are actually reading the FAQ and not asking
the same question 30 times a day (though I wish they'd add something
about sitelinks!!!!!) We've got an escalate feature if some of the
more experienced posters think a particular thread needs Googler
attention now that didn't exist before.

My number 1 concern is that information here be accurate and I think
steps have also been made to make that true.

After a while I think you'll find that you will learn to ignore 99% of
the people coming in here wondering why using link: in google doesn't
show the link from the blog that they bought a link on yesterday or
how can they get those nice links under their domain name like
microsfoft has.  If everyone ignored them, they'd eventually search
for the answer.  Another thing that you'll pick up is how to judge if
the person is going to actually come back and read the response,
because nothing is more frustrating than writing a long thought out
answer only to never see a response.  Clues to this are short
questions (no time invested in it) or people that try to leave an
email address.   People to avoid are also ones that don't know enough
to actually form a reasonable question like, "How can I make my site
rank better?" No specifics, no keywords, no metrics, just BETTER.

Oh well, I'd say you can also take solace in the fact that if you are
getting frustrated that means that you are personally invested and
that it matters to you.  To which I say, WELCOME, to the group of
regulars, and I'm glad you are amongst us.

On May 16, 10:19 am, Autocrat wrote:

...Robbo... & ...RainboRick
You're both right really - I shouldn't get so worked up over it...
but don't you find it juat the slightest bit worrying/annoying/tiring
that day in and day out it's often the same problem with the same sort
of responses?

.

...Padaxes...
How do posters handle people who make assumptions that they are the
ones being spoken about?
:D

If you feel slighted or misunderstand, you simply respond and clarify.

You'll find that in almost all instances, people are more than fair.
(in some cases (as shown above), they are even nicer than I am!)

.
.

I think I'm going to go for the 'Canned Responses'.
It's more than inefficient typing the same thing for every 4th person
becasue they didn't look at (or couldn't find) something that related.

I'll get it finished tonight... and post it tonight/tomorrow.
If others want to make use of it for reporting, feel free 9should help
save some time/effort and lend a trend of 'formation' to responses.

There will be similar questions asked all the time, as it's different
people learning - we all have to start somewhere. To chastise what you
see as 'obvious' questions is like a seasoned driver beeping a learner
who has large L plates on their car. We were are learners once and
have all asked stupid questions, not read guidelines, etc. I learnt
the most from those who were kind enough to politely point me in the
right direction.

On May 16, 4:56 pm, Autocrat wrote:

Hi Auto

On the whole I do boycott them ;-) - but there are people who arrive
here and don't appreciate there are other, more appropriate Groups to
post in and are grateful for a steer.

Equally, there will always be people who post, convinced that they are
right and Google is wrong and just seeking validation for their pov.
Sometimes I can get a little testy with these people, but it's the
blame culture - it happens in every sphere, the refusal to accept that
you may be at fault and you can't blame someone else for your failure.

The assumption that everyone is entitled to have their site returned
well, however poor it is, can be annoying, mostly because they don't
respect the priceless advice they are given here or understand the
huge depth of knowledge on offer.

You give an awful lot of time and put in a great deal of effort here,
Auto, and you're obviously helping a lot of people. Don't let the
other sort get to you, nil carborundum illegitimi.

Becky

I was worried that you were suggesting that somehow you boycott lazy
answers to repetitive questions...

...JellyBean...
As with the views of both ...Robbo... and ...RainboRick..., I believe
you have the general 'right' of it... and it's jsut me being overly
negative towards such things.

That said, I very much doubt any of us went in and didn't bother
looking before posting questions - and that's what has got me so
roiled (has done for the past Month).
It really does trigger something when there are several posts
going ...
'not indexed',
'Google won't index my site',
'site not getting indexed'
...all with answers...
only for a 4th/5th to walk in and ask almost exactly the same thing.

I think the best I've seen is JLH.
I was wondering how comes the replies were short/terse/sharp etc...
and I get a damned good idea why now (how long has he been here?)

.

I guess at the end of the day, I'm just not as nice/forgiving/
understanding as some (nod towards robbo/rainborixk/jellybean)... it
seems some people just don't get as riled.

Not that's not me saying ...beckysharpe... isn't nice ;)
Bless you for being so sweet :)

.

...MrKappa...
I had to read that three times :D
No, I'm not suggesting boycotting lazy replies to repetitive
questions... I'm actually considering adopting that stance :)